 Needed for Testing: Bone stock D and L Jet equipped 914s, For testing of a new oversized throttle body replacement |
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| Jake Raby |
 Jul 29 2009, 11:58 PM
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#1
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Engine Surgeon  Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States  |
The title says it all..
We don't have any bone stock cars here and I have been working on a new throttle body that bolts directly to a non modified L jet or D jet plenum.. I'd only need the car for an afternoon, so hopefully someone in Atlanta or the surrounding areas can hep us gather some data on my chassis dyno.. The engine must be in a good state of tune, not worn out and not filled with "bugs" and issues.. We need a solid before and after comparative to polish off this developoment and get it on the market with known results. We have the bigger engines covered and don't need any test cars for those. A 100.00 Gift Certificate from my store will be awarded to the two people that help us out... Wait till you see this... Up to a 48mm taper bored throttle body that bolts right on in about 20 minutes! |
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Replies(20 - 39)
| ConeDodger |
Jul 30 2009, 09:17 PM
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#21
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,594 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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QUOTE(ghuff @ Jul 30 2009, 06:00 PM)  Velocity stack could only help on this thing. I can't see anything but win coming from this. I have a bone stock car, it is a shame I am up in baltimore. Does a hot-spark module and egr/decel valve removal on L-jet still mean stock in your book? If by "win" you mean definitive information than I wholeheartedly agree. Jake is using science to prove or disprove. I think sometimes people forget that proving something is not effective is just as valid science as proving it is. He proves things are not effective all the time and people give him shit for saying so... The numbers will not lie... |
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| ghuff |
Jul 30 2009, 10:56 PM
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#22
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This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 30 2009, 07:17 PM) QUOTE(ghuff @ Jul 30 2009, 06:00 PM) Velocity stack could only help on this thing. I can't see anything but win coming from this. I have a bone stock car, it is a shame I am up in baltimore. Does a hot-spark module and egr/decel valve removal on L-jet still mean stock in your book? If by "win" you mean definitive information than I wholeheartedly agree. Jake is using science to prove or disprove. I think sometimes people forget that proving something is not effective is just as valid science as proving it is. He proves things are not effective all the time and people give him shit for saying so... The numbers will not lie... Yes, and also I will put my bets now that it will make a difference on a stock vehicle. The reason honda motors make so much power and flow so well is due to the fact that they do little things like this, they have internal bellmouth/velocity stacks within the intake manifolds, etc. It all adds up, and I suppose wonderful ports and valve angles do not hurt. I did a bunch of datalogging on watercooled VW's with stock airboxes. Remove the internal velocity stack, and lose 10+/- GPS worth of air at WOT. Add a velocity stack to a K&N on the same "cold air intake' and gain 5-10 GPS again. That is an entirely different setup as well. Also faster spool with a giant laggy compressor and a velocity stack on the inlet side & same results with a smaller compressor. That is on a 180hp turbo factory stock turbo car. Interesting to see the results, but I have 1$ on makes a difference even if it is marginal on a stock motor. |
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| Jake Raby |
Jul 31 2009, 05:26 AM
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#23
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I have even modified the stock air filter housing by shortening the runner and adding more bell onto it... The engine in my 912E picked up 4HP and 200 RPM when I did that.
Its all in the combo. Yet again, I will remoind everyone that this unit was not developed for stock engines, but we need to know how it will work when applied to them, because we will get requests for the information as soon as I put them on the market. |
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| JFJ914 |
Jul 31 2009, 09:30 AM
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#24
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 813 Joined: 13-June 03 From: Alpharetta, GA Member No.: 814 Region Association: South East States 
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QUOTE(D1A3 @ Jul 30 2009, 04:53 PM) QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 30 2009, 12:37 PM) Les, I'll take you up on the comparison.. If we could get a bone stock car here the same day for a back to back we would really learn a lot! Jake, We met back when the group came through ~2 years ago. I know Les and Blake and have a "bone stock" 2.0L. In fact, Blake and (mostly) Al helped with getting it rebuilt to stock condition. It has about 3000 miles on it since the rebuild. I'm in Roswell and would be happy to bring it up and let you spend some time with it. Send me a PM if you want to do it and we can hook up. Thanks, Jason Jason, you know that I've thought that you are running rich due to a bad MPS. I have a brand new one I would be glad to let you use for the test. let me know. |
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| D1A3 |
Jul 31 2009, 09:32 AM
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#25
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Gruppe Neun Vierzehn Südosten Group: Members Posts: 362 Joined: 3-June 04 From: Atlanta, GA Member No.: 2,152 Region Association: South East States |
Jake,
I've got commitments on Saturday the 8th and the 15th. Other than that, I should be open. I'll send you a PM with all of my contact info and you or Blake can let me know when you want me to come up. Unfortunately I'm traveling a lot this month and won't be able to keep up on the board as I'd like to. Looking forward to getting everyoen together and seeign how this works out! Thanks, Jason |
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| blitZ |
Jul 31 2009, 09:44 AM
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#26
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Beer please... Group: Members Posts: 2,223 Joined: 31-August 05 From: Lawrenceville, GA Member No.: 4,719 Region Association: South East States |
I'm available any time. I have a vacuum gauge if you need your MPS tested.
