Gated shifer? Options

[Randal]

So what is the difference between the end to end Rennshift and the Wevo?

Guess no one knows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[J P Stein]

Spend some time rootin' around in the guts of a trans and the bits leading up to it . You'll find that by its self the shifter is just something to move these aft bits around and has *little effect in ensuring that they go to the right place*. It's just a lever on a ball. It has adjustments side to side & fore & aft....you want a 500 buck lever, be my guest. The fun starts at the shift console. When ya figure out how/why/why not.... things work , then we can talk.....this would require gettin' dirty.

As I wrote, the JWest console just may be worthwhile. The rest of the stuff is a fishing lure to me.

[SirAndy]

Spend some time rootin' around in the guts of a trans and the bits leading up to it . You'll find that by its self the shifter is just something to move these aft bits around and has *little effect in ensuring that they go to the right place*. It's just a lever on a ball. It has adjustments side to side & fore & aft....you want a 500 buck lever, be my guest. The fun starts at the shift console. When ya figure out how/why/why not.... things work , then we can talk.....this would require gettin' dirty.

Hmmm, interestingly enough, i just drove a bone stock 914/6 with the stock tailshifter the other day.

The guts of the tranny are the same than on mine. Again, according to your logic, my setup with the rennshifter should not have any significant improvement over the stock 914/6 setup.

Even with all new bushings etc. the stock setup felt like stirring a pot of dough. Trying to find a gear in a hurry (think shifting fast at the track) is like playing russian roulette. Sooner or later, you'll find the wrong gear.

I'm sure with enough time and effort, you can come up with a solution that does not involve a JW unit or WEVO unit and then you can brag about how much cheaper you got your setup.
That is, if you don't value your time invested.

To me, the JW setup is a solution to a real problem.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[J P Stein]

Rooting around in a tailshifter leaves me stunned that it works at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
That internal mechanism is Rube Goldberg at his finest.

[HAM Inc]

Shfits in one long track weekend easily go over what a typical AX driver in properly setup AX car would see in 2 years of full schedule of events with 2 drivers.

No doubt! Track use does require a lot of shifting. No idea what the AX guys go through (never done it) but this past weekend at Barber I shifted no less than 15 times/lap. 15 lap race=225 shifts in 30 minutes! I ony flubbed one shift the entire weekend, and that was when my foot slipped off the clutch. Consider that this was a double event with 15minute qualifying sessions and you get the idea that the shift system better be up to snuff.

JP the stock shifter does get the job done, but I'm not sure how you would gate it and that is critical for fast, consistent, and repeatable shifting. Without travel limits along the H you are putting a torsional strain on the long linkage. That contributes to binding and inconsistent shifting, plus missed shifts. Aside from eliminating the need to guide the shifter when going down to 3rd and twisting the linkage when going up to 4th, the gate prevents grabbing 1st when going from 4th to 3rd, or reverse when going straight from 4th to 2nd.

[HAM Inc]

So what is the difference between the end to end Rennshift and the Wevo?

Randall I am only familiar with the JWest linkage. I do not know what the difference is.

[Randal]

Shfits in one long track weekend easily go over what a typical AX driver in properly setup AX car would see in 2 years of full schedule of events with 2 drivers.

No doubt! Track use does require a lot of shifting. No idea what the AX guys go through (never done it) but this past weekend at Barber I shifted no less than 15 times/lap.

No doubt you shift a bunch at the track, but as with all things it's a matter of degree when you compare an autox run to a track session or race. By degree I mean one missed shift at an autox and your finished. On the track this can also be the case, but typically it isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[J P Stein]

DP

[J P Stein]

WEVO does not make a shifter for the 914,901. They do make one for the 911, 901.
Looking at Dr. Gary's WEVO for his 914, 915 it is a very nice piece.

[Randal]

WEVO does not make a shifter for the 914,901. They do make one for the 911, 901.
Looking at Dr. Gary's WEVO for his 914, 915 it is a very nice piece.

What's the weight penalty?

[HAM Inc]

No doubt you shift a bunch at the track, but as with all things it's a matter of degree when you compare an autox run to a track session or race. By degree I mean missed one shift at an autox and your finished. On the track this can also be the case, but typically it isn't.

Yeah that makes sence. I imagine that in a short solo run (AX) you have to be flawless to get TTOD. I got lucky when I flubbed my shift as I wasn't being pressured in the braking zone. If I had, I would have likely lost the position. Sometimes one mistake is all it takes in any form of motorsports.

[J P Stein]

I'm not sure, but I think the 915 is around 25-30 lbs heavier. The 901 is 75-80lbs, surely someone will know the 915 weight. Gary wrote a large check to have that puppy put in his car.

[grantsfo]

No doubt you shift a bunch at the track, but as with all things it's a matter of degree when you compare an autox run to a track session or race. By degree I mean missed one shift at an autox and your finished. On the track this can also be the case, but typically it isn't.

Yeah that makes sence. I imagine that in a short solo run (AX) you have to be flawless to get TTOD. I got lucky when I flubbed my shift as I wasn't being pressured in the braking zone. If I had, I would have likely lost the position. Sometimes one mistake is all it takes in any form of motorsports.

Ahh Yeah that shift off the line from 1st to 2nd is tough. A good AX car doesnt get shifted out of 2nd at all in 95% of events. JP's car "shifting" at an AX. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nANXY8KBs...rofilepage#t=45

I can just say JWest linkage did wonders for my car and the stock kinkage that I replaced was relatively new. Brad and I installed it in about an hour. It helps to have two people for linkage install. Its not gated but shifts are much more positive. And I did hundreds of shifts flawlessly each weekend I went to the track with the JWest setup.

