Full flow question, relief pistons? Options

[jhadler]

I searched, I read, I think I understand...

However, one thing still isn't clear. The oil pressure relief pistons... Do they need to be changed, altered, modified, etc?

The setup I think should be: Case will be tapped and pluged. A Schadek 30 mm pump with full flow port, going to an external filter assembly, with a thermostat feeding an external oil cooler, then plumbed back to the case. Cutting the engine mount for clearance of the full flow line(s) seems to be straightforward enough. Filter would be mounted where the fuel pump (now in front) used to go.

Any other issues that I missed?

-Josh2

[Jake Raby]

The stock pressure relief pistons and springs are reatined with full flow. There is nothing better.

[jhadler]

Thanks Jake!

Can you tell me where can I find the listed dimensions on the stock relief pistons? I scanned through the factory manuals, and it wasn't listed there...I saw the specs for the springs though... I'll see if I can find a way to test 'em. I have a box-o-parts (two disassembled core motors worth). I know there's also a set of Weltmeister relief pistons in there, but it's been so long, I don't remember which ones were which. And I wouldn't want to mix-n-match accidentally.

-Josh2

[jmill]

What's the downside of using this instead of machining for full flow?

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=222

[jhadler]

Full flow is not done specifically for relocating the filter. But a filter relocation is needed in order to go full flow. If that makes any sense...

So yes, one of those (or something like it) would be required for a full flow setup. Just using a remote filter assembly does not accomplish the intent of going full flow (which is to flow -all- of the oil through the filter and oil cooler).

-Josh2

[r_towle]

odd, I cant get to CB, Ebay, or the samba...but I can get to lots of other sites....hmmm

If that listing is for the sandwich plate adapter I can offer a few reasons not to use that.

It will leak.
The seal will blow out at the worst time...on the track or highways...high RPM session with high oil pressure.
Then you have no oil pressure and lots of smoke behind you.

Also, the stock oil filter will no longer fit...you will need to use a bmw filter, and I cant remember which one.

the biggest issue is that it will leak, alot.

Rich

[Joe Owensby]

I have a sandwich adapter that has a seal that is essentially the same as the seal on a standard oil filter. It is retained in a groove, and I don't see how it could blow out unless the adapter came loose. I don't see how it would be any different than a standard oil filter as far as leaking goes. In fact, I would think it may be a little better since it is clamped a little tighter than a hand tightened oil filter is. Any clarifications? Thanks, Joe

[SirAndy]

Any other issues that I missed?

Mount the thermostat as close to the engine as you can get ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[Mark Henry]

I searched, I read, I think I understand...

However, one thing still isn't clear. The oil pressure relief pistons... Do they need to be changed, altered, modified, etc?

The setup I think should be: Case will be tapped and pluged. A Schadek 30 mm pump with full flow port, going to an external filter assembly, with a thermostat feeding an external oil cooler, then plumbed back to the case. Cutting the engine mount for clearance of the full flow line(s) seems to be straightforward enough. Filter would be mounted where the fuel pump (now in front) used to go.

Any other issues that I missed?

-Josh2

Are you deleting the stock cooler? Bad idea... even for most race applications.
A remote cooler in the rear is useless.

Filter (adapter) MUST be the first thing from the oil pump and close to the engine, as it has the most resistance.
Mount it straight up/down so it doesn't make a mess when you change the filter.
(At first I thought you were saying you are mounting it in the front trunk.)

Oil lines to the front should have as few turns as possible and a quailty cooler, with good airflow, shound be used.

That 30mm pump creates a lot of pressure when cold, so your filter, fittings and oil lines better be up to the task. I use Parker Push-loc, no clamps.
Use a steel pump cover and you have to modify the one engine mount on a 914.

BTW I've built quite a few full flow setups on type 1 and 4 engines.

[jhadler]

Are you deleting the stock cooler? Bad idea... even for most race applications.
A remote cooler in the rear is useless.

Not deleting the stock oil cooler. And running a front oil cooler.

Filter (adapter) MUST be the first thing from the oil pump and close to the engine, as it has the most resistance.
Mount it straight up/down so it doesn't make a mess when you change the filter.
(At first I thought you were saying you are mounting it in the front trunk.)

Oil filter assembly will probably go where the old fuel filter (fuel pump and filter are now in front) went on the passenger side.

Oil lines to the front should have as few turns as possible and a quailty cooler, with good airflow, shound be used.

Planning on running the oil lines up the heater tubes (headers, no heat), and over the front bulkhead into the trunk. I have two boxes of AN-10 braided line. Right now have an Earl's oil cooler, but I'd rather sell it and get one of a different configuration. See me blog for pics of the cooler. Will punch out the grommets in front, and vent to the wheel wells.

That 30mm pump creates a lot of pressure when cold, so your filter, fittings and oil lines better be up to the task. I use Parker Push-loc, no clamps.
Use a steel pump cover and you have to modify the one engine mount on a 914.

I'll be searching for a Schadek 30 mm pump. The Melling that's on there is going in the bin... I looked at the pics of the modified engine mounts, and it looks a lot less difficult than I thought. A little time with the grinder or band saw should do it.

BTW I've built quite a few full flow setups on type 1 and 4 engines.

Thanks for the comments, It's good to know that what I've finally got planned is in the right direction. I'm learning...

-Josh2

[Mark Henry]

On the engine mount you must reinforce (gussets) to make up for what you remove.
If you don't reinforce it will bend and effect your shifting just like broke rubber mounts will.

[jhadler]

Can it just be a large fillet? Or will that be pointless? If gussets, what dimensions/sizes?

Thanks!

-Josh2