Out of the blue the wife gave me permission to spend a bunch of cash on the teener. I have the slightest idea what I did right or what she did wrong.

I have to check out the finances but I'd like to do a 6 conversion. I know diddly about the flat 6. I need some help.

My end goal is to basically have a street legal track car. I like the small high reving 6's but like I said I know nadda. The only thing that it has to have is carbs. I'm not into FI and ECU's.

What's my best engine choice? I'm about 1/4 way through the 911 performance handbook trying to educate myself. I can build an engine if thats my best option.

I should also ask the average conversion cost.

If I were doing what you are planning, I would build a short stroke 2.5 or 2.8.

Short stroke 2.5 is 2.7S Pistons and Cylinders with a 2.2 crank.

Short stroke 2.8 is a 3.0 Case (from 76 turbo or eurospec Carrera), and a 2.2 crank.

Build either with some hot cams and you get a bitchin high rev screamer of a motor.

Won't run for shit down low, but when it comes on the cams, look out!!!

I think the average cost was somewhere between expensive and divorce... so you have a little play there

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm thinking if I go with a smaller 6 with carbs I can limit it to expensive. Turbo and Eurospec might not be an option.

Actually the rebuild cost is the same for a 2.2 as it is for a 3.2. The costs are the parts to convert the /4 into a /6. You have to buy a bunch of parts to do it. The engine is the smallest cost. BTDT!

I was he middle of doing paint and flairs on my teener when my wife said you should do the six conversion now. I put a 3.0 with headers and 964 cam. It pulled 200HP at the rear wheels. If thats not enough for you nothing will be. Also from what I read this is about the max for a 901. Keeping the 901 keeps your costs down and its a sweeter shifting tranny. I have an SC as a DD w/ a 915 so I feel I can directly compare the two boxes. The other day on a back road trip I got caught up in a corvette club event and had no problem hanging with the z06 guys/ ZR1s left everyone for dead.

I know the oil tank is spendy. I was hoping to do the swap for about 10k. If the engine is the cheapest part I'm screwed. I was hoping to have about 6k in the engine and 4k for 4 to 6 parts.

And how do you plan to stop it?

Buy a complete 911, then rape it.

I have already have a 911 front suspension with 3.5 spacing and A calipers.

Can I have you wife?

Really, I'd think twice about a built /4. It could be a lot easier and damn fun when its done

Parts list.

Oil tank.
Oil filter console.
Oil filter.
Oil filler neck.
Dipstick.
Oil filler cap.
Oil filter adapter rubber boot and snap ring.
Suction line from tank to coupler.
Oil line coupler.
Oil line from coupler to oil cooler.
Engine mounted oil cooler (modified or stock.. stock is more expensive)
Oil scavenge line from engine to tank (stock hard metal line is hard to find. Easy to get the 911 rubber line to replace it.)
Engine mount. (Recommend the Rich Johnson mount.)
Engine tin set.
Early 911 Flywheel, or aftermarket conversion flywheel. (To hook to 901 transmission)
Heat exchangers or headers (headers are cheaper, but no heat for interior)
911 muffler.
Either 40IDA3C Weber carbs and linkage or PMO Carbs and linkage.
914/6 throttle bellcrank, rod and cable bracket. plus 914/6 throttle cable.

You also have to modify the engine wiring harness to hook it to the car, cut the holes for the oil tank, remove the stock 4 cylinder motor mounts, and weld in the six cylinder motor mounts.

And if you are going to do this, you need to upgrade the brakes. I recommend the Boxster brake conversion. Unless you purchase some of the pricey billet hubs, this will more than likely require a 5 lug conversion. That means new wheels.


See where this can add up????

But you can also do the rootworks method and make some of your own tin etc.

I don't 100% agree that they all cost the same to rebuild, example is 2.2/2.4 heads can be had on ebay for $500 fully rebuilt, etc. There are deals if you take your time.

I'm serious about buying a whole 911, major part source and then part out the rest.

I can't do the donor deal. All my garage space is taken up. The HOA doesn't go for parts cars in the driveway.

I don't want to go too rootwerks either. About the only thing I'd consider is an alternate oil tank and mounting location. Is there any savings in it?

I did my conversion in my garage in Fontana, WI, just west of you about 30 miles. If you are interested, I do have some headers, a Quick-Six mounting bar, and a conversion flywheel (if you are using an engine larger than the 2.0 liter) that I had originally used when I did my conversion. I have since switched to a Rich Johnson mount and heat exchangers, so these were parts taken off of my original conversion.

I do get up there on occasion, so if I can provide any advice, please PM me.

I would go buy a book called "Porsche 911 Performance Handbook" by Bruce Anderson, then read it cover to cover.....twice. The motor is the single most expensive piece and can cause the most grief.

Take your time, do your research. With the economy being what it is, shopping is gud. I see a couple motors a week F/S in the Pelican 911 classifieds.....but be ready to jump. Good deals don't last long over there. As I've said elsewhere when I'm "on the hunt", I'll check there 3-4 times a day.

