914World.com > 914 = formidable!

mskala

Jun 23 2009, 09:28 PM

Autocross last weekend, check out top 20, 914's can hold their
own against a bunch of more modern stuff. Top 2 are highest HP
car there and lowest HP car there (another 914 DNF mech problem).

CODE

[font=Courier New]
   CLASS    CAR             AM     PM     TOTAL    DIFF    CUM
---------------------------------------------------------------
1  ASP 2002 Corvette Z06 78.681  77.853  156.534  0.000   0.000
2  II3 1970 914-6        79.317  79.836  159.153  2.619   2.619
3  P7  1998 Boxster      81.243  81.497  162.740  3.587   6.206
4  MM5 964 carrera cup   84.013  79.599  163.612  0.872   7.078
5  CSP 2000 Mazda Miata  84.212  82.843  167.055  3.443  10.521
6  AS  2005 Lotus Elise  84.500  82.995  167.495  0.440  10.961
7  FP  2001 Honda S2000  84.106  83.767  167.873  0.378  11.339
8  MM4 1970 911          85.355  82.614  167.969  0.096  11.435
9  P7  2001 Boxster      85.181  83.226  168.407  0.438  11.873
10 ES  1994 Mazda Miata  85.718  83.894  169.612  1.205  13.078
11 II6 1997 993 turbo    87.178  84.051  171.229  1.617  14.695
12 SS7 2007 Cayman       85.350  86.943  172.293  1.064  15.759
13 BSP 2001 Honda S2000  87.039  86.330  173.369  1.076  16.835
14 P2  1987 944          87.397  86.239  173.636  0.267  17.102
15 STS 1992 Mazda Miata  88.574  85.441  174.015  0.379  17.481
16 CSP 1990 BMW 325is    88.193  85.862  174.055  0.040  17.521
17 P2  1989 944          87.724  88.572  176.296  2.241  19.762
18 CSP 1999 Mazda Miata  88.819  87.597  176.416  0.120  19.882
19 SSM 1990 Mazda Miata  89.801  86.976  176.777  0.361  20.243
20 P6  1984 Carrera      89.510  87.569  177.079  0.302  20.545

(non-SCCA classes are porsche-club specific)

grantsfo

Jun 27 2009, 09:05 AM

What SCCA class does II3 equate to? My expereince with 914's says they are out classed in most SCCA classes unless large amounts of $$$ are applied.

mskala

Jun 27 2009, 09:16 PM

There's no direct cross class for any of those, but that's not really what I
was trying to say. Basically, looking even at raw times, you can take a
914 with 110 hp and just stiffer suspension, and have a good showing vs.
the 'modern sports cars' which have decades of suspension, chassis, and
engine power advancement. Some cars were mostly stock, but some
looked very prepared, and with several slaloms you can beat them.

J P Stein

Jun 28 2009, 07:59 PM

QUOTE(mskala @ Jun 27 2009, 08:16 PM)

There's no direct cross class for any of those, but that's not really what I
was trying to say. Basically, looking even at raw times, you can take a
914 with 110 hp and just stiffer suspension, and have a good showing vs.
the 'modern sports cars' which have decades of suspension, chassis, and
engine power advancement. Some cars were mostly stock, but some
looked very prepared, and with several slaloms you can beat them.

What you say is true.....depending on who shows up.

Your car with suspension mods would be, in SCCA,......ASP. Ain't that a kick in the nuts. The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving.

SirAndy

Jun 29 2009, 01:02 AM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 28 2009, 05:59 PM)

This may be my last season driving.

Then what?

I can already picture it:
You watching Britain driving your car from the sidelines, in your rocking chair, shotgun on your knees and a bottle of whiskey in your hand while shouting profanities at the competition ...

Andy

VaccaRabite

Jun 29 2009, 08:25 AM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 28 2009, 08:59 PM)

The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving.

If you enjoy doing it, why stop? AX is hobby level racing, you likely are not making your living doing it and need to be concerned with sponsors, etc. So long as you are safe on the course, why quit?

Zach

J P Stein

Jun 29 2009, 10:31 AM

QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Jun 29 2009, 07:25 AM)

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 28 2009, 08:59 PM)

The prepped guys I run against in our local PCA are workin' at their trade & I'm gettin' slower....they're closing in on the old man. Gettin' old sucks but the alternative is worse. This may be my last season driving.

If you enjoy doing it, why stop? AX is hobby level racing, you likely are not making your living doing it and need to be concerned with sponsors, etc. So long as you are safe on the course, why quit?

Zach

I have given up basketball, football, baseball, golf......when you start just taking up space, it's time to hang up your jock...just my .02.

I do like the lawn chair/shotgun idea, Andy.

mskala

Jun 29 2009, 11:26 AM

We have a guy who I think now is 86. Sure he's usually last, but he comes a significant distance to drive his porsche at every event.

grantsfo

Jun 29 2009, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 28 2009, 06:59 PM)

Your car with suspension mods would be, in SCCA,......ASP. Ain't that a kick in the nuts.

Ouch. New cars 1 ...old 914-6 0

I'd put my money on modern 550 HP ASP GT2 and spot 110 HP 914-6 3 to 4 seconds.

Brisco914prc

Jun 30 2009, 09:47 AM

Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage.

But if you want to go fast against similar cars, try vintage racing. An organization like VARA (in Southern California, there are other vintage racing assocs. around the country) lets you compete against comparable cars without the cutthroat driving you see in the SCCA. VARA has strict rules about the changes you can make to your car, and strict rules on the track to keep things safe, and they're focussed more on the racing experience, safety, and having fun then worrying about who crosses the finish line first.

