Where is Ground Connection"B" ? Options

[ghuff]

I have all of the schematics for all of the years in the Haynes manual (not doing me much good right now). Helped me to trace the handbrake switch, the brake swt=itch and everything else that's not solving this mystery.

... that flasher relay interconnects to a bunch of random crap ...

And you call my knowledge 'trivial' ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Yeah, it is. Very trivial. Sorry. Just like your existence, trivial with an attempt to make yourself feel superior scoffing at others for almost no reason.


Anyone with wiring diagrams can read them and find it out. In fact I would rather do that than deal with reading some whiney text from you in the internet compensating for something else lacking in your life.

I can only imagine the raging mental internet elitist boner you probably have while sitting there attempting to write snarky replies and roll eyes a plenty.

Must be pretty pathetic living in your world.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but like you said to me, you are nothing special. Plenty of people know how to do this. If you want respect you are going about it the wrong way.


It's nice you want to help, but being a snobbish dick to people while doing so is pretty lame.


It's nice to socialize and share/help, but beating down others to make yourself feel better is pathetic.







PS Ken I have a copy of the 914 & 914/6 group 9 wiring diagrams. It appears to be a complete pdf scan of all the wiring diagrams throughout production.


PM me and I can get them to you offline so you can trace this all.

Or if you are local you can bring it by my place afte this weekend and we can look at it in person.

I promise I wont roll my eyes, turn my nose in the air or act better than you because I might be able to read a wiring diagram. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Every haynes manual I have had for every car I have owned has been inaccurate and lacking in wiring diagrams.

This is the factory stuff.

Let me get the PDF to an SMTP friendly size and it will be headed to you!

[kenshapiro2002]

Thanks.

I have all of the schematics for all of the years in the Haynes manual (not doing me much good right now). Helped me to trace the handbrake switch, the brake swt=itch and everything else that's not solving this mystery.

... that flasher relay interconnects to a bunch of random crap ...

And you call my knowledge 'trivial' ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Yeah, it is. Very trivial. Sorry. Just like your existence, trivial with an attempt to make yourself feel superior scoffing at others for almost no reason.


Anyone with wiring diagrams can read them and find it out. In fact I would rather do that than deal with reading some whiney text from you in the internet compensating for something else lacking in your life.

I can only imagine the raging mental internet elitist boner you probably have while sitting there attempting to write snarky replies and roll eyes a plenty.

Must be pretty pathetic living in your world.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but like you said to me, you are nothing special. Plenty of people know how to do this. If you want respect you are going about it the wrong way.


It's nice you want to help, but being a snobbish dick to people while doing so is pretty lame.


It's nice to socialize and share/help, but beating down others to make yourself feel better is pathetic.







PS Ken I have a copy of the 914 & 914/6 group 9 wiring diagrams. It appears to be a complete pdf scan of all the wiring diagrams throughout production.


PM me and I can get them to you offline so you can trace this all.

Or if you are local you can bring it by my place afte this weekend and we can look at it in person.

I promise I wont roll my eyes, turn my nose in the air or act better than you because I might be able to read a wiring diagram. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Every haynes manual I have had for every car I have owned has been inaccurate and lacking in wiring diagrams.

This is the factory stuff.

Let me get the PDF to an SMTP friendly size and it will be headed to you!

[Spoke]

Alright...new evidence. I have all the gauges dangling and nothing is loose or missing that I can see or feel, but check this out... When I turn on the ignition, and make the flasher click like crazy by turning on the lights, radio, wipers...anything, I can make it stop by turning on the emergency flasher! Once the emergency flashers are on, everything else works fine and the buzzing stops.

I'm guessing this is because the flasher relay is getting more juice and Ill just have to ride around all the time with my 4 ways on, or is this some evidence of where the problem lies?

It makes sense that the 4-ways stops the noise. See below, with 4-ways on, power comes from fuse 11. Fuse 11 powers the 4-way lights, clock and the seat belt warning system.

