Looking to refinish my intake runners. What is closest matte/low gloss finish you guys have found? Does it need to be a high temp paint? Is it the same as the muffler paint? Danka

There's a Duplicolor engine paint that is close in color, but too shiney. The closest thing I've found is cold galvanizing paint.

A pic of the actual OE finish might help Tod, myself & others on this.

I thought it was close to the grey on the mufflers on mine??

In which case, there was that paint from the 356 resto place here:
http://www.nlaparts.com/store/exhaust-grey-paint-p-653.html

It was recco'd a while back on another O&H thread for proper paint on mufflers,

It's a little more of a blue grey than the muffler from what I recall, but seems quite close. Perry, by chance do you have a manufacturer & paint code for that? I see Wurth makes a grey vw laquer, but I'm guessing it would be a gloss.
Tom, mine were also refinished in a light grey gloss which I don't like.

Just googled it. The different brands vary abit in tint. This one seems close after looking at the engine thread.
http://www.zrcworldwide.com/a_rail.asp

Surprisingly enough I found Rustoleum has a grey in their " Professional " line that is pretty damn close. I put it side by side to the factory paint and was pleased

Tod, mine were never refinished & the cropped pic below I just found for you of my early-73 914-2.0's engine bay with a peek at them FYI. It almost looks like a satin or low-sheen grey enamel, but that could also be due to years of use & the mechanics cleaning them with stuff between 11/72 & 5/85 when it was a DD.

Click to view attachment

BTW - Wurth also makes a flat or satin grey, but I don't think it's hi-temp, & then there are several other hi-temp greys in flat & satin around.

IMHO - I don't think it was OE a zinc, but I could call my mechanic tomorrow & ask him if he recalls (Hans is an old hand German factory trained on the 914s)??

Hope this helps!

Don't ask how the H**L that leaf got in there, it's been on blocks in the Garage for 24 years, & only out a couple of times to change out the oil, etc.! ....must've dropped in from the tree above the garage/driveway then!

Thanks guys. Scotty I was looking at the Rustoleum site. Tons of greys on there. By chance would still know which one it was? Looks like they have code numbers on the cans. Thanks.
Perry I tried that Ford Grey Engine Enamel for a pair of Boges and the branch tubes for the heating. It's close for the duct work, but abit light for the shocks. I'll tell you, these paints they used are extremely difficult to match. Especially the engine tin. Close, but no cigar.

Let me know when you find one for these & the engine tin, as I'll need to do mine too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerizing ? maybe ?

Wurth zinc spray is dead on down to the exact texture and the original stuff the factory used. Plenty on the shelf here at Automobile Atlanta

...Hello Tom,....well if you are going for a near concorse apperance, and you want the paint to last, and be cleanable without the paint having major problems...In other words last as long as possable, ...I would have everything powder coated. All sheetmetal, everything....Or .painted with ..."IMRON.".polyurethane enamel..Requires hardner...DUPONT product ...(if available) or equivelant. 1. most powder coating "painters" can custom match most anything. They are mixing powder colors. Have a few samples done of various "mixes" and choose the color that suits you or is "the match". 2. Have all the sheetmetal, intake runners, etc painted by a professional , color matched to original colors with a high temperature resistant paint. I have had very good results with "Imron" in the past but there are newer paints that are just as good, and less toxic. Consult a Good auto paint shop,and some "powder painting" shops. The processes, techniques, materials, and quality seem to be ever changing in a positive direction. BTW I am not a "concourse "oriented person.....for your consideration..

Murry - Thanx for the valuable input

- is that "Imron" or "Ameron" paints?

I googled for "Emron" & nothing related came up. BTW - my wife's Dad was an exec for Ameron in Little Rock, but they're now owned by another conglomerate, but if it was them, I can ask my brother-in-law in LR what they're called now, since he lives near the plant.

Tod - one thing I'm mindful of - as Murry stated - is the long term care & longevity of the coatings which we use on our "Babies" - perhaps more so with me since I have & plan to keep mine "forever", whereas yourself & others have rolled through a few 914s.

In that light, the OE coating on mine looks at least "semi-shiny" probably do facilitate cleaning oil & engine gunk off of it. A pure flat finish won't clean up well at all & tends to grip the crud! ....not too dissimilar from using semi-gloss or gloss paint in a kitchen or bathroom.

If George says the Wurth Zinc is dead on the OE, then that's probably the "A Ticket" & it will preserve them due to the high zinc content in that primer/finish.

I have the Wurth distributor not too far from here. I tried that zinc paint once from them and it would brush off with your hand. Must of got a bad batch. Maybe I give that a try. All the high temp grey paints seem to be gloss.

... oops.....Had to go get the can out to remember the spelling , post revised for added info......

