Why not the WRX? Options

[d914]

A couple of bits from the new edition of Ludvigsen's "Excellence Was Expected". These are relevant to some recent threads I've seen around here.

Engine weights: Ludvigsen lists the 914-6 engine's weight as 387 lbs, and says that it was 110 lbs heavier than the 914-4's engine. Which would put the latter at 277 lbs.

from DD

[airsix]

I gotta bump this thread. It's my new facination. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There seems to be quite a bit of interest in this swap. We ought to document the process and turn it into a how-to. With each passing hour I'm getting further sold on the idea of doing this swap myself. Hmmm......

-Ben

[Mueller]

Hey Ben.....

it is temting isn't it????

I talked to Fiid about a real, real crazy idea (for most people, it's a normal thought process for me, LOL)

I can only have 1 914, but why can I not have 2 powerplants???

A good running 2.0 type IV based engine for PCA events which I would still like to partipate in and then a more wild turbo subaru engine for non-PCA events and possibly daily driving.....

With quick disconnect fittings for fluids and electricals, this could be a solution to a problem that regular people don't have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

The radiator fluid could be drained and reused or even left in the system....the additional weight should not be a big deal since it's in the front and low.

I already have a couple of extra sideshifter transmissions looking for mate, so that is no problem....now I just need to "sneak" a subaru motor into the garage........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

For fuel and spark, the megasquirt is cheap enough to have one ECU for each engine, or as long as you remember, just download the proper MAP for the particular engine being run that week.

I pick up my next "temporary" engine this week, a poor misunderstood 1.8.......hopefully it'll stay in the car longer than 2 days like my last one...........

[airsix]

Interesting idea... but too much work for my interest. However, the MIC3 ECU I'm running does store two maps. I can just flip a toggle switch on the dash to switch between them. That would make swaping engines back and forth even easier. Nah... If I switched to non-Porsche power I don't think I'd look back. If I jump it'll be with both feet. I have quite a bit of the -6 conversion bits gathered and I'm waffling back and forth. Scooby conversion is gaining in the polls though. Less weight, more power, less cost, less mechaninical noise, better economy, real heater, real AC, cheaper future power increases... Oh, look there, it just gained a few more points.

-Ben M.

[Andyrew]

I know you guys will hate this, but what about another megasquirt group buy? I dont know how to obtain them... Anyone have a sight?

I swear one of you guys figure out how much its costing you to do the swap! I mean, come on... You have all these people wondering.

I have no clue what all is involved in it.


Andrew

[d914]

engine 1-3k
link comuputer and harness 1.5
kennedy engr .6
cooling .7
exhaust w/ header 1

some fab work home welder
total $5-7k



Close????

[Mueller]

Andrew:

go here for the Megasquirt...they do thier own group buys every few months........


The might even have kits available right now

Megasquirt

[Mueller]

Pretty darn close Greg....I think it can be done for under $2000 if one is willing to do a lot of thier own work and use as many used/autowrecker parts.

it might not be pretty, but once on the road and running, it can always be spruced up later on......

[Andyrew]

Mike I like that number better!

But how could you do it for so low?
I mean, you have to buy the adapter from kenedy.. 600
Engine is 1k
cooling. Well find a cheep radiator, and some lines.. 200?
What about mounting the engine? What are you guys doing to mount the engine Fiid, John?
Might be able to use the stock computer.. but probably just better to use a megasquirt. soo.. 200 or more for that..
There is an exhust guy that quoted my dad 300 bucks to run a complete exhaust from the back of his turbo.. We will be doing buisness. (and he's running everyone else out of buisness) Soo maybe 500 for a really nice exhaust, but I can do that myself. so X that

600+1000+200+200+random 200 for suplies

2200 Close to your number, Mike..

Man it looks like Im going to need a job... If only I was 18 (then I could work in a shop or anything car related, younger than that, nothing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) )

Andrew

[Mueller]

I based my estimate on the $650 price for the single turbo motor.....

Man it looks like Im going to need a job

i worked at Baskin-Robbins Ice Cream from 16 to almost 18.....chicks love ice cream, LOL

[airsix]

But how could you do it for so low?
I mean, you have to buy the adapter from kenedy.. 600
Engine is 1k

Where is everyone getting this $1k number for the engine? I saw $650. (unless you're talking the twin turbo)

-Ben M.

[Andyrew]

Im talking twin turbo. The twin turbo has better low end hp, because of the smaller turbo's. and i'll be autoxing the car..

So ya.

Andrew

[d914]

1-3 depending on the engine and or how new and or wrs or sti clips starting to show for 7-8 with tranny and brakes.

