Cheap, simple, non-factory FI solution, parts, etc..., Type IV - This oughta be fun... Options

[Gint]

I've thought about doing a Megasquirt for a while now to replace my carbs. I have a Mallory that works great, so to keep the initial cost down as well as keep it simple, I want to do fuel only, but have an upgrade path available for ignition later. Ideally if this could be done for under $500 that would be fantastic.

So...

What is the easiest, cheapest, most simple solution for induction parts? Throttle bodies, injectors, TPS, etc...? Which MS unit has the flexibility to do fuel now and ignotion later without starting all over again with a different ECU?

Engine is a 2056 that is built on a 1.8 case and heads with a 2.0 crank, rods and P/Cs. Currently running dual Weber 40 IDFs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (my own note: 40 IDF 70 9A, Italy)

[SLITS]

Just buy the TEC 2 Engine Management System I have and you will be ok. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gint]

Just buy the TEC 2 Engine Management System I have and you will be ok. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Tell me what exactly you're talking about and maybe I will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

this is something I've thought about doing later, myself... I have most of the stock FI part, but no MPS, also with a 2056, running 40 IDFs...

[orcadigital]

I am interested too, would love to lose the single 32/36 on my 1.7L parts car and replace it with FI...

[SLITS]

Just buy the TEC 2 Engine Management System I have and you will be ok. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Tell me what exactly you're talking about and maybe I will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Come on Gint .... Electromotive TEC 2 Engine Management System. Uses mostly GM sensors, etc. Total programable engine management .... fuel & ignition.

You could be the "King of Bling"!

[rick 918-S]

This is an important subject as our injection stuff gets old and parts go NLA.

So, I've been thinking about using something off if a Jap 4 cylinder. I think with a little reverse engineering a setup off like a Geo Tracker or one of the Kia engines could work.

[Gint]

Just buy the TEC 2 Engine Management System I have and you will be ok. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Tell me what exactly you're talking about and maybe I will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Come on Gint .... Electromotive TEC 2 Engine Management System. Uses mostly GM sensors, etc. Total programable engine management .... fuel & ignition.

You could be the "King of Bling"!

No idea exactly what you're pimping though. Complete setup, half the parts, etc... But it's probably out of my budget anyway.

Back to the original subject...

Help me figure out what parts to use gang. Who's BTDT?

[banger]

Megasquirt is pretty cheap and easy, and you can use most of the stock parts. On mine, I use the stock injectors, pump, Intake Air Temp, Cylinder Head Temp, and relay board. The manifold pressure sensor is built into Megasquirt, so thats all you need.

[toon1]

No idea exactly what you're pimping though. Complete setup, half the parts, etc... But it's probably out of my budget anyway.

Back to the original subject...

Help me figure out what parts to use gang. Who's BTDT?

I've BTDT! It can easily be done for $500.

If you use MS1 for fueling now you can downoad MS&SE later, this will give you spark and fuel.

Wire harness is about $60( i suggest you go with a new harness).

TPS, $15-20, on the cheap.

It's possible to use the carbs. as TB's and get manifolds with injector ports or go back to the stock induction setup.

A relay board is about $60 suggested but not required

HP fuel pump and regulator are needed.

There are deals on used stuff, you might be able to find an assembled unit for a good price.

Go to the MS forums and check out some of the vendors.

There are lots of options, but it can be done for $500

[McMark]

My thoughts:
The ECU setup is going to eat up most of your budget, so you're going to need to use as many stock components as possible. The TPS is not compatible with any new system. Throttle bodies will be out of your price range, and without a bunch of R&D, stock FI setup will be your best bet.

You're not going to find a 'bolt on' setup since the TPS isn't compatible (as mentioned) and the injectors are low impedance and most new systems use high impedance injectors. You'll need to fabricate your own wiring harness, and I've found that this is the most PITA part of the setup. Wire crimp integrity is important, as well as wire routing and length.