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| D1A3 |
Aug 18 2009, 12:40 PM
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#27
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Gruppe Neun Vierzehn Südosten Group: Members Posts: 362 Joined: 3-June 04 From: Atlanta, GA Member No.: 2,152 Region Association: South East States |
Jake,
How is this coming along? I heard you may be pushing this back a few weeks. Let me know. I'm back in town the end of this week and don't plan on traveling for a few weeks. -- Jason |
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| D1A3 |
Aug 23 2009, 02:27 PM
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#28
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Gruppe Neun Vierzehn Südosten Group: Members Posts: 362 Joined: 3-June 04 From: Atlanta, GA Member No.: 2,152 Region Association: South East States |
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| jgara962 |
Sep 27 2009, 10:06 PM
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#29
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Yo, this is how I roll Group: Members Posts: 823 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Napa, CA Member No.: 3,879 Region Association: Northern California |
Any updates on this?
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| Jake Raby |
Sep 27 2009, 10:28 PM
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#30
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I have had zero time and now that the fall season is here I have even less time... We have SCCA races, land speed races, Georgia football and car shows through November every weekend..
Finding the right car, available at the right time was proving to be difficult.. I am positive that it'll work really well, just need to get the data to support that. All the parts to make them work are already made... I just don't believe the demand will be high enough for it to ever pan out. |
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| Cupomeat |
Sep 28 2009, 02:27 PM
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#31
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missing my NY 914 in VA Group: Members Posts: 1,336 Joined: 26-November 07 From: Oakton VA Member No.: 8,376 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Not that it might make much difference, but I'd buy anything to make my 1.9 Ljet more powerful, LOL.
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| jgara962 |
Sep 28 2009, 06:17 PM
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#32
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Yo, this is how I roll Group: Members Posts: 823 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Napa, CA Member No.: 3,879 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 28 2009, 01:27 PM) Not that it might make much difference, but I'd buy anything to make my 1.9 Ljet more powerful, LOL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) With so few true bolt on performance parts for our cars, I would buy something that gave my 2.0 a few documented extra horsepower. |
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| ericread |
Sep 28 2009, 06:27 PM
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#33
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The Viper Blue 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,177 Joined: 7-December 07 From: Irvine, CA (The OC) Member No.: 8,432 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 27 2009, 09:28 PM) I just don't believe the demand will be high enough for it to ever pan out. I know this is probably premature, but do you have any target range for the sales price you would have to charge for this unit? Depending upon price, I might be interested, even to the point of prepaying so that you can gauge actual sales interest. My thanks. Eric Read |
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| ghuff |
Sep 28 2009, 07:03 PM
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#34
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This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
A nice plenum and throttle body combination coupled with a replacement rubber boot for the air flow meter to throttle body would be very sweet. Kit to replace all of that, and I bet you would see real gains. You could play with shortening the intake runners too and get rid of the rubber plenum to intake runner hoses.
I think the L-jet boots are no longer available, and all of them are junk by now or held together with sealants. The plenum on the motor I think is a problem as well after looking at it more. Either way, if it makes power that is a win. If it replaces the l-jet throttle bodies that are now requiring custom machined bushings and modifications to not stick, seal well and etc it is still a win. I looked at another 2 throttle bodies this weekend, same as mine with excess shaft play and probably leaking an excess of unmetered intake air behind the air flow meter! |
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| Krieger |
Sep 28 2009, 07:57 PM
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#35
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,713 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 30 2009, 06:50 PM) Nothing like slapping some smart ass in the face with real data... Thats never stopped you. I am very suprised to see Jake doing this. I am almost certain that in the past Jake has said that oversized throttle bodies are of no value. It was a few years ago. I remember because my 914 with a 2270 with a 48mm bore TB that was dynoed and featured in Excellence. There was quite a stir on the old site regarding the mods. Anyway I went to a larger 55mm TB with a modified stock plenum to fit the TB and gained 4-5 hp & #ft across the rpm range. |
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| Jake Raby |
Sep 28 2009, 09:55 PM
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#36
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Krieger914 @ Sep 28 2009, 06:57 PM) QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 30 2009, 06:50 PM) Nothing like slapping some smart ass in the face with real data... Thats never stopped you. I am very suprised to see Jake doing this. I am almost certain that in the past Jake has said that oversized throttle bodies are of no value. It was a few years ago. I remember because my 914 with a 2270 with a 48mm bore TB that was dynoed and featured in Excellence. There was quite a stir on the old site regarding the mods. Anyway I went to a larger 55mm TB with a modified stock plenum to fit the TB and gained 4-5 hp & #ft across the rpm range. The only thing that stays the same is that everything changes... What happened on the old site was with the older mindset and older technoology and engine combinations. As I continually experiment with combinations we must also experiemnt with things that hadn't worked in days past. Closing the mind STOPS performance and further developments. That means we have to do things that we think don't work and that haven't worked in the past. |
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| Krieger |
Sep 29 2009, 08:26 AM
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#37
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,713 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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Your approach to developement is awesome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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| hedfurst |
Sep 29 2009, 12:02 PM
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 99 Joined: 9-March 03 From: S. Mississippi Member No.: 406 |
What about my 912E Jake, stock except for the tangerine
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| blitZ |
Sep 30 2009, 08:11 AM
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#39
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Beer please... Group: Members Posts: 2,223 Joined: 31-August 05 From: Lawrenceville, GA Member No.: 4,719 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(jgara962 @ Sep 28 2009, 07:17 PM) QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 28 2009, 01:27 PM) Not that it might make much difference, but I'd buy anything to make my 1.9 Ljet more powerful, LOL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) With so few true bolt on performance parts for our cars, I would buy something that gave my 2.0 a few documented extra horsepower. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Most HP enhancements require significant mechanical work on our cars. This sounds like something anyone can do, so there should be a larger than average customer pool. |
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| BigDBass |
Oct 31 2011, 06:17 PM
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#40
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Dumb Question Champion Group: Members Posts: 1,438 Joined: 11-January 06 From: Chicago (south 'burbs) Member No.: 5,405 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Did anything ever come of this?
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