Still debating to build a 2.0 or 2.4 or 2.7 or say fuch it sell it all and get a 3.0
To me the bottom line $$$ looks almost the same.

For a 3.0:
What would I need to keep for the clutch and PP (9bolt fly) that works on a 901?
What would I need to buy from KEP?

Should I be grabbing anything else from the donor engine ?

I'm looking a a few engines,
#1 a 3.2 that's a bit beyond my budget,
#2 an unknown 3.0 longblock core, spins fine, I suspect a broke headstud(s)
#3 a good used stock 3.0 euro sc with CIS,
#4 a hot rod 3.0 with webers newer top end w/JE's

I'm reading all the pro's and cons, yes JP.... Santa did bring me Wayne's book
What would be your order on my engine choice list above?

Cheers

KEP has a starter ring gear and hardware that you need to use the 3.0 flywheel. I can't remember which pressure plate it uses, the 901 one or the 915 one but the 915 plate actuates opposite the 901 plate. Pull vs push.
The hodrod 3.0 would be the most fun but probably the most trouble too, kind of like a girlfriend with tattoos.

I would/did go for an early 3.0 with cis, it has TONS of power and torque
fitting the cis without cutting the trunk wall took dropping the drive train mounts one inch, and a modified shift bar, but i am happy with it
but i am saving my pennies to convert it to a 3.4/cis one day
But the aluminum block is an easy choice.
buy the 3.0 euro run it for a while
I think the only issue i had with mating it was solved with a phone call to KEP and ordering a few parts

When I first used my 3.0 I had my 901 modified to use the 225mm pressure plate and disc. It involved relocating the throw out bearing pivot bolt location. I used a 911 clutch cable, TO bearing arm, TO bearing, 225mm PP and puck disc. I broke a couple of pivot bolts and had the bearing come off the arm. On my car now I ordered a kit from Patrick Motorsports to use the 3.0 flywheel, 901 TO bearing/arm, PP and puck disc. The kit came with a ring gear, PP, puck disc, and TO bearing. I'm now using a regular 901 tranny with no mods like the other tranny had. Use the KEP or PM kit and you'll have no problem with a 3.0 or larger engine with a 901.

The 3.0L is the bestest Porsche air cooled motor.
#4
#3 actually, this is a toss up assuming they are good motors. 4 for beans, 3 for
crusin'.....tho a fresh top end sounds good to me. Pickem'

KEP will sell you a 9 bolt flywheel that allows you to use all the stock linkage & stock style clutch package.
I was very happy with their Stage I PP and a 6 spring disc.

Enjoy

Number 3 and 4 are the ones that I'm debating over

My 2 cents ( it's all I have left after this GT conversion ) I am using a 1978 911 SC 3.0 ( big port ) with 40mm Weber carbs on my conversion. I am using a 901 transmission and the stock 3.0 915 flywheel. I contacted Kennedy and told them what I was doing and they suggested their ring gear,stage II pressure plate,clutch disc and throw out bearing. I ordered what they suggested and my mechanic installed everything and it all fit like a glove. My car should be running this week so I'll know how well it all works but my mechanic stated it was all high quality stuff and " dry runs " using the clutch it all seems to work smoothly. I personally think the 3.0 is one of the best Porsche engines ever built and they can be had for decent price. I bought mine 2 years ago for $3000.00 but it did not include induction system but I wasn't going to use CIS anyway. The 78-79 years have larger intake valves than the 80-83. The 78-79 will make a little more hp but the 80-83 tend to make better torque. I have a 83SC with 46mm PMO carbs and she runs just fine . Good luck with whatever you choose.

KEP Stage II, Starter Ringgear, Pressure Plate, 6-Spring Clutch and Throwout Bearing.

Bolted right up to my stock (lightened) 3.6L flywheel on one end and my stock 901 on the other end.