Fuse 9 (in my Haynes manual looking at 1974 MY) which powers the system when 4-ways are off, also powers the brake lights, backup lights, oil temp gauge, voltmeter, generator light, low fuel warning light, and fuel gauge sender unit. oil pressure indicator light, tachometer, fuel gauge.

Question: Does the noise stop when either turn signal is active?

Question: What is the voltage on fuse 9 when this happens? Make sure you measure the lug opposite where the power comes in.

Question: does the noise happen when the backup lights are on?

[Cupomeat]

WOW, I leave this thread for a commute, dinner, kids time and walk of the dog and not only did we get to see a battle, we have a REAL possible answer!

If only I watched it in real time...

[kenshapiro2002]

Maybe a savior! I need to go out and perform tests for questions #2 and #3, but I can tell you right now that yes...usuing the turn signals is "usually " the only way to get the noise to stop. I say "usually" because sometimes it does not, unless I go back and forth between left,right,left,right. That being said, the turn signals do seem to be the best way to get the chattering to stop, though not always a "quick" stop.

[Spoke]

Some other tests to try:

On the flasher relay, remove ground pin 31. Measure resistance (ohms) from the brown wire to a nice clean chassis point. This should be 0 ohms or close to it.

On the flasher relay, remove wire from pin 49a. With power off, 4-ways off, turn signals off, parking brake off, measure resistance (ohms) from the wire to ground. This should be infinite ohms (very high resistance; like when the 2 voltmeter probes are not touching anything).

On the flasher relay, remove wire from pin 49. With voltmeter on VOLTS, measure voltage from the wire to chassis ground with lights on, 4-ways on, other electric loads. This voltage should be steady and not jumping around.

A side note:
When doing electrical testing and you remove wires, lamps, etc., do not let the fixture touch metal. The last thing you want is an unintended short circuit and blown fuse or melted wire. If you must remove and keep things off, wrap them with tape-any kind of tape.

Also, if you remove more than 1 wire, mark the wires and where they go. It is so easy to mis-connect wires when putting things together.

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...just went out to "play". The turn signals will actually cause the chatter after a few seconds. At first they click normally, and then after 2-3 second the chatter begins. A few weeks ago when the problem first surfaced, it was applying the brakes that started the chatter, and a quick flick of the turn signal would stop it. With some experimenting today, use of the four way flasher will stop the chatter, but it often takes 2-3 pulls. Here's an example...

turn on ignition (not to starter), use turn signal. Sounds normal for a few seconds, then the chatter begins. Pull out 4 way flasher control and chatter gets worse...almost a constant buzz instead of rapid clicking. Use the 4 way switch a few more times, and all quiets down.

Question #3. Putting the beast into reverse does not cause the problem. Not sure if my reverse light even works. If that matters I'll close the garage door and see if the light is illuminating.

Question #2. When the chatter is happening, no matter which side of fuse#9 I place my analog, ancient, volt meter, the needle heads south! Goes below zero. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...no question #2 I had the wires reversed! My meter might not be spot on accurate, but I get the same reading on all three (+) poles as well as the (-) pole...a little less than 12 v.

OK...just went out to "play". The turn signals will actually cause the chatter after a few seconds. At first they click normally, and then after 2-3 second the chatter begins. A few weeks ago when the problem first surfaced, it was applying the brakes that started the chatter, and a quick flick of the turn signal would stop it. With some experimenting today, use of the four way flasher will stop the chatter, but it often takes 2-3 pulls. Here's an example...

turn on ignition (not to starter), use turn signal. Sounds normal for a few seconds, then the chatter begins. Pull out 4 way flasher control and chatter gets worse...almost a constant buzz instead of rapid clicking. Use the 4 way switch a few more times, and all quiets down.

Question #3. Putting the beast into reverse does not cause the problem. Not sure if my reverse light even works. If that matters I'll close the garage door and see if the light is illuminating.