Honestly shifting 901 with Jwest was nicer than my cable shifted Boxster.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 9 2009, 06:18 PM

[J P Stein]

Ahh Yeah that shift off the line from 1st to 2nd is tough. A good AX car doesnt get shifted out of 2nd at all in 95% of events. JP's car "shifting" at an AX. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nANXY8KBs...rofilepage#t=45

Ayup, only one up & one down.....2nd & 3rd.....just like we planned. You'da been at least 2-3 seconds back with your fat ass & fat car....partially because you would have shifted 4-5 times......chump.

[Randal]

No doubt you shift a bunch at the track, but as with all things it's a matter of degree when you compare an autox run to a track session or race. By degree I mean missed one shift at an autox and your finished. On the track this can also be the case, but typically it isn't.

Yeah that makes sence. I imagine that in a short solo run (AX) you have to be flawless to get TTOD. I got lucky when I flubbed my shift as I wasn't being pressured in the braking zone. If I had, I would have likely lost the position. Sometimes one mistake is all it takes in any form of motorsports.

Ahh Yeah that shift off the line from 1st to 2nd is tough. A good AX car doesnt get shifted out of 2nd at all in 95% of events. JP's car "shifting" at an AX. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nANXY8KBs...rofilepage#t=45

I can just say JWest linkage did wonders for my car and the stock kinkage that I replaced was relatively new. Brad and I installed it in about an hour. It helps to have two people for linkage install. Its not gated but shifts are much more positive. And I did hundreds of shifts flawlessly each weekend I went to the track with the JWest setup.

Honestly shifting 901 with Jwest was nicer than my cable shifted Boxster.

I think you are totally missing the point Grant.

I wasn't talking about a 6 cylinder, where you rarely see 3rd, I was talking about my 4 cylinder where 3rd is used frequently. If you miss the 2nd to 3rd shift, because your right in the middle of a corner and on the rev limiter and have to shift, your done for that run.

The point being that the RennShifter, at least the generation I have, doesn't correct this issue. Maybe with the "new" back end stuff it would.

[J P Stein]

Grant misses the point regular like. The humorous part is he doesn't realise it and feels it necessary to run his mouth.

[Joe Ricard]

Since I am suppose to maderate this place. Both of you sut up.


There done my job gud huh?

[grantsfo]

I think you are totally missing the point Grant.

I wasn't talking about a 6 cylinder, where you rarely see 3rd, I was talking about my 4 cylinder where 3rd is used frequently. If you miss the 2nd to 3rd shift, because your right in the middle of a corner and on the rev limiter and have to shift, your done for that run.

The point being that the RennShifter, at least the generation I have, doesn't correct this issue. Maybe with the "new" back end stuff it would.

...Guess you didnt get the "subtle" hint about properly setup AX car not using 3rd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Gated shifter isnt going to solve key issue in my "uneducated" opinion. Properly setup 4 cylinder with 7500 RPM redline should be able to be geared not to use 3rd in over 90% of aX in our area. Dedicated AX car should be setup this way. My six was dual use and I still had decent AX gearing with 7200 RPM redline. I just had a huge torque hole below 4000 RPM that you wont have with a T4. What slowed you down in AX events was not mishifts as much as the act of shifting so much. When you shift you are coasting and you have added distraction of hand being off the wheel at times when all concentration should be on entry or exit of a corner.

JP got it right with his car. Nice broad torque band, decent redline and gearing that allowed high 65 MPH plus passes. We were all signficantly outclassed by his car at 2008 Shootout.

Your car truly has potential to be a great AX car if you can get topend issues worked out with motor and get better 2nd gear in that thing.

My Boxster is geared just like a 914-4 with its short tires and limited redline so now I'm a shifting fool. I'm not looking for gated shifter I'm now looking for ECU that will lift my redline to 7500 RPM. I'm losing tons of time due to shifts compared to my old 914-6. Larry S was lauging watching my car at Alameda and said I was shifting more than a 914. LOL! While all that shifting feels cool it is slower.

Gated shifter is still cool idea but given defined purpose of your car would hate to see it continue to be hampered by too short 2nd and not high enough redline.

...and you will want the backend linkage stuff for Hoopa. Corner loads on those 10% grade uphill turns do strange stuff to stock linkage.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 17 2009, 10:33 AM

[BKLA]

In building my track car (that I AX once in a while) I used both the rennshifter and the JWest linkage setups. I used porsche sport mounts up front and the solid urethane rear trans mounts.

setting the rennshift springs to center on the two/three horiz. axis, I have learned to let the springs push the shifter for the one/two upshift and the four/three downshift. Yes, I am still methodical (read: slow) in my shifts as the 901 was not designed for speed shifting, but I found that the shifts are clean and without drama. I only missed a shift once on a track day when I pulled from four to three and got one. I pulled rather than letting the spring push...

I like the setup. Crisper, cleaner shifts compared to a stock system with new bushings. I like the 2.7 with the 901. Feels like the mid '70's!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

However, If I was going to a 3.2 or bigger, I would go 915 with the WEVO. Lots mo' money, but worth it.

[Joe Ricard]

Proper AX car 2nd gear only IS NOT a proper AX car.
I can bang 7500 rev limit on most courses around here. 3rd gear (flipped ZD) and I roll 6000 RPM plus on most of the straight bits.