Andy

I'll accept that the Stage II set-up works fine. At the time, I didn't know how much force it took to disengage the Stage I clutch.....with the known deficiencies of the 914 clutch linkage. All this was done in my pre-internet days when information was scarce. It has held the power fine for 11 years. I took it out when rebuilding the motor a couple winters back......looked it & the flywheel over and slapped it back in.

Take a good look at your linkage, tube & all before committing.

What is the $damage on that set up?

I don't remember. It's been a while ...

Here's what I payed for my setup:

Ring gear adapter ring $151.00 from a forum user.
Stage II 9 " heavy duty pressure plate $225.00
228mm clutch disc $85.00
T.O. bearing $91.00

These prices were on March of 2008.

Here's a copy of my invoice from Patrick Motorsports dated 4/14/08. Kit for 3.0 flywheel and 901 tranny. Works great even with the puck disc with street use....

Click to view attachment

WOW I'm glad I bought from Kennedy ! The Patrick setup is pricey.

Get #3 or #4 with a gaurantee, and the package from Kennedy.

If you know anything about #4, the Webers are good and it's driveable, that's what I'd opt for. CIS isn't bad, but you can add significant power with the right package of pistons and cams for a 3.0 that'll require carbs.

Reinforce your clutch tube or put together a hydraulic, and make sure your pedal cluster is rebuilt, there's more stress on that with a heavier pressure plate.

Did you factor in that anything over 2.7 will need external cooling (more $$$).?

Here's my thinking on a 3.0
I have a 2.0 and a 2.7 both will need case work, both need pistons and cylinders.
I have a lot of the fix'ins for a nice 2.0 69S hot rod engine, I have the cylinders but JE pistons and mods will be at least another $2K to finish. 170-180hp is nice but it would be a 5-7k rpm screamer.
The 2.7 (or a 2.4) would cost about $4K to finish and I'd have find some use nicasils for JE's

OR I can sell everything I have for a nice little profit (even in todays economy), at minumum get my coin back. Add a bit of coin and I'm into a runner saving me a huge chunk of time on the conversion.


I doubt they will guarantee, but both are upstanding bird members.
The hotrod 3.0 is fresh top end JE's and cams with dyno papers but would be a major stretch on my budget.

The used CIS is a strong runner, the engine is in the sideswiped 911 and is going into an independent 911 shop for a leak down test at the owners insistence. This one I can have at a fair price and should have enough coin left over for the other needed bits. Plus I should still have my webers for a future upgrade.


I know a few guys running a 3.0 without an extra cooler, but I do have an RX-7 cooler so it would cost some welding and the lines.
The bigger issue to me is cutting into my rust free (I know there has to be some) mint front end for the cooler.

You can put a 24 row Mocal oil cooler in the right rear quarter panel, basically in the same location as the oil tank, but on the passenger side. Unless you are doing a lot of track events, it will work fine there, just make a stone shield.

For a CIS engine you can get away with no cooling (from what I have read). This is why I went 2.7 with CIS (and because the whole thing was free only needing a complete rebuild).

Get the 3.0 CIS, but realize that you will need different pistons if you wish to add carbs and gain hp. It would still be a good start

This is most of my logic, just get a good runner going and then maybe one day hop it up a bit. The engine is a euro spec 83 SC (9.3:1cr) so it's just a hair under 200hp new. At the clinic Walter had no extra cooler in his. I'd do the 2.7 but it needs pistons and cylinders and a lot of machine work, plus I like the idea of a aluminum case over mag.
All of this still depends on the leak down test.

The other lead I have is an engine that needs a rebuild (or top end), might be able to build my own hot rod engine for a bit less, BUT would it be done on time for May?

I would like to be next season.

I agree with your logic. If the 3 CIS doesnt pass the leak down, you may be able to get it for less and redo the top end and save some $$, too.

Still got them rectal horseshoes I see

A cool running engine is a long running engine. The 2.7L 911s came with no aux cooler and we all know how they held up. The 3.0L had a "trombone" aux cooler and they had few problems with heat......but a lot of guys sweated blood watching the temp gauge rise while stuck in traffic. Aux coolers are kinda like a seat belt....you don't need it till ya *need* it.