Question #2. When the chatter is happening, no matter which side of fuse#9 I place my analog, ancient, volt meter, the needle heads south! Goes below zero. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...here's where I need to get stupid (tongue-in-cheek) again...the flasher relay, I'm assuming, is the rectangular box that's chattering away, and is sitting inside my dash just outboard of the headlight switch? I must be wrong here because this box is just a plug in with no obvious wires attached.

Some other tests to try:

On the flasher relay, remove ground pin 31. Measure resistance (ohms) from the brown wire to a nice clean chassis point. This should be 0 ohms or close to it.

On the flasher relay, remove wire from pin 49a. With power off, 4-ways off, turn signals off, parking brake off, measure resistance (ohms) from the wire to ground. This should be infinite ohms (very high resistance; like when the 2 voltmeter probes are not touching anything).

On the flasher relay, remove wire from pin 49. With voltmeter on VOLTS, measure voltage from the wire to chassis ground with lights on, 4-ways on, other electric loads. This voltage should be steady and not jumping around.

A side note:
When doing electrical testing and you remove wires, lamps, etc., do not let the fixture touch metal. The last thing you want is an unintended short circuit and blown fuse or melted wire. If you must remove and keep things off, wrap them with tape-any kind of tape.

Also, if you remove more than 1 wire, mark the wires and where they go. It is so easy to mis-connect wires when putting things together.

[Spoke]

OK...no question #2 I had the wires reversed! My meter might not be spot on accurate, but I get the same reading on all three (+) poles as well as the (-) pole...a little less than 12 v.

When you turn things on and off, does the voltage change much? Just checking in case there is resistance at the fuse. Are the fuse contacts and fuse box contacts clean? Emery cloth or fine sandpaper will clean them up nicely.

When you say "all three (+) poles", what are you referring to? On fuse #9?

[Spoke]

OK...here's where I need to get stupid (tongue-in-cheek) again...the flasher relay, I'm assuming, is the rectangular box that's chattering away, and is sitting inside my dash just outboard of the headlight switch? I must be wrong here because this box is just a plug in with no obvious wires attached.

I usually get stupid on the weekends... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

I'm not quite sure what the flasher relay looks like. Are you saying chattering box has a connector with a plug? How many wires are on the plug and do the wire colors match the wire colors in the schematic?

[kenshapiro2002]

Here's what I'm referring to. This is what my fuse #9 looks like:

OK...no question #2 I had the wires reversed! My meter might not be spot on accurate, but I get the same reading on all three (+) poles as well as the (-) pole...a little less than 12 v.

When you turn things on and off, does the voltage change much? Just checking in case there is resistance at the fuse. Are the fuse contacts and fuse box contacts clean? Emery cloth or fine sandpaper will clean them up nicely.

When you say "all three (+) poles", what are you referring to? On fuse #9?

[kenshapiro2002]

The flasher relay (the one that now chatters me crazy, and also makes the normal turn signal and 4 way flasher clicks) is a rectangular metal box that plugs in the horizontal part of the dash that the knee pad attaches to. I need to go get a mirror, but there must be a plate attached to the dash there, and the relay simply pushes down into the plate for contact. Very hard to get to and almost impossible to see in there. Heading out to Harbor Freight right now for a mirror to help me see in there better.

OK...here's where I need to get stupid (tongue-in-cheek) again...the flasher relay, I'm assuming, is the rectangular box that's chattering away, and is sitting inside my dash just outboard of the headlight switch? I must be wrong here because this box is just a plug in with no obvious wires attached.

I usually get stupid on the weekends... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

I'm not quite sure what the flasher relay looks like. Are you saying chattering box has a connector with a plug? How many wires are on the plug and do the wire colors match the wire colors in the schematic?

[Spoke]

Nice pic of the fuse. The side with one wire is the hot side. The side with the 2 lugs is the protected (by fuse 9) side. This is the side to measure. Here we'd be looking for any jumping of the voltage caused by other loads.

I think the flasher relay is a little metal box. The wires should be in either a connector or somehow attached to the plate. I've never taken one apart so I have no experience with dissassembly.