Personally, I think the 3.0L is the best production aircooled motor Porsche ever made.

in this economy you should save your money and pop in a 1911 or 2056. you wife will be impressed. maybe put some of those funds to your suspension and brakes - a new dress for your wife, then take her to a nice dinner and threatre.

talk to McMark - http://www.originalcustoms.com/engines.php

I would sell off what you have, combine that with the "Honey" Money, and buy either a Real 914-6 (HotRod or no) or an already completed -6 Conversion. If you do Due Diligence, you can buy alot of car right now. Plus you could drive it Now.

T.C.

Probably the most sound advice, if you not majorly attached to your existing teener.

My car is a low mile, pretty much rust free example. As much as I would love to flare it and /6 it, I just do not have the heart to 'cut' into it at all. So I dropped in a McMark 2056(125HP, stated), and bolted in 5 lug last December. I am very happy with the motor/car now, but would I rather be driving a 200 HP 914/6? WELL HELL YES!!!

I gotta jump on board with the big 4 bandwagon... mine is an estimated 140hp -4, with a light fywheel... and whoa nellie is it fun

you can do a jake kit for much less than your 10k price-tag, and get about 150-175+ hp. that and 5-lug conversion (under 1000, if you shop around) and you will be pretty happy

I got the fix'ins for a big T4 engine in the classifieds

Have cash, LOTS OF CASH.

When you start down this rabbit hole, you'll be hard pressed to find out just how deep it goes.
If you start spending money on expensive parts and then give up, you're going to have a large investment that you'll never recoup.

10-20k would not be hard to put into a conversion if done nicely and properly.
throw in an engine rebuild, and that'll add another 7-10k.

Don't be shocked at the numbers, just bear in mind that all of us has faced the same music.

Ron

If you start down this rabbit hole, I suggest that you never total up the receipts. If you total them BEFORE you finish the six conversion, you will not finish it, ever. If you total it afterword, you will kick yourself every time you drive the car.

I did a rough off the cuff estimate on what I spent on my car.... I could have a new GT3 for what I currently have in it, and I have not finished it. I still have lots to do.


But the bottom line for me is that "I" built this car. Anyone with a healthy checkbook can go buy a GT3. There are a few people out there like me who can build a car like mine. And a new GT3 would be generic Porsche, and not an extension of my personality and desires.

Bottom line, what do YOU want to do.... Forget all the financial advice, forget the work involved, do you want to BUILD a 914/6??????? It is not a logical thing, it is an emotional thing. You have to want to do this, and want it bad enough so that the cost and effort is irrelevant.

Larry has a nice 3.2 in the Classified for $5,000. I have a 2.5 SS that I am rebuilding that I will spend over $5,000 on machine work and parts and crab work. I would put the 3.2 in but it just would not be in character for my real 6. You could get brakes from Rich Johnston as well as motor mounts. You will need the 911 front end and a 911 e-break setup and 5 lug for the rear and tangerine has the E-break cable.

Yes on the wheels of your desire.

Bob

Or you could buy mine

:trackfees:

Well said Clay!!!

No one could have said it better. I got 11 years of effort in my ride, and am always finding another project on it to take it another step further.
It does become an extension of ones personality.

Ron

hey...I'm just up the road from you (in brookfield). I'm in the middle of my conversion. I've got all my parts and ready for reassembly (probably this spring). I got an 84 911 with 65k miles and used it as a donor and parted the rest. So, outside of my labor/time i'm at about a break even. If I would have just purchased everything outright I'd probably have about 10k into it. Parting out took a long time but basically bought all of my parts.

Out of the blue the wife gave me permission to spend a bunch of cash on the teener. I have the slightest idea what I did right or what she did wrong.

Wow! Better strike while the iron is hot!

What a gal! I bet she mows the lawn too? Tell her there should be more gals like her...can I have her talk to my wife and do some convincing?

Be careful...Maybe it's a set up?

I don't want this to be another four vs six debate. I like them both. But when I dream about what the car will have when it's done, it's a six. The wife gave me permission so my dream is a bit closer to reality. She's pretty cool.

Anyhow, What I was really hoping for was some advice on engines. Similar to what Clay said in the second post. I like the small to medium cc screamers. Are there certain combo's that work the best? Anything I should stay away from?

I totally agree.



Properly done, you will have a great car for less money and time....and you can spend more time with your Wife and take her to dinner instead of fixing your car.

good deal, man. then I'd listen to what clay said. he's one of the most knowledgeable 914'rs I know, and if I wanted to know how to do a -6 right, he'd be the first person I'd call.

