914 = formidable!, keeps up with the newer stuff just fine |
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914 = formidable!, keeps up with the newer stuff just fine |
mskala |
Jun 23 2009, 09:28 PM
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#1
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R Group: Members Posts: 1,925 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 79 Region Association: None |
Autocross last weekend, check out top 20, 914's can hold their
own against a bunch of more modern stuff. Top 2 are highest HP car there and lowest HP car there (another 914 DNF mech problem). CODE [font=Courier New] CLASS CAR AM PM TOTAL DIFF CUM --------------------------------------------------------------- 1 ASP 2002 Corvette Z06 78.681 77.853 156.534 0.000 0.000 2 II3 1970 914-6 79.317 79.836 159.153 2.619 2.619 3 P7 1998 Boxster 81.243 81.497 162.740 3.587 6.206 4 MM5 964 carrera cup 84.013 79.599 163.612 0.872 7.078 5 CSP 2000 Mazda Miata 84.212 82.843 167.055 3.443 10.521 6 AS 2005 Lotus Elise 84.500 82.995 167.495 0.440 10.961 7 FP 2001 Honda S2000 84.106 83.767 167.873 0.378 11.339 8 MM4 1970 911 85.355 82.614 167.969 0.096 11.435 9 P7 2001 Boxster 85.181 83.226 168.407 0.438 11.873 10 ES 1994 Mazda Miata 85.718 83.894 169.612 1.205 13.078 11 II6 1997 993 turbo 87.178 84.051 171.229 1.617 14.695 12 SS7 2007 Cayman 85.350 86.943 172.293 1.064 15.759 13 BSP 2001 Honda S2000 87.039 86.330 173.369 1.076 16.835 14 P2 1987 944 87.397 86.239 173.636 0.267 17.102 15 STS 1992 Mazda Miata 88.574 85.441 174.015 0.379 17.481 16 CSP 1990 BMW 325is 88.193 85.862 174.055 0.040 17.521 17 P2 1989 944 87.724 88.572 176.296 2.241 19.762 18 CSP 1999 Mazda Miata 88.819 87.597 176.416 0.120 19.882 19 SSM 1990 Mazda Miata 89.801 86.976 176.777 0.361 20.243 20 P6 1984 Carrera 89.510 87.569 177.079 0.302 20.545 (non-SCCA classes are porsche-club specific) |
grantsfo |
Jun 27 2009, 09:05 AM
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#2
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
What SCCA class does II3 equate to? My expereince with 914's says they are out classed in most SCCA classes unless large amounts of $$$ are applied.
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mskala |
Jun 27 2009, 09:16 PM
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#3
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R Group: Members Posts: 1,925 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 79 Region Association: None |
There's no direct cross class for any of those, but that's not really what I
was trying to say. Basically, looking even at raw times, you can take a 914 with 110 hp and just stiffer suspension, and have a good showing vs. the 'modern sports cars' which have decades of suspension, chassis, and engine power advancement. Some cars were mostly stock, but some looked very prepared, and with several slaloms you can beat them. |
J P Stein |
Jun 28 2009, 07:59 PM
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#4
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
There's no direct cross class for any of those, but that's not really what I was trying to say. Basically, looking even at raw times, you can take a 914 with 110 hp and just stiffer suspension, and have a good showing vs. the 'modern sports cars' which have decades of suspension, chassis, and engine power advancement. Some cars were mostly stock, but some looked very prepared, and with several slaloms you can beat them. What you say is true.....depending on who shows up.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your car with suspension mods would be, in SCCA,......ASP. Ain't that a kick in the nuts. The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
SirAndy |
Jun 29 2009, 01:02 AM
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#5
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
This may be my last season driving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Then what? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I can already picture it: You watching Britain driving your car from the sidelines, in your rocking chair, shotgun on your knees and a bottle of whiskey in your hand while shouting profanities at the competition ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy |
VaccaRabite |
Jun 29 2009, 08:25 AM
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#6
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,440 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) If you enjoy doing it, why stop? AX is hobby level racing, you likely are not making your living doing it and need to be concerned with sponsors, etc. So long as you are safe on the course, why quit? Zach |
J P Stein |
Jun 29 2009, 10:31 AM
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#7
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) If you enjoy doing it, why stop? AX is hobby level racing, you likely are not making your living doing it and need to be concerned with sponsors, etc. So long as you are safe on the course, why quit? Zach I have given up basketball, football, baseball, golf......when you start just taking up space, it's time to hang up your jock...just my .02. I do like the lawn chair/shotgun idea, Andy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
mskala |
Jun 29 2009, 11:26 AM
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#8
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R Group: Members Posts: 1,925 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 79 Region Association: None |
We have a guy who I think now is 86. Sure he's usually last, but he comes a significant distance to drive his porsche at every event.
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grantsfo |
Jun 29 2009, 02:01 PM
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#9
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
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Brisco914prc |
Jun 30 2009, 09:47 AM
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#10
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 24-September 08 From: San Mateo CA Member No.: 9,586 Region Association: Northern California |
Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage.
