had it running...lost it, kiilled it again Options

[nycchef]

was trying to time my engine (2.0 weber 40's), had already set the dwell (45.5), when suddenly it stalled. seems i turned the dizzy to much. now i can't get it to fire, has spark,fuel, reset the points, put the engine @ #1 cyl tdc and put the dizzy in again with the rotor facing approx 11 oclock. am i right that the firing order 1432 starts withb the #1 cyl wire @ 1 oclock and follows clockwise? or is it 11 oclock, if so, what did i do wrong now.
thanks

[neil30076]

was trying to time my engine (2.0 weber 40's), had already set the dwell (45.5), when suddenly it stalled. seems i turned the dizzy to much. now i can't get it to fire, has spark,fuel, reset the points, put the engine @ #1 cyl tdc and put the dizzy in again with the rotor facing approx 11 oclock. am i right that the firing order 1432 starts withb the #1 cyl wire @ 1 oclock and follows clockwise? or is it 11 oclock, if so, what did i do wrong now.
thanks

Rich, 1 4 3 2 is correct, fwiw my #1 is at 1PM - set the gap with dizzy in, not out - and try again

[Cupomeat]

Rich,

As I cannot be sure that your dist drive is set correct, can you identify where TDC is on the motor?

If you can do that, get the dist to mostly be lined up with the #1 plug wire and you should be able to start the car.

They will start with quite a bit of the timing being off, so this sort of "eye balling" of the timing will be sufficient to get it running enough to actually time it.

Now, that being said, it seems funny that if you got it running that you wouldn't be able to start it again. I am sure you twisted the dist back to where you had it started before.

I'd go through the normal diagnostics of engine life (spark, fuel, etc.) before you go looking into your timing. (Also check that you didn't pull the dist out and disingage it from the drive (check if you can turn the rotor))

BTW an inductive timing light is a very quick way to see if you have a spark as it will light when a high current burst is sent down the wire.

Good luck

[nycchef]

Rich,

As I cannot be sure that your dist drive is set correct, can you identify where TDC is on the motor?

If you can do that, get the dist to mostly be lined up with the #1 plug wire and you should be able to start the car.

They will start with quite a bit of the timing being off, so this sort of "eye balling" of the timing will be sufficient to get it running enough to actually time it.

Now, that being said, it seems funny that if you got it running that you wouldn't be able to start it again. I am sure you twisted the dist back to where you had it started before.

I'd go through the normal diagnostics of engine life (spark, fuel, etc.) before you go looking into your timing. (Also check that you didn't pull the dist out and disingage it from the drive (check if you can turn the rotor))

BTW an inductive timing light is a very quick way to see if you have a spark as it will light when a high current burst is sent down the wire.

Good luck

i thought the rotor was to face approx 11 oclock i will set it to face 1 oclock and see what happens

[turnaround89]

Depends on the distributor if its the original dizzy, then yea, 11 o'clock may be correct(im not sure about that), but we just replaced the distributor on my 1.7L with a brand new one and TDC on the new dizzy was nowhere near the old one.

do what cupomeat mentioned, thats how we got my car firing after the new dizzy was put in. find tdc on the fan, make sure its TDC on the combustion cycle, if you find TDC on the exhuast cycle, it won't ever fire...we did that one on accident.

[nycchef]

Depends on the distributor if its the original dizzy, then yea, 11 o'clock may be correct(im not sure about that), but we just replaced the distributor on my 1.7L with a brand new one and TDC on the new dizzy was nowhere near the old one.

do what cupomeat mentioned, thats how we got my car firing after the new dizzy was put in. find tdc on the fan, make sure its TDC on the combustion cycle, if you find TDC on the exhuast cycle, it won't ever fire...we did that one on accident.

o.ki got it. i could have sworn i had it hooked up at the 11 oclock set up. but suprise i was wrong. so it,s running again, got the dwell up to 47.7, and kinda timed it. the timing mark shows about an inch to the drivers side @ 3200 rpm's or so and jumps a little, but i'll fix that when i get
an extra pair of hands.

new problem though the pass side forward stack on the carbs is spitting fuel. any carb guys out there know how to tune and balance wewber 40,s, i have a syncrometer, pass side stacks both at 10, driver side forward 3, rear 6
it never ends ...does it

[r_towle]

Depends on the distributor if its the original dizzy, then yea, 11 o'clock may be correct(im not sure about that), but we just replaced the distributor on my 1.7L with a brand new one and TDC on the new dizzy was nowhere near the old one.