FYI y'all - Imron polyurethane 2-part paint by Dupont (one of the high end resto/body-&-paint shops' highly recommended brands - along with PPG (as well as some Euro brands for Porsches, etc.).

http://www2.dupont.com/Products/en_RU/Imron_en.html

BTW minor factoid - this polyurethane paint/coating of today is based on the patents by my Dad & some other chemists at Koppers in Pittsburgh PA dating from the late 1950s-60s. He had my brothers & I help him as kids to paint every 3rd board to panel our basement with the polyurethane varnish which we all see/use today, each being a 1 pt. can of a different formula, to test them out! He passed last Dec 08, but he told my kids about it, & we stopped by the old house there to trade that story & some advice on groundwater leakage problems for the current owner, for showing my kids & I the house & basement with the paneling still intact & in good shape for45+ years old!

...TOM.. very cool, history Your dad was a , genus, genious, gennus...OH HELL ...smart . (just where is the spell checker, damn it!!!!..)...BTW bet your dad had the place well ventilated......THIS IS IMPORTANT....when using IMRON. use it in a very well ventilated area., or outside (like I did.) wearing a filter mask is absolutely essential.....This stuff can kill you if used in an enclosed area w/o ventilation....RUMOR HAD IT,.... that very unfortunate things can happen if you DISREGUARD the DANGER warning on the IMRON paint can. I used IMRON on all engine sheetmetal, for years, and never had any heat discoloration problems, fading, chalking, etc. etc. the Stuff,s bullit proof. The phisolophy of do it once , do it right , To me , certainly applies to IMRON.

Oh heck, he's dead now, spelling won't matter - I'm sure he knows what you mean!

Those formulations were in the can & 1 part, so less VOCs (as are the newer Imron II products at their website), & we just brushed it on with the doors & windows open in warm weather......but then we didn't think of such things back then!

It doesn't seem to have affected me much though!

Very cool story Tom. I got a responce from ZRC in regards to their product. So a nogo on that one.
" Hi again, Mr. Worden.
I apologize for the delay; I wanted to run this past our chemist.
He thinks you’d be much better off using an automotive engine paint that’s made for high heat. The reason is this: When the car is on, the engine heats up. Then when you turn it off it cools down. That makes the coating expand and contract. And that will cause the ZRC to flake off. So you’re better off having the automotive engine paint that is only a barrier paint but will stay on than a galvanizing coating that won’t last.

Sorry we can’t help you with this one.



Lorraine DeWald

ZRC "

George - just to clarify for both Tod & myself, based on that reply from ZRC on the cold zinc process they have -
The Wurth won't flake off & is a heat resistant coating - correct??

Otherwise, if heat/cold cylcling is a problem, then a Hi-Temp engine or Exhaust paint with similar color & some zinc in the formula may be a better choice???

Thinking their brand isn't weld through. Some of the others have higher temp ratings.

This is the the stuff I used! None ledt, so I can't quote numbers.

Unfortunately, and stupis for me, I made the decision to clear coat the Rusto (used Rusto clear). Fine for 5-6 years, but has tellowed - so I'll need to redo the whole thing.

There was a thread about this, about 18 months ago, and someone had come up with the apparent original finish paint from VW.

Might want to make a search.
Pat

Sorry I don't recall which specific grey it was. I just saw it at Lowe's and tried it.

As for Imron, it is very dangerous stuff, and while it is a great paint I would advise against using it, just due to the hazards. I shot one car with it and will not use it again. It gave me a pounding headache and put me to sleep for about 2 hours. Later I worked at a shop and was talking to the owner about it and he told me he actually passed out after walking out of the booth. His brother found him and got him to the E-room. Luckily it is only about 3 blocks from the shop. NASTY stuff. Also had an old timer tell me he had the stuff show up on an X-ray coating the inside of his lungs. He shot ALOT of it in the 70's.

Found the link Pat. Looks like the perfect match.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=69514&hl=

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsL...fm?ID=PAINTL249

Guess that's what I'll be ordering. Thanks for the help guys. The Engine detail site also mentions " The original color for the engine tin, valve covers, etc was L41 Black "

Thanks for the research Mike.

Click to view attachment

Hmmmm.....bet his lungs never rusted!
...sorry, couldn't resist being an ole kurr dawg!


I think the newer IMRON II is probably less caustic with the lower VOCs to meet the new Euro stds., but then it's not made for engine parts & hi-temp anyway, I wouldn't think IMHO!?

I'll ask Mike Moore how it held up.

Man, this sh*t's great at these links Tod, Pat, Mike & all those without the "half-zymers" which I have!

....hmmmm, better not let the wife know its a bus/van engine, or she'll have me detailing the engine on her DD 88 Westy!

She pulled that trick when I was looking for the replacement set of Fuchs for the 914, & had to also get her a set of the OE Vanagon Alloys too - Geesh!!!!

