I know that it is a long way but our man Kirk could get your car perfectly straight again in no more than a days work and 400 bucks. He is a master

Id have to tow the car down to georgia, and that would be a lot....thats not a bad idea. I would bring the car down as a bare chassis, no motor, trans or suspension. Thats what were working on now...we accidentally broke one of the sway bar bolts head off. I may be able to pull that off, my brother lives in athens, i could just make a trip to see him and take the car to you guys as well. What if kirk would have to cut the car, would that add to the expense?

Rick, how about getting access to the one you know of long anough to get some god pictures and measurements. There isn;t that much there, and a bench could easily be replicated by you, or any one of us with the tools and experience. I know, I for one would have enough use to build one. I would imagine Perry might be interested too The the only issue is the fixtures........

I bet Andy could get some detailed pics of the bare bench.

Rich

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Feb 23 2010, 06:57 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Rick, how about getting access to the one you know of long anough to get some god pictures and measurements. There isn;t that much there, and a bench could easily be replicated by you, or any one of us with the tools and experience. I know, I for one would have enough use to build one. I would imagine Perry might be interested too The the only issue is the fixtures........
[/quote]


Here's what I know about the bench. The early Celettes have a machined deck like decking a cylinder head. The fixtures bolt to the cross beams. The early fixtures are like the ones in Sir Andy's photos. The later model Celettes have a standard upright fixture set that is part of the bench when you purchase it. The fixtures bolt to the top of the uprights. This only requires a large suit case of tops not and entire crate of parts.

That was the drawback of the old bench was shipping the fixtures around.

I know there are 914 fixtures for the early bench. I haven't verified ther are fixtures for the redsigned bench.

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread. I should have started a new one.

how thick were the plates you welded on?
regardless its going to take a great deal of force to bend the chassis back.
having worked on 914s structurally i dont think there is a good way to do this. by bending the chassis with the plates intact you are only stretching(weakening) the structure somewhere else. you best bet would be to slash cut your plates. if you can do that that will relieve the stress on the chassis then see how much(if any) the chassis corrects. if it dosent correct enough then id think about straightening and welding the plates while the chassis is on the fixture.

you said you replaced part of the body structure prior to plating correct? when you set the door gaps were the adjustments at their limits?
what welder and settings did you use to weld the plates on?

if this is an AX car or something you might as well cage it now and not deal with this problem again later.

did you weld the car on the ground? or on a lift? with or without suspension?

-jim

I'm near a deal on the Celette.

so heres the plan that we finally came up with. My dad and i are going to try and fix the problem ourselves...we figured ive put enough work into it so far to at least give this a shot. if we can't fix it, then we will resort to a frame rack, and since rick is getting closer to a deal with the celette i would take it up there. If he does not make the deal, i would haul it to AA, sooner or later my car will be straight again.

Next week were gonna start trying to fix the car.

Use the chassis measurements listed here on the site. Measure everything twice and take your time. If you screw it up your no further off than you are now. Just be sure you check the car to be sure you know of the rear section is tipped forward or if the cowl is tipped back before you start trying to move things around.

Rick , I hope you get a bench ,
AArron @ Fat Six has a bench and the rental center for fixtures is in illinios.
http://flat6.com/?page_id=11

I have an old Blackhawk bench, that I'm nearly certain will work with Celette fixtures. Where do you rent the fixtures?

Greg Fritz

Sales and Technical Support

630-396-6100 ext 6170 Office
630-495-4078 Fax

www.celette-na.com

Thanks Rick! I felt kinda stupid after my post, as I found your prior post with his contact info

I spoke with Greg and it looks like the Celette fixtures will fit my bench!!

Didn't someone copy the fixture dimensions in CAD??? That would be way coooool.

We didn't have enough time and Mueller somehow wasn't too excited about doing all the grunt work himself. Go figure ...

Andy

update: the drivers side door fits properly, shimmed the bottom and it works the way it should. All i have to worry about now is getting the passenger side door to shut and the targa top to fit correctly. I know the problem with the targa top is the the car actually rotated on an axis slightly. The top latches securely with three latches, but the passenger side one won't line up. You can also see the top overhangs the rollbar on the passenger side and doesn't line up there. My question is should i start with the targa top first and get that to fit correctly or work on the door? Either way i have to cut out some metal, just wondering if one should be done before the other.