My best recommendation would be to get a 'junker' motor that you can fire on a test stand with the FI setup. Get it all working reliably before you make the swap, then sell the 'junker'. I always hate to see a running car get relegated to the R&D cycle. Things will go wrong and cause problems. Driving your car while you're figuring it out is obviously preferable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Good Luck!

[banger]

Actually with the Megasquirt, the TPS isnt even necessary, you can run without it as well. You could do the whole system for less than $500 is you have access to all the stock FI parts.

[Rotary'14]

Avoid the hassel of building it yourself,, go with a pre-built unit if you don't solder too well.

this place sells them pre made

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasqu...2b053517d64063f

MS1 is the older version of the DIY FI there is less resolution in the maps,, slower CPU

MS2 is the newer version of the above chip,, faster and more memory blah blah.

Both of the above, MS1 & MS2 chips plug into a "motherboard" for the FI. Either version 2.2 or version 3. V3 adds some additional ignition control with an onboard VR sensor.

If you plan on running a Distributor with your CSOB FI,, you can get away with a V2.2 MS1,, this will run fuel only with only a wire to the coil for RPM.

Aside from my lack of patience/success with my super hacked rotary MegaSquirt project,, I do believe it's a good reliable FI system, with a really slick user interface.

-Rob

[charliew]

While you are shopping keep in mind that the coil on plug will be the ultimate ignition. Try to see if that can be brought in at some point. There is nothing that helps more than really good consistent spark and timing control. I too think the fuel is the first but as soon as that is under control the spark should be included and not put aside.

[rick 918-S]

I like McMarks test engine idea. Hey, So am I off my nut to suggest using a modern FI off some 1.8 or 2.0 four banger? Find something with a blown up engine and strip the whole thing off including the injectors. Peel back the harness and strip everything that doesn't make spark or fire an injector... Transfer the guts from the distributor of the donor engine. I bet some crafty 914'r could make their engine run. Retain the test port in the donor harness to read and code errors.

I'm putting a 1300 GTI twin cam Suzuki Swift engine in a 1959 Austin Healey. I stripped the harness of all the crap that doesn't make spark or fire the injectors or run the distributor. I'll let you know if I can get it running. It's a slow process for me. I aalways have too much on my plate.

[sww914]

Junkyard Subaru parts look interesting...

[banger]

Most modern fuel injection systems are tuned to the engine that they were built for. This would make it a bit more difficult to fit to a type 4. Also most newer fuel injection uses a mass air flow meter, instead of manifold pressure. This would mean that you would need to bring the intakes from both sides of the engine together, and feed them through 1 MAF. It could be done, but I think you would spend far more time and money trying to get something from the junk yard to work than to get megasquirt or something similar. Keep in mind that any fuel injection system will need to be tuned, and even a junkyard system may require a $250 programmer, whereas the megasquirt can be programmed with just a pc.

[lotus_65]

what cam are you running?

i've been thinking about this too...

[edwin]

if you have webber manifold then bmw bike throttle boddies work great.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-K100RS-...sQ5fAccessories
k100 throttle boddies. similar spacing to webber and around about 40mm from memory. will flow better than carbs as they have nothing inside them. injector ports built in but injectors will be too small. generaly find something with similar size engine and power to what you have now and you will get cose to the mark. junkyards never charge much for them anyway.
couple of guys here in aus use Gotech efi which has close loop control of fuel system which makes it much less of a hassle tuning. they are a south african company who started doing vw golfs and have a fair following of aircooled stuff now which is handy for base maps.
other brand ecus include Microtech, haltech and autronic. have to give the local produce a good word dont i.
if you run electronic poinst replacement then it is easyish to trigger but crank/cam trigger can be more accurate depending on how it is done.
many options out there.
cheers
edwin

[Gary]

Hey Edwin - do you have the center-to-center spacing and outside diameter? I'd imagine I'd need to find someone with a mill or water cutter to make an adapter plate.