But if you want to go fast against similar cars, try vintage racing. An organization like VARA (in Southern California, there are other vintage racing assocs. around the country) lets you compete against comparable cars without the cutthroat driving you see in the SCCA. VARA has strict rules about the changes you can make to your car, and strict rules on the track to keep things safe, and they're focussed more on the racing experience, safety, and having fun then worrying about who crosses the finish line first. VARA is '74 cars and earlier, though if the same model was built shortly after that year they're also allowed, so any year 914 can compete. Of course they require more safety equipment than you usually see on A/X prepared cars, but it's not too costly. Barry Your car with suspension mods would be, in SCCA,......ASP. Ain't that a kick in the nuts. Ouch. New cars 1 ...old 914-6 0 I'd put my money on modern 550 HP ASP GT2 and spot 110 HP 914-6 3 to 4 seconds. |
J P Stein |
Jun 30 2009, 11:33 AM
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#11
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage. Huh??? We got waxed by an ASP car a couple weeks back....it was traumatic. |
grantsfo |
Jun 30 2009, 12:09 PM
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#12
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage. Huh??? We got waxed by an ASP car a couple weeks back....it was traumatic. I think something both JP and I agree on is that 914 in most SCCA classes will be outclassed by modern cars. Its not until you get in Prepared or Modified classes where you have some ability to modify suspension, drivetrain and power signficantly that you can start to have a chance. But bring $$$$. Most PCA classes seem to be a little better for 914's and we know what model Porsche/VW has set TTOD at past two Parades. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) And yes just driving a 914 is great fun, but its even more fun if you can be competitive in your class. |
Randal |
Jul 2 2009, 10:40 AM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE But bring $$$$. Are you saying that other (non-914) people running modified classes in SCCA don't spend tons of money on their cars? If anyone wants to compete in a modified class, regardless of the car, they will be spending lots of money and/or using their natural talents to build a car. Either way it will take a ton of time and/or money to be competitive. A set up and well sorted 914 with big power could be very competitive in SCCA modified classes. |
J P Stein |
Jul 3 2009, 09:20 AM
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#14
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
With few exceptions to be competitive at the top level of SCCA AX in any class....is gonna cost you big bucks. What is compeititive? A couple tenths of the top dog?...a second off, 2 seconds? in the trophy hunt?
In the stock classes you'll need the flavor of the year for a given class + a couple grand for tires & wheels....only to loose to a guy with 5-7 K worth of shocks. Most of these winners are new cars or just a couple years old.....not cheep. The street tire classes are most all newer cars with the exceptions of the "Honda classes". Those are probably the cheapest to run. Step beyond here and it's big bucks. The mod classes are cheaper that something like ASP. Here you need a Lotus, Vette, GT (whatever) Porsche, and a bucket load of money beyond that. I like the mod & prepared hot rod classes. |
BMXerror |
Jul 3 2009, 10:50 AM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 8-April 06 From: Hesperia Ca Member No.: 5,842 |
I just started running with SCCA Solo2 this year. My 1970 1.7 is in D Prepared (not Street Prepared) because my interior is stripped out and my heads are milled .060. Doesn't matter that I'm still pushing less than 100 horsepower, I'm still in DP and I am WAY out classed! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) But oh well. I still show up when I can afford to, have a lot of fun and get my ass handed to me! However, as I continue to develop my car and my driving skills, they'd better watch out, because the 914 has TONS of potential, and I think I do too! Sticky race tires are on the plan for the next couple months, as well as front camber plates and poly bushings. After that it's lots of track time September thru November. We'll see what my placing looks like at the end of this year.
Mark D. |
J P Stein |
Jul 3 2009, 11:49 AM
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#16
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Yes, RTFRB when going SCCA.
I did an engine swap years back and found my self in FP.....that was another of those "Well, since I'm here" moments. Things went down the slippery slope from there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
grantsfo |
Jul 14 2009, 01:49 PM
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#17
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE But bring $$$$. Are you saying that other (non-914) people running modified classes in SCCA don't spend tons of money on their cars? If anyone wants to compete in a modified class, regardless of the car, they will be spending lots of money and/or using their natural talents to build a car. Either way it will take a ton of time and/or money to be competitive. A set up and well sorted 914 with big power could be very competitive in SCCA modified classes. No. What I was saying is that once you go prepped or modified classes youre going to spend big bucks. Even some of the "screwy" street prepped and modified class cars are over $100K In stock classes you can do fine on a set of $3000 to $4000 custom valved shocks and a custom front sway bar. Stock classes are much cheaper to run and if you pick the right car only thing stopping you from being top of your class is your driving ability. Just that 914's arent competitive in stock classes. Its possible to build a National class stock car for under $15K in some classes. Good luck getting close to that in Preped or Modified. CSP MX5's are fairly cheap to build. I followed build on two national level cars and they easily could be done for under $30K if you know what you are doing. If I had my heart set on being class winner on a budget I'd likely go with a C Stock or CSP Miata. E Stock Miatas do well too. EVO's and STI's seem to do well without huge amounts of tuning as well, but they are expensive to get into. 914 wouldnt be car I would chose if National Solo championships were my goal. They are fun cars but unlikely to be class winners unless you throw money at them like the FP class winning 914-6. Suspect that car is close to $125K? I'd buy a GT3 before I spend $100K on a 914. This post has been edited by grantsfo: Jul 14 2009, 01:50 PM |
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