do what cupomeat mentioned, thats how we got my car firing after the new dizzy was put in. find tdc on the fan, make sure its TDC on the combustion cycle, if you find TDC on the exhuast cycle, it won't ever fire...we did that one on accident.

o.ki got it. i could have sworn i had it hooked up at the 11 oclock set up. but suprise i was wrong. so it,s running again, got the dwell up to 47.7, and kinda timed it. the timing mark shows about an inch to the drivers side @ 3200 rpm's or so and jumps a little, but i'll fix that when i get
an extra pair of hands.

new problem though the pass side forward stack on the carbs is spitting fuel. any carb guys out there know how to tune and balance wewber 40,s, i have a syncrometer, pass side stacks both at 10, driver side forward 3, rear 6
it never ends ...does it

I am scared to tell you how.
Remove drop links.
Sync both carbs at idle.
Should be the same, use idle adjustment screws to make them the same.
Keep idle at around 900.
(I dont want to get you into air bypass screws)

If you can do that..hook up the drop links again.
now, measure with the snyc tool again.
you need to shorten or lengthen the drop links tomake sure the carbs match.
Each time you need to flip the throttle...let it settle at idle, then measure.

Rich

[neil30076]

Depends on the distributor if its the original dizzy, then yea, 11 o'clock may be correct(im not sure about that), but we just replaced the distributor on my 1.7L with a brand new one and TDC on the new dizzy was nowhere near the old one.

do what cupomeat mentioned, thats how we got my car firing after the new dizzy was put in. find tdc on the fan, make sure its TDC on the combustion cycle, if you find TDC on the exhuast cycle, it won't ever fire...we did that one on accident.

o.ki got it. i could have sworn i had it hooked up at the 11 oclock set up. but suprise i was wrong. so it,s running again, got the dwell up to 47.7, and kinda timed it. the timing mark shows about an inch to the drivers side @ 3200 rpm's or so and jumps a little, but i'll fix that when i get
an extra pair of hands.

new problem though the pass side forward stack on the carbs is spitting fuel. any carb guys out there know how to tune and balance wewber 40,s, i have a syncrometer, pass side stacks both at 10, driver side forward 3, rear 6
it never ends ...does it

Rich, when does it spit? Do you have the level set correctly on the carbs and preassure at or below 3psi?
Most likely timing related -mine did like crazy when timing was off- disconnect the throttle linkage, does the 'spit' go away? If it does, reset the linkage and make sure they are in sync - either way they should be around the same - 3 - 6 on the synchrometer.

[r_towle]

Depends on the distributor if its the original dizzy, then yea, 11 o'clock may be correct(im not sure about that), but we just replaced the distributor on my 1.7L with a brand new one and TDC on the new dizzy was nowhere near the old one.

do what cupomeat mentioned, thats how we got my car firing after the new dizzy was put in. find tdc on the fan, make sure its TDC on the combustion cycle, if you find TDC on the exhuast cycle, it won't ever fire...we did that one on accident.

o.ki got it. i could have sworn i had it hooked up at the 11 oclock set up. but suprise i was wrong. so it,s running again, got the dwell up to 47.7, and kinda timed it. the timing mark shows about an inch to the drivers side @ 3200 rpm's or so and jumps a little, but i'll fix that when i get
an extra pair of hands.

new problem though the pass side forward stack on the carbs is spitting fuel. any carb guys out there know how to tune and balance wewber 40,s, i have a syncrometer, pass side stacks both at 10, driver side forward 3, rear 6
it never ends ...does it

Rich, when does it spit? Do you have the level set correctly on the carbs and preassure at or below 3psi?
Most likely timing related -mine did like crazy when timing was off- disconnect the throttle linkage, does the 'spit' go away? If it does, reset the linkage and make sure they are in sync - either way they should be around the same - 3 - 6 on the synchrometer.

10 on one side and 3-6 on the other side is the issue.
Nothing will make that motor runright till you fix this.

Rich

[nycchef]

new problem though the pass side forward stack on the carbs is spitting fuel. any carb guys out there know how to tune and balance wewber 40,s, i have a syncrometer, pass side stacks both at 10, driver side forward 3, rear 6
it never ends ...does it
[/quote]

I am scared to tell you how.
Remove drop links.
Sync both carbs at idle.
Should be the same, use idle adjustment screws to make them the same.
Keep idle at around 900.
(I dont want to get you into air bypass screws)

If you can do that..hook up the drop links again.
now, measure with the snyc tool again.
you need to shorten or lengthen the drop links tomake sure the carbs match.
Each time you need to flip the throttle...let it settle at idle, then measure.