Total 2-3 for the more talented. higher for more horse and or newer plug and play parts

[Brett W]

If you will heave the stock turbo and piping system out in the street and start from scratch and build a system right, yes it will cost a little more but, you can have a trubo that spools at idle if necessary. I haven't driven a WRX so I don't know about lag but I have a feeling they tried to do away with it. I heard they lose out on the top end turbo not big enough.

Take the turbo I am building for the honda. It is a T3 with a 48 exhaust side and .63 compressor. This little mother should spool really fast and supply a bunch more air than the stock .42 compressor side. Plus the equal length manifold that I am building will help get all that exhaust out so I figure it ought to spool around 2500-3000 rpm, right where it needs to. Run lots of boost and a blow off valve and you really shouldn't have a problem. Oh yeah get an external wastegate also.

I found the 2.0 WRX motor for a little under 700 dollars. I figure for under 4000 you can have one kick ass car. should smoke plenty of things on the road. Then you puke the tranny but hey that can be over come as well.

[Andyrew]

So a small exhaust side on a turbo will allow for quick spool up.. but it is moving more air with a bigger cold side.. How can you get a turbo to spool up fast? Asside from ball bearings..

2.5k-3k. Thats the spool up range, then after that its all spooled up (put simply) and the hp continues to increase or is 2.5-3k your hp range?

Trying to understand what your building..

914 post.. woo hoo (im sick, physically, so im not too excited..)

[Chris914n6]

I think I figured around 4k completed. It's the little things that will add up.
- the fan shroud
$100+ for fans
$100 in radiator hose
$25 in clamps
$25 in heater hose
$150 in a/c lines
$100 in exhaust pieces & generic muffler
$65 for VSS
$20 in wire, relays, fuses, etc.

And a few bucks for the motor mount, shift rod mod and hopefully not to many changes along the way.
You'll replace parts as you go, trust me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I had the Link system at 1500 and the Subie engine at 650.

Just for the record... WORTH EVERY PENNY (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Chris

[Mueller]

Andrew,

I think the twin turbo Subaru motor is not the way to go.....the plumbing is a nightmare and the turbos are oddball units with no real support at all. A single turbo can be built to offer your low end power just as easy if not easier with the way the Subaru is.......the money saved could be used more wisely for other parts of the conversion..........

[Brett W]

" So a small exhaust side on a turbo will allow for quick spool up.. but it is moving more air with a bigger cold side.. How can you get a turbo to spool up fast? Asside from ball bearings..

2.5k-3k. Thats the spool up range, then after that its all spooled up (put simply) and the hp continues to increase or is 2.5-3k your hp range?"

The smaller the turbine side the faster the turbo will spool. Ball bearings are great but until the price comes down they are pretty much out of my budget. The next time you are driving your car watch the tach and you will get a better idea of what rpm you run on the street. This is where you want your turbo to be spooled. Once is it wound up it contiunues to increase HP and torque until the wategate opens and stops the fun. The turbo I am using is a hybrid that will give a fast spool for a good drivablilty and major power in the uper rpms. Too large of a turbine will slow the spool until a later rpm, thus creating the lag that you are concerned about. Fine for front wheel drive drag racing, but not much fun for the street.

I want the turbo fully spooled by 3000-3500 rpms. making the planned 15-18 lbs of boost at the midrange where torque will go through the roof. Yeah I know can't hook front driver, I'll just get em from a roll. 350-400hp should make for an undrivable Civic.

Porsche went to two turbos because ina road racing situation a huge turbo (required to make the big HP) had horrible lag. it is very hard to drive an on/off switch at the limit. With two smaller turbos the transisiton between boost and no boost was much smoother.

I would like to build a twin turbo 914-4 using a couple of really small IHI Rh5b turbos. They will spool really fast. Until there are better heads for the 4 cylinder I won't bother.

[Andyrew]

Mueller, Ya know, I was thinking about this, and I think your right. I could use that extra money for the conversion. Or shipping cost of the engine, or whatever. Plus, when I beef up or get a better trani, a new turbo will support a good nother 100-200 hp. A freeflowing exhaust, and freeflowing intake will allow the turbo to spool quite quickly. So I guess you've convinced me, or ive convinced myself.. Anyone have dino's for the EJ20T and TT engines?? I'd like to see the numbers and where that hp is made.



Chris, Link system? whats that? Whats VVS stand for?
Also, who needs a/c? And a heater? what??


Andrew

[soloracer]

The Link system is a piggyback ECU (I don't believe it is a stand alone but I could be wrong). I would suggest something along the lines of a Haltech E6X or Electromotive product instead. The Haltech even runs the stock Subaru ignition. Both of these are stand alones and in the case of the Haltech it would run you around $1200 US with a wiring harness and sensors.

For dyno sheets do a search for Tony Rigoli Products. I posted the link once here but don't have it saved.