JP you're such a buzz kill

Man.... there has to be a way of doing a front cooler without cutting the shit out of the front end
What about the trombone cooler...it's just bent tubing, couldn't I do a bigger loop or loops?




I don't know about the horseshoes....I didn't have a 3.0 given to me

I did say if the numbers are not great we'll have to talk. I don't know if the topend would be cheap even with me doing the labour. My guess would be around 2K done right, plus the price of the "core".

You can always do the cooler under the rear trunk.

[quote name='Mark Henry' date='Dec 30 2009, 03:20 PM' post='1256535']
JP you're such a buzz kill

Man.... there has to be a way of doing a front cooler without cutting the shit out of the front end

Mark I had the same concern and here is what I did. Yes I had to cut the valance ( not finished yet ) but on the tub I just had to drill four holes. It's not for everyone but I like it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=100692&hl=

It's a dirty job, but I ain't running for office.

There are any number of things that may work....most of which I have considered.
One was under the rockers (with suitable cooling holes cut into them) and some of that finned bronze pipe...up one side & down the other.

Various mounting points toward the rear....but I needed the cooling for my hot rod motor...no maybes to waste time on. My cooler ended up in the nose where I *knew* it would get the most available air flow. The engine seldom gets over 100C under all conditions.....and, it lives.

OK, so I'm overly picky about some things, but cool is cool....the hell with some mostly hidden sheet metal. I wasn't making the car out to be an investment I was building a hot rod...like you are. Still got $20K for it.

Damn...just got offered another engine

79 3.0SC, us spec, guy says it ran fine but doesn't know the history before him. He said he moved up to a 3.2 (now his backup) and he now has a 3.6. He's been using it as his mock-up engine, but doesn't need 3 engines. Waiting for his asking price. Big port heads. All studs are perfect on the intake and exhaust. local.
10 fins, so low cr alusil jugs

What's this worth?

As a point of reference I purchased a 1978 3.0 with complete exhaust but no intake system for $3000.00. It was a clean good running motor with aprox. 96,000 miles on it. From the picture this engine may have had an EFI system on it ? I see the Clewett bottom pulley with a 36-1 wheel and what looks to be a optic pickup to the left?

Wish I could find a sub 100K mile engine for $3000. Anyone got one to sell for that price? I'll even ship it across the border.

It's never ran with this set-up, but both his 3.2 and 3.6 run crankfire.
It's his mock up engine or he said you could also call it his #3 backup engine.
My concern is the unknown milage and alusils. On something like this I would like to one day hop it up a bit with a top end job and JE's, so these jugs would be NG.

To me it's a core, but he didn't like that point and I had to smooth the talk back to positive.
Waiting to see what his price is. Might know tonight.


See Evil, no horseshoes

Can someone like EBS or LN Engineering take alusil cylinders and turn them into nickies ? Seems to me I read that they can but not sure or if it's cost effective. I searched many forums to find my 3.0 and I had to drive to North Carolina to pick it up. Deals are out there you have to keep looking and I guess have some luck. Good luck with your search.

They do but I think it would be more cost effective to find a good used set and get JE's made. Don't know for sure on price of this.

I just sold a set of core alusils to EBS. They probably have to grind off the alusil before putting on nikasil and this increases costs, but I think they reallocate costs so that by the time they go up for sale it doesn't matter what they once were.

Of course he didn't like it, but informed people know that to be a fact......if you can't see & hear it run, it's a core. Speaking of buzz killers, you fit the mold.

EBS does Nikasil plating for 150 bucks per cylinder if you supply cores...including Alusils, I'm told....another 100 bucks ea if you have no cores. I've never had it done but was looking into it at one point. I've heard of a couple problems with the plating but they were fixed expeditiously. I did have them do my heads and they done gud. JEs are 1k per set last I looked.....but tell em' you want Gotze rings.
I ruint a set of cyls with them effin' Deves style.