Scotty, I'll try a couple different ones, once I get a can of the vw paint to see if I can find a high temp match like you did.

I put together a color chart of Tiger Drylac powder coat colors compared to an original runner as well as the dove grey painted one. I'm going to pick up a can of the Wurth zinc and see how it compares.

Click to view attachment

Tod, to my eye the OE intake has more of a bluish undertone to the grey, while Dove Grey repainted ones have more of a greenish undertone ~ i.e.: it probably has some yellow in the tint base to make it a warm grey, vs. the bluish cool grey of the OE ones.

That may help you in looking at various color wheels/sample & in explaining the grey you want to replicate to paint/powder-coat retailers/mfgrs. There may also be a cost effective custom direct color match available from the powder coatings &/or spray paints (former from powder coaters & latter probably only from auto paint supplier &/or paint/body shops).

Great Chart!

The powder coat choices didn't have much in the blueish tints available.

I think Scotty? said they were custom mixable, & some of the ones out here do so, all probably for this very reason of matching an existing paint/coating. They all also sell a range of standard colors, but you have to ask about their capability to "match to color" with both powder & paint. Not all shops/suppliers will do it, so you'd have to hut for one if the current guys you're currentlytalkig to do not.

It's like the difference of going into the paint store with a color to match for your home, vs. a now very wide range of pre-mixed & pre-formulated colors (where they mix it there from the color swatch you pick of a tint/color formula).

I had some intake runners and the full exhaust system done in Techline Colorgard, 'Titanium' color.

Its a ceramic coating made for high heat and it is dead-on correct match for the original grey color, sheen and texture. You can install it yourself, but its better to bake it on, I would recommend having a shop do it.

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm

Thanks Jeff. By chance could you post a picture? I just finished taking mine off so will be looking at making a decission soon. Sounds like that would be a much better solution than paint.

Here you go Tod. These are the cermaic coating Techline Colorgard, 'Titanium' color. My exhust is also done in these HEs, muffler, and all the ducting that was originally grey.

Jeff,

Never thought I'd see the day that we disagree on originality.....but that day is here.

Assuming I can take the pics as reasonably accurate, the color is too dark, and there's way too much texture. Also, the stuff is on the mounting threads, which will, unless removed, change the torque characteristics.

Sorry, doesn't work for me. No further comment needed for the rest of the exhaust & heating components.
Pat

I can see why you might say that Pat, looking at those photos I posted. But I did a side by side comparison with some that are original finish in the same light a few years ago and it is an excellent match in color, texture and gloss, to my eye. I don't have an original set anymore to make a photo. I have also noticed a range of different original color intake runners over the years, from a light dusty gray to the medium greys maybe you have also?

I dont have any good photos of the finish on early-cars, unkless it matches the 1973 colors below, but this matches my 1974 cars...

Here are 2 from 1973 cars:

And two from 1974 cars:

Jeff thanks for posting. I picked up the two offerings of Wurth zinc spray. I'll post a color comparrison test next week. The red 73 that you posted is my new one. The runners on that have a gloss light grey repaint, which is not correct. The underside of the runners still have that medium blue/green/grey color. That's what I'll be redoing, to get it closer to the bottom pictures you added. I found some very close powder coats, but I think they might end up being too glossy in appearance.

Mine are the same as on your 73's Jeff & Tod & Pat.....I even have the same air-cleaner top with the diamond pattern!

Stoddards: NLA Grey...One set of those intake tubes are way too shiney..
it was more of a matte finish.....Quarts or spray cans..
Ask for Maurice....Yes it is high temp too....

Here's more reference of original paint runners. 1974 2.0.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

1975 2.0

Click to view attachment

2 ebay cars, unknown years.

Click to view attachment

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Check here at about 1/2 way down for the engine bay pix. The one from the passenger/R side is probably more color correct on the grey, as the driver/L side angle sees to be picking up some greenish tint in the lighting (plus Steve's camera was malfunctioning at that point IRRC).

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...01921&st=40

In both cases they are a satin or mild-flat or low-luster paint, which can get shiny from both over cleaning actually "polishing" the finish smoother, &/or from the oil film settling on engine parts & adhering to the more pourous ones, as is common with all air/oil cooled engines (a good percentage of the 914's cooling is by oil).

I don't believe that the OE paint was a full rough flat paint as we buy in rattle-cans today at the local auto store - but rather a mildly flat, satin, low luster, low gloss, or whatever "name" you want to hang on it.

BTW all - a trip through all the pix of Steve's Sahara Beige 73 2.0 is well worth the time it takes, for a time capsule of unmolested 914 excellence & originality!!

Looking up at the 2 examples above with the black grease/oil smudges, etc. - it shows what I'm talking about, especially the shininess of the upper example shows how the film can make the OE low luster finish look shinier, as well as darkening the grey itself.