Rich

don't be scared , i'm getting better at this. should i back the screws off and then set them the same before i start? what is causing the one stack to spit fuel? what is the proper reading on the syncrometer (you told me to buy one, it's like saving someones life(or 914) ,you're responsible for it now). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
[/quote]
come to n.y. i need to buy you dinner

[r_towle]

Remove the drop links.
Neither one should be touch the carbs.
Use the idle adjustment screws...the ones that hold the position of the throttle plates...
Get that set right.

Spitting can be alot of things...way to much fuel is a start...
Get them down...3-6 is normal...but they ALL need to match.

Each motor is different. Are your valves all adjusted?
This has little to do with ignition, and more to do with valves and air intake speed etc.

Get them down at the exact same number....then make the cross bar linkage keep it that way...that is the basic idea.

Start with no cross bar linkage. I know you are lazy..I will explain.
The simple weight of the cross bar linkage on the throttle plates will screw up the reading.
So, when I say NO drop links...Imean both sides.
Rich

[r_towle]

For some this is a pain in the ass.
For me, I enjoy it..

Learn to love getting it to run perfect.
Dwell should be 48-52...nothing else will do.
Timing should be perfect.
Idle should be perfect
Carbs should (and will) sync up perfect.
If you dont sync the carbs, one side of the car is running with more air and fuel than the other...and you will feel it.

Rich

[nycchef]

For some this is a pain in the ass.
For me, I enjoy it..

Learn to love getting it to run perfect.
Dwell should be 48-52...nothing else will do.
Timing should be perfect.
Idle should be perfect
Carbs should (and will) sync up perfect.
If you dont sync the carbs, one side of the car is running with more air and fuel than the other...and you will feel it.

Rich

then perfect it will be. so the timing mark be at exacty 12 oclock and still correct?

[SGB]

Rich is right. When it all comes together (valve adjust, timing, and synchronized fuel delivery), the engine will want to REV, not fight itself.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[nycchef]

Rich is right. When it all comes together (valve adjust, timing, and synchronized fuel delivery), the engine will want to REV, not fight itself.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

progress got the timing right, and the dwell @48.3 the spitting has stopped. not as much luck with balancing the carbs, with the linkage off the pasenger side was down to 6,idles but i can't keep the idle and it stalls, idles better @ 10 and the driver side rear stack got down to 5 , but the forward stack pops and reads @ 1 or not at all. popping means lean , am i right?. valves were done twice before the engine went in, i don't hear any clacking, i think they';re o.k
getting closer to perfect

[neil30076]

Rich is right. When it all comes together (valve adjust, timing, and synchronized fuel delivery), the engine will want to REV, not fight itself.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

progress got the timing right, and the dwell @48.3 the spitting has stopped. not as much luck with balancing the carbs, with the linkage off the pasenger side was down to 6,idles but i can't keep the idle and it stalls, idles better @ 10 and the driver side rear stack got down to 5 , but the forward stack pops and reads @ 1 or not at all. popping means lean , am i right?. valves were done twice before the engine went in, i don't hear any clacking, i think they';re o.k
getting closer to perfect

Rich, make sure the inlet manifold bolts are tight, also the carb to manifold - 1 is like no 'suck' or major leak - otherwise sounds like the carbs need another going over - I had to do it 3 times to get mine right on - give me a call - you have my #..

[turnaround89]

do you have good gaskets, that will definitely lead to leaking carbs, my carbs starting making a whistling sound when the gaskets went bad, changed them and no more whistle from air being sucked through underneath the carb.

[nycchef]

do you have good gaskets, that will definitely lead to leaking carbs, my carbs starting making a whistling sound when the gaskets went bad, changed them and no more whistle from air being sucked through underneath the carb.

sounds like a plan, thought i heard a whiste earlier today, will tighten everything down and try to balance again. check the gaskets as well.it's drivable now.my wife seems to think i enjoy working on the car more than driving it. she may have a point

[r_towle]

1 means you have a leak.
Find the leak, stop running it like that...
you are running that cylinder with very little fuel and very lean.

Rich

[nycchef]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) You dumbass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Don't you love these cars 1 step forward and 10 steps back.

I thought you were on your way. OK here's the deal. We are going to need 3-4 hours this weekend. To get that heap on the road again. Let me know what your schedule is. I'll bring my spares. We will get you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Now the only reason I am helping out is because I'm tired of driving to Jersey. I need another 914 close by.

wow i can feel the love, scott, can clear my schedule most of sunday. maybe all
i will tighten down the carbs tomorrow a.m., check the gaskets, any other places that may cause a leak?