$3K is a good price.

My experince is 3. litre (or 2.7 ) on track needs front cooler. I tried not cutting but finally said six makes it non stock anyway. Difference is amazing and as you know heat is the enemy !

You can't "Grind off" Alusil. It is the base material. I assume they bore all the jugs to insure cylindricity before plating, then hone to size. They earn their money making these things.

I have a set of boogered up 90mm NIkasil jugs settin' on the shelf that I was thinking of selling to em' but, once gone......damn, I gotta get over thinkin' like that.
If "the kid " had of gotten all my spares, he would have them on his shelf. Can't complain, I guess, I made a couple grand selling off stuff left over. Prolly time to off the jugs too. Any one need some heat cycled out Hoosier cantis? I gots 6 of em'.....free for shipping.

Not a track car!

"Maybe" one day I'll do a DE maybe even an AX but I never have before.
I like hot motors that are streetable, you know pulls like a truck.

We'll see his price, but if I have to plate and buy JE's and he wants to much, I'm back to the price of the other hotrod engine.
Unless he'll guarantee it runs and has no stud issues....and just run it for now.

No affiliation but just came across this on Pelican.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...sassembled.html

Well, there ya go.
Tack on a rebuild kit.....bout 900 bucks
Henry's studs.....700 ish.....
and you're good to go.
I'd rather have a torn down engine than an assembled one that may hold surprises inside.

84targa has been around Pelican for a long time, long enuff to know not peddle junk. I've been around there long enuff to jump quickly on a good deal or it will disappear.
At the very least, be first in line by typing the magic words.

I bought a '81 complete core 3.0 with a good bottom end, re-used the alusil cylinders, re-built the topend. Put DC19 camshafts (about max cam you can put with cis pistons, http://drcamshafts.com ), 40mm webbers, headers and a M&K muffler. I totally love this setup.

I was on the track with a mostly stock 80 911. Got in the straight side by side and totally blew his doors off!!! He was totally suprised.

I also second the kennedy setup...

Also dont forget the holes for the front of your oil cooler are already in your car.... (atleast for 70~74 I think) Those are the little round holes in front.

Are you talking about my engine?

Get this.... the thread is back to square one.... it needs a a flywheel !

Thanks for the link but I did see it same time as you guys. It's now mine.

So a hot rod 3.0 is what I'm building, it's '79SC premo std/std core with nickisils, complete longblock except for flywheel. It was Shaun's personal project till he lucked into a deal on 2-3.2's, so it's suppose to be real nice. I'll should know real soon as he has some shipping deal and I'll have to pick up from the airport.

Went through my 2.7 stash and I already have new ramps, chains, rod bolts and nuts, cam keys and pins, intermediate bearings and tensioner update kit.

Is the opened 2.7 gasket kit any good to me? Is it the same except for the head gaskets? If not I'll sell it with the 2.7 core.

So now I need to sell all the 911 stuff I don't need for phase two.

I don't know enough about the guts of the 3.0L to give you a definitive answer.
The *gaskets* should fit, but were I in your shoes I'd buy the complete rebuild kit & sell off what you have. Everything you'll need is then in one box....and there's a shit load of "stuff".
Don't forget those studs, they are not in the kit.

What cams & pistons come with your new purchase?

Just the stockers, but it has a mint set of nickisils.

I do have a set of 67 S cams, are they all the same?

Wayne's picks engine just says early S cams. That's the engine I'm thinking of building.
I'm searching on the bird, looks like I can but ol' Henry Schmidt says beware....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...-s-cams-sc.html

Listen to Henry.....

Will do...damn list is growing

Schlippery Schlope ...

= July 2010 ... July 2011

The stock 3.0L with headers & carbs will give around 200hp.......save you a couple grand too. How fast do you want to go?

I started out with a 79 SC 3.0, spent a bunch of time on the phone with Henry.
This is what happens if your not careful .......