If there is a connector, we can still work with that. What we wand to do is this:

1) Check the voltage into the circuit on pin 49. This should be stable for all loading (lights, radio, wipers, etc)

2) Check the ground wire resistance on Pin 31. This should be very low resistance. Like 0 to 1 ohms.

3) Find some other electrical path on pin 49a that causes the load that causes the chatter.

[kenshapiro2002]

Yeah...the chatter box is a rectangular prism, silver in color, and is mounter on one of those round rubber bases just like the relays on the back of the fuse panel. I guess I need to not only pull the relay but also remove the base to get to the wires. Are tjose nipples easy to get back in? Any tricks in removing or reinstalling?

[r_towle]

I have all of the schematics for all of the years in the Haynes manual (not doing me much good right now). Helped me to trace the handbrake switch, the brake swt=itch and everything else that's not solving this mystery.

... that flasher relay interconnects to a bunch of random crap ...

And you call my knowledge 'trivial' ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Yeah, it is. Very trivial. Sorry. Just like your existence, trivial with an attempt to make yourself feel superior scoffing at others for almost no reason.


Anyone with wiring diagrams can read them and find it out. In fact I would rather do that than deal with reading some whiney text from you in the internet compensating for something else lacking in your life.

I can only imagine the raging mental internet elitist boner you probably have while sitting there attempting to write snarky replies and roll eyes a plenty.

Must be pretty pathetic living in your world.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but like you said to me, you are nothing special. Plenty of people know how to do this. If you want respect you are going about it the wrong way.


It's nice you want to help, but being a snobbish dick to people while doing so is pretty lame.


It's nice to socialize and share/help, but beating down others to make yourself feel better is pathetic.







PS Ken I have a copy of the 914 & 914/6 group 9 wiring diagrams. It appears to be a complete pdf scan of all the wiring diagrams throughout production.


PM me and I can get them to you offline so you can trace this all.

Or if you are local you can bring it by my place afte this weekend and we can look at it in person.

I promise I wont roll my eyes, turn my nose in the air or act better than you because I might be able to read a wiring diagram. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Every haynes manual I have had for every car I have owned has been inaccurate and lacking in wiring diagrams.

This is the factory stuff.

Let me get the PDF to an SMTP friendly size and it will be headed to you!

Dude, your a guest, behave like one.

Rich

[kenshapiro2002]

I concur...guests and "hosts" should treat people decently.
Ken

Dude, your a guest, behave like one.

Rich

[SirAndy]

I concur...guests and "hosts" should treat people decently.

I didn't think i stepped on your toes. Did i? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If so, i apologize!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[kenshapiro2002]

Not at all. Already thought I made that clear. I have nothing but appreciation and good feelings about you ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I concur...guests and "hosts" should treat people decently.

I didn't think i stepped on your toes. Did i? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

If so, i apologize!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[kenshapiro2002]

Just checked out the voltage on the "cold" side of fuse #9. My voltage meter is an older analog one, so we're not talking exact readings here, but I'm getting 12 volts with no load on it and even as I add on other loads. When I turn on the headlights I get a very small drop, that then recovers...almost imperceptible. I'm guessing this is normal ?

Out to pull the flasher relay.

Nice pic of the fuse. The side with one wire is the hot side. The side with the 2 lugs is the protected (by fuse 9) side. This is the side to measure. Here we'd be looking for any jumping of the voltage caused by other loads.

I think the flasher relay is a little metal box. The wires should be in either a connector or somehow attached to the plate. I've never taken one apart so I have no experience with dissassembly.

If there is a connector, we can still work with that. What we wand to do is this:

1) Check the voltage into the circuit on pin 49. This should be stable for all loading (lights, radio, wipers, etc)

2) Check the ground wire resistance on Pin 31. This should be very low resistance. Like 0 to 1 ohms.

3) Find some other electrical path on pin 49a that causes the load that causes the chatter.