Why not the WRX? Options

[fiid]

I already have two subaru motors in my garage. If I get rid of one, my GF might allow another one in, but she won't park her miata on the street - so you'll have to wait until mine's done.

I recommend getting the WRX motor instead of the Twin turbo... the plumbing for the two turbos just creates extra work, and you can get the same hp out of the single turbo one anyway if you up the boost a little. Plus the single turbo engine is half the cost.

I have the EDIS system up and running and talking to the megasquirt. It's pretty funny how much voltage drop I get on my bench-top PC power supply (I just use it for powering test circuits) when you hook a full ignition system up to it.

I have decided not to flip the intake manifold - it's too hard to get the injectors to clear all the oil plumbing for the turbos - I am planning on getting a big U fitting for the main intake and mounting the intercooler somewhere towards the front. The plumbing for all this will be quite interesting :-)

I don't know yet if the sump depth is going to be a problem or not. I'l sure we can figure something out if it does turn out to the a problem.

More info as I come up with it.

Fiid.

[Brett W]

I found a couple of pictures of the bare engine in an Import magazine that I had here. DOean't look like any problem to fit in the 914. I can easily weld up an oil pan out of aluminum that would have a thickness of 2-4 inches. That should get the clearence up enough.

FIID,

Why did you not just run the factory ECU and injection?

[soloracer]

Most would like to use the stock ECU. However, not many of the engine importers take the time to properly remove the wiring harness and ECU. Most of them just cut the harness and use a cutting torch to remove the engine.

[Mueller]

I have not spoken to Eric in a while, not sure if he still has his Subaru powered 914 or not.....if so, I'm sure the WRX or similar motor would be next on his list of Subaru powerplants (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

stuffing Subaru engines into a 914....

The oil pan on the flat 6 subaru motor does look pretty deep, but nothing that cannot be "fixed" (1st picture) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

It's hard to see from the second picture, but it does not look like the pan drops down too far.....I like the skid ramps he put on the mount

(IMG:http://etischer.com/914xt/DSC01404.jpg)

(IMG:http://etischer.com/914xt/DSC01563.jpg)

[Brett W]

Thanks mike

Yeah that oil pan would be no problem to fix. Just cut the bottom off and make it thinner and wider.

Wonder why he used the six instead of the four.?

[biosurfer1]

he did both...check out his web site and he goes through what it takes to do both.

[Mueller]

Wonder why he used the six instead of the four.?

Like Biosurfer mentioned, he did both, first with a turbo 1.8, then the six......college student, needed a reliable conversion that could be done quickly.......I'm sure he couldv'e done the higher output /4 motor, it was just not in his budget at the time......

now the new 3.0 six in the Outlanders or whatever they are called seems like a neat powerplant, but then you've got the extra weight to deal with.....


I guess it's a trade off as usual...

heavy but "simple" normally asperated 6????
or
lighter but more expensive/complicated turbo /4????

[fiid]

FIID,

Why did you not just run the factory ECU and injection?

For the last time - Have you ever seen a factory fuel injection brain with all the wires cut one foot from the box??

It has like 80 wires hanging out of it. They are all pretty colours. Some of the sensor wires are shielded. Some of them might be for the security system, air conditioning system, power steering, ABS, etc.

I could spend hours and hours pouring over wiring diagrams trying to decode what each of those is and hook it up to something sensible.

Or I could spend very few hours getting a megasquirt running, during which I might actually learn something useful, and have a lot more fun.

Plus, when the megasquirt system is done, I can jack a laptop into it to diagnose problems, and do further tuning. With the stock ECU, I have no options for diagnosis or tuning. In fact - most of the subaru tuners run aftermarket systems for this exact reason. The stock system might not even run correctly without sensor inputs from the other systems.

There are pics in the other thread.

[fiid]

I don't think the stock stuff is a great solution. These motors are abused a little bit, not all the hoses and plastic pieces make it from Japan complete. Plus they are from Japenese luxury cars. They have lots of gadgets, ABS, advanced noise and pollution control systems.

They have very sophisticated solenoid systems for boost control, boost dumping valves and the like. It is not acceptable to have a blow off valve on a luxury car, so these edge cases are handled extremely elegantly but in a very sophiticated manner. Sure, it is possible to get all this stuff running, but I am after a far more "grit in teeth" experience from my car, and likelyhood is that these control systems aren't designed for peak peak performance anyway.

I'm really not interested in most of that stuff - and most of it doesn't happen in 914s. You really want something more simple and understandable that can be gotten running in a reasonably small amount of time. The megasquirt harness is going to be a breeze to manufacture using the stock pieces I have.

[d914]

there are also aftermarket computers, maps and simpified harnesses for the sand rail guys. Much easier for those of ten thumb liniage...