VARA is '74 cars and earlier, though if the same model was built shortly after that year they're also allowed, so any year 914 can compete. Of course they require more safety equipment than you usually see on A/X prepared cars, but it's not too costly.

Barry

QUOTE(grantsfo @ Jun 29 2009, 01:01 PM)

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 28 2009, 06:59 PM)

Your car with suspension mods would be, in SCCA,......ASP. Ain't that a kick in the nuts.

Ouch. New cars 1 ...old 914-6 0

I'd put my money on modern 550 HP ASP GT2 and spot 110 HP 914-6 3 to 4 seconds.

J P Stein

Jun 30 2009, 11:33 AM

QUOTE(Brisco914prc @ Jun 30 2009, 08:47 AM)

Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage.

Huh???
We got waxed by an ASP car a couple weeks back....it was traumatic.

grantsfo

Jun 30 2009, 12:09 PM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 30 2009, 10:33 AM)

QUOTE(Brisco914prc @ Jun 30 2009, 08:47 AM)

Sure, modern cars can beat 914s in A/X, but so what? The 914 drivers are still having fun. To me it's about the driving experience, not who wins. A/X is a great way to learn how far you can push your car, and when you spin you don't do any damage.

Huh???
We got waxed by an ASP car a couple weeks back....it was traumatic.

I think something both JP and I agree on is that 914 in most SCCA classes will be outclassed by modern cars. Its not until you get in Prepared or Modified classes where you have some ability to modify suspension, drivetrain and power signficantly that you can start to have a chance. But bring $$$$.

Most PCA classes seem to be a little better for 914's and we know what model Porsche/VW has set TTOD at past two Parades.

And yes just driving a 914 is great fun, but its even more fun if you can be competitive in your class.

Randal

Jul 2 2009, 10:40 AM

QUOTE

But bring $$$$.

Are you saying that other (non-914) people running modified classes in SCCA don't spend tons of money on their cars?

If anyone wants to compete in a modified class, regardless of the car, they will be spending lots of money and/or using their natural talents to build a car. Either way it will take a ton of time and/or money to be competitive.

A set up and well sorted 914 with big power could be very competitive in SCCA modified classes.

J P Stein

Jul 3 2009, 09:20 AM

With few exceptions to be competitive at the top level of SCCA AX in any class....is gonna cost you big bucks. What is compeititive? A couple tenths of the top dog?...a second off, 2 seconds? in the trophy hunt?

In the stock classes you'll need the flavor of the year for a given class + a couple grand for tires & wheels....only to loose to a guy with 5-7 K worth of shocks.
Most of these winners are new cars or just a couple years old.....not cheep.

The street tire classes are most all newer cars with the exceptions of the "Honda classes". Those are probably the cheapest to run.

Step beyond here and it's big bucks. The mod classes are cheaper that something like ASP. Here you need a Lotus, Vette, GT (whatever) Porsche, and a bucket load of money beyond that.

I like the mod & prepared hot rod classes.

BMXerror

Jul 3 2009, 10:50 AM

I just started running with SCCA Solo2 this year. My 1970 1.7 is in D Prepared (not Street Prepared) because my interior is stripped out and my heads are milled .060. Doesn't matter that I'm still pushing less than 100 horsepower, I'm still in DP and I am WAY out classed!

But oh well. I still show up when I can afford to, have a lot of fun and get my ass handed to me! However, as I continue to develop my car and my driving skills, they'd better watch out, because the 914 has TONS of potential, and I think I do too! Sticky race tires are on the plan for the next couple months, as well as front camber plates and poly bushings. After that it's lots of track time September thru November. We'll see what my placing looks like at the end of this year.
Mark D.

J P Stein

Jul 3 2009, 11:49 AM

Yes, RTFRB when going SCCA.
I did an engine swap years back and found my self in FP.....that was another of those "Well, since I'm here" moments. Things went down the slippery slope from there.

grantsfo

Jul 14 2009, 01:49 PM

QUOTE(Randal @ Jul 2 2009, 09:40 AM)

QUOTE

But bring $$$$.

Are you saying that other (non-914) people running modified classes in SCCA don't spend tons of money on their cars?

If anyone wants to compete in a modified class, regardless of the car, they will be spending lots of money and/or using their natural talents to build a car. Either way it will take a ton of time and/or money to be competitive.

A set up and well sorted 914 with big power could be very competitive in SCCA modified classes.

No. What I was saying is that once you go prepped or modified classes youre going to spend big bucks. Even some of the "screwy" street prepped and modified class cars are over $100K

In stock classes you can do fine on a set of $3000 to $4000 custom valved shocks and a custom front sway bar. Stock classes are much cheaper to run and if you pick the right car only thing stopping you from being top of your class is your driving ability. Just that 914's arent competitive in stock classes. Its possible to build a National class stock car for under $15K in some classes. Good luck getting close to that in Preped or Modified.

CSP MX5's are fairly cheap to build. I followed build on two national level cars and they easily could be done for under $30K if you know what you are doing.

If I had my heart set on being class winner on a budget I'd likely go with a C Stock or CSP Miata. E Stock Miatas do well too. EVO's and STI's seem to do well without huge amounts of tuning as well, but they are expensive to get into.

914 wouldnt be car I would chose if National Solo championships were my goal. They are fun cars but unlikely to be class winners unless you throw money at them like the FP class winning 914-6. Suspect that car is close to $125K? I'd buy a GT3 before I spend $100K on a 914.