My plan to get the targa top to fit would be to push under the corner of the car and rotate the car back the other direction. Cut the car almost in half(leave the center tunnel alone and intact), but the floor pans and longs would be cut. Then with a bottle jack, jack up the opposite side of the car(drivers side) rotating the chassis back into alignment. Measuring along the way from rollbar to door hinge plate, so things line up.

For the door, it would be similar but jacking the car apart parallel to the door opening itself. Since the door hangs down, at the back, having the car twisted back into alignment should fix, if not repair, that problem. I know the door opening has to be pushed further apart because the triangular window hits the windshield frame. This is where jacking the car apart in the door opening comes in, jack the car apart, somehow hold that spacing and place the door back on and make sure everything lines up.

I am open to any comments anyone has to modify my methods. I thought i would start this next week, but i have spring break from the 8th thru the 12th, plenty of time then to work on this.

Let me try to break this down for you if I can. Porsche doors don't get shims. If the door required shims on the lower hinge the car is bent.

Here's a crude drawing of what you should try based on your discription.

Click to view attachment

Get a hand pump port-o-power and carefully set it up in the car. The lower should be on top of the long in the corner against the rear bulkhead. The other end should be against a wood block about the height of the upper hinge. Take a mm tape measure and check your progress.

that is exactly what my passenger side door looks like when its on...that description worked perfectly, thank you. Would the method i described for the targa top going back into place work? Jack the opposing side so the car twists back into alignment.

When you show, make the cut in the metal, should i just make a slot on the bottom and follow it up around the corners or cut the hole thing all the way around?

Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's another crude sketch. I assume you used something like the Engman kit for a chassis stiffening kit. If you did just cut vertically through the kit as shown in red.

Also you seem to be saying the windsheild is off center from the targa bar.

The measurements should show the right side from the targa bar to the WS frame should be shorter than the left side. Also the diagonal should show the measurement from the right WS corner to the left targa bar should be shorter than the left SW to right targa.

So. As you push the cowl forward and even out the targa top opening the diagonal should straighten.

what your saying is fixing the door, should also fix the targa top as well? makes sense....thanks again. Ill give this a try in about a week!!!!!

Yes. That's what I'm saying. And remove the shims from the drivers door. It's bassackwards but fit the doors to the fenders then adjust he cowl to match the doors to the latch pillar.

Before you start trying to tweek the bottom of the car. (Which could be off by the way) I'm much less suspect of the platform having a twist than I am the upper body, Start as I instructed.

1.) make a diagram. Stick people work just fine.

2.) Confirm the cowl is back. From your discription this seems to be the case.

3.) confirm the rear body is not tipped forward or sagged. Doesn't sound like it is from your discription.

4.) Start by cutting only through the reinforcements you installed at the cowl.

5.) Start on the passanger side. (the worst side as you discribed)

You will notice as you move the cowl forward on the passenger side the driver side will move.

Think of a wire cube. If you push on one corner the whole cube moves. Uni-body cars are the same way.

Take your time. Think it through. Move the damage back. You will notice you will need to move push past the desired measurement because the car will act like a spring.

Good luck.

I want to give a big thanks to everyone that helped me out in this situation. the doors now work properly, the top fits better than when i originally bought the car. The chassis is rigged, but not twisted or bent anymore. the car is on the ground and all the doors work!

So tell us what you did!

I second that above request Great news, now what did ya do ?

i did exactly what rick told me to do, i used a bottle jack, instead of the port-o-power, and pushed daigonally across the door jam. I had to cut both sides of the car at the same spot. When i cut the drivers side, all the stress was relieved and the car would move around in any way we wanted to. Along with jacking diagonally across the door jam we also pushed up from underneath, with another jack. At this point the targa top wouldn't fit correctly, but the doors shut. To get the top to fit, i placed a jack stand on the drivers side trailing arm mount. this pushed that corner of the car up, slightly rotating the car making the targa top fit way better then it did before. AFter everything was lined up how we wanted it, i started welding. switched sides this time, so the car wouldn't twist again. Got everything welded up, put the tires on and the car back on the ground and everything still works. I can now move onto the next project, bodywork and replacing the windshield. I actually managed to get the windshield out by myself. I have always wanted to redo that piece of vinyl thats right there underneath the windshield, so now is the best time to do it. And the seal that goes down there was as hard as a rock. I saved myself the 175 dollar of having someone else install the windshield, now i can spend it on a new lower seal

Once again a BIG THANK YOU to everyone that has helped out. I may get lucky enough to drive the car sometime in may to school again.