[fiid]

Most of the aftermarket solutions I have considered run you 2 large dead presidents or more.

The Megasquirt has cost me uh .... $300 or so with the EDIS setup. Mueller helped a lot by turning that hub up for me for the crankfire trigger. I will spend some money on ancillary crap like plug leads and such, but you'd need that with an aftermarket solution anyway.

The megasquirt on my 1.7 continues to run pretty damned well. It could use a little more time with the oxygen sensor, but I am investing my time in hooking up the new engine. I would also like to lose the AAR, MPS (weight), rehost the fuel pump area, replace the injector seals, and lose the decel valve, but none of those things seem to really be holding the car up any.

[d914]

keep doing all the research, I'm sure I'll buy you a beer or two after I pick your brain on all your secrets.

[phantom914]

From the centerline of the crank they are 4 inches deeper to the bottom of the sump than the 914 motor. A better fit is the Mazda V-6. Steve

Steve,

Would you know how well the Mazda V-6 would fit from experience? I have one as well as the ECU and this is what I planned on putting in a 914 when I get one. I haven't had a chance to take measurements of a 914, but since I have an engine on a stand, it would be easy to measure the engine dimensions.


Anyone,

Would anyone know what critical dimensions to measure on my engine to know if it would fit nicely in a 914 (remember, I don't have a 914 to measure myself)? Also, I wonder about oil supply problems with a front drive engine that is mounted longitudinally. Are there any issues there like when going up or down hills?

Andrew

[MattR]

The oil is under pressure, gravity shouldn't matter.

I have a friend with an 03 wrx, and he has driven it pretty hard, and I can honestly say I dont like the power band. It feels like there is NOTHING until 3k. You have to be pretty rough with your engine to get good 0-60 times. It has a good turbo from the factory, but it doesnt pull as much as a toyota turbo, I dont think. Certainly you can do stuff to the engine to make it better, but Im saying from the factory, that 250 hp is a bit decieving. Go to www.wrxfanatics.com if you want info on modifying your wrx engine.

[phantom914]

The oil is under pressure, gravity shouldn't matter.

I meant that maybe the design of the oil pan/baffling or the oil pickup tube location might depend on whether the engine is mounted longitudinally or transversely. Is it posssible that if the engine is rotated to an orientation that it wasn't designed for that the oil pickup tube would be located in a spot that would be starved for oil in some situations?

Is this a non-issue? I hope so, but I would like to know for sure.

Andrew

[Mueller]

Would anyone know what critical dimensions to measure on my engine to know if it would fit nicely in a 914

figure that pretty much any engine smaller or the same size as a Chevy V8 minus the waterpump will fit in the engine compartment of a 914...

BTW...the Mazda V6 in a 914 has already been done...the guy used the V6 from a Ford Probe GT which is the same engine...

Don't know who owns it now, the guy had the complete car for sale for about $800.00.....as far as conversions go, it's a funky engine that not too many people know, so it's going to be very hard to resell....
Steve Malm put a 300ZX V6 in his car, but the Nissan is a more popular brand and seems more "acceptable" for a conversion (that and the car was fast and sounded awesome !!!!)

[phantom914]

OK. Makes sense. It's just that somebody mentioned a Suburu motor might be a problem, and it is certainly smaller than a V8.

I know the engine isn't well known, but I am very familiar with it. I'm not worried that it won't re-sell, since I plan on keeping it a long time.

Andrew

[BravoHotel]

I am looking at the Mazda V-6 concept as we speak. The KL motor from the Probe GT, MX-6, etc is an awesome little engine....4-cam, all aluminum, factory forged crank, 4 bolt mains, and only weighs about 60lbs more than the Type-4. The US version (KL) puts out appx 160 hp stock w/ about the same peak torque...and the torque line is FLAT. The JDM version (KL-ZE) has higher compression (10.0 to 1) bigger intake runners, etc and puts out 195 to 200hp stock...and you can pick them up w/ 50K miles from the Jap engine importers for about $1000.

There is some development in-work for an intake w/ individual throttle bodies that should easily take the power (of the KL-ZE) into the 220's w/out having to do anything internally to the motor.

check it out: http://rs-productions.com/RSP_Motors/tech/.../sae-920677.htm

[Mueller]

I'm familiar with the Probe GT with the V6...in fact I preferred the GT of mine over an '84 911 that I almost traded it for.......

Very fun and quick car.......that motor loved to rev !!!!!

[phantom914]

It can handle 300HP with stock internals, more with different rods and pistons,with a redline of around 8000 (officially only 7000).

Wait a minute, isn't this thread about the WRX engine? We never get off topic around here, do we? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Now about my ex-girlfriend.................


Andrew