I ran a 2.4 w/2.2S pistons and e cams. Match porting, webers, not much else. Plenty of torque on the street, was awesome for autoX. I had the original six, no flares with and 7" fuchs. At one autoX, I let the top time of the day driver (driving a highly modified no $ spared 911 with huge wheels & tires) take me for a fun run. With both of us in the car, he beat his top time of day by half a second. I eventually sold this car to a friend of mine who has raced it successfully in SCCA and PCA with many wins. Great combo, very reliable, streetable, not big $. You could add more cam but I was happy with the drivability of the "E" cams. hth

The fun of the whole thing is building it. I've built several. I have a vision and then run with it. I lost my ass on all but one. That one was bought by the Pesi Cola Bottling Co. I got tired of selling them when I was done. This time I promised myself I'd buy a car that I loved (914). Then I would go nuts and build my dream car. I don't want someone elses car. I don't want to wreck an original 6 nor do I have the cash for one. I want to build the car I have. A rust free 73 Zambesi (always loved that color). It was bent up but I straightened it out and I only need a couple of pieces to complete it. I have a 911 front suspension. I'm going 5 lug. I'm halfway there already. As mentioned in the first post, I have the 911 performance handbook. I'm reading it now. I was just hoping to get some instant gratification from the knowledgeable 6 guys here. I guess I was looking for a recipe. Using this block, with these pistons and this cam, will give you this.

Like I said. I know nada about the 6. I was hoping for a quick education.

Here is what I would do if I were going to build a small motor..

Start with a sand cast aluminum case (68 or older).

Get a 2.2S crank and rods.

2.7S pistons and cylinders.

2.7 S heads drilled for twin plug.

Turbo oil pump.

Do all the recommended case mods.

906 cams.

MFI with either high butterfly or slide valve stacks.

Twin plug distributor.

It would look something like this......

Click to view attachment

What you get is a 2.5 short stroke screamer that wont pull down low, but will really come on strong when you get it on the cams.....

Thanks. That's what I'm looking for. I like carbs but MFI works for me too. It's spendy but I'm somewhat familiar with it. I had an Alfa with it.

Jim you've been in the middle of that conversion for awhile now. What was that 4 years ago you were over here.

Alpha-Romeo MFI only has one throttle body, the 911 MFI has six. It is a whole nother animal when you have to get correlation done on all six throttle bodies.

And I think I have one of two or 3 914s with MFI. Love it... Personally I think it is MUCH better than carbs.

And if you want the high butterflies, then you are talking 2500.00 for just the stack setup. If you want the slide valves, well, they are unobtanium. So you better befriend a machinist who can make you a set.

Good luck and keep us posted.

OK, Now I see that you are already committed to the Zambizi and have the suspension. Buy Larry's 3.2 and you a Big step forward. If you start a build on a motor, commit at least $10k. Larry's 3.2 will give you power and reliabilty. Have Dr Evil build your 901 and maybe have a spare

Have fun and thank your lucky stars that you have a wife like that.

T.C.

Brian,

Yep...i had a few diversions over the years. Last time I saw you I had the 911 donor and the 4 was still in the car. But now I have ALL the parts, engine is out and sold, the 911 was totally parted out (that alone took a good year...won't do that again!) and sold off...I'm now rounding 3rd base and heading for home!

I vote for a big /6. Moah power, yet reliable. And they come with all the perks of a modern FI system.

I get better fuel mileage in my 914 with the 3.6L than i get in my 2002 Jetta.

Andy

I guess I'm old school where induction is concerned. I understand carbs and MFI. You don't need a degree in electronics to tune or fix them. You just need to be mechanically inclined. Plus carbs or MFI are period correct for the vision I have for the car.

I did mine a few years ago. Yes the parts are expsnsive but if you look around you can find bargins. I used the Patrick bar and I have not had problems. I am running a 3.0 with 40mm PMO's. I had the dist recurved at I.A.E. in Detroit. Barry is great to work with. I also used a Patrick modified oil cooler with AN fitting. Stock oil tank. Runs great and is a lot of fun on the track. Next is bigger wheels and tires, hard to keep up with 205/50 15 in the corners.
Good luck
Van914

I intially told you this.




Then Clay comes along and makes me do the Mental Math - You Bastard

Go Back to my Plan A; Buy somebody else's car

T.C.

QFT

unless it just that YOU want the pride in going all the little things involved in a conversion. then it's not about money, tho

I think I already said this... but in a long winded fashion.........

How about with webers till I get a MS twin plug system set up.....

For me it's all about the build. Buying someone elses conversion just doesn't do it for me. I'm sure your correct that I'd be money ahead. It's just not an option for me.

That is some funny cheet man

I'm about 7.5k deep into my conversion and almost completed. It has taken a complete year, patience, awesome finds, and every cash side job I could find but I'm nearly there.

Do it.

I'm going to do it. One year is out for me. I'm thinking more like 3 to 5 years. Until I get heat in the garage working in the winter is out of the question. Winter up here is at least 6 months long. Buying the furnace for the garage is taking a backseat to buying the 6. I gotta have my priorities.