I braced the chassis, but obviously not enough. I lined the doors up properly, had the gaps correct, and then put the braces in. I took the braces out today, and went to test fit the passenger door and it won't even come close to shutting. the door lock does not line up, i tried adjusting the hinges but had no luck. The things are way off....any one have a fix? I really don't want to buy a tub because i just put a ton of work into this one. If it comes down to buying a tub, i guess thats what ill have to do, but i really would like to avoid that.

How much is way off? You can shim the door hinges where they bolt to the pillar. A shim in the top moves the rear of the door downward, a shim in the bottom moves it upward. Tough to say without seeing it though.

If the latch is out, how does the door line up with the body ? Tight at the top or bottome? Rocked in or out at the top or bottom ? Sitting high or low of the body ? There is a fair amount of play in both the hinges and the latches. Get the door and body lined up then worry about the latches.


Best yet, post some pics.

Yeah... Take the striker out and close the door. Show us the gaps.

I did something similar wheb installing my cage. Went to a chassis shop up the street and had the fella bend the sucker. I had a tube to weld across the door gap (but down low) to hold it. It worked. I donno if it would have sprung back without the tube. Over bend (pre load) & pray is the way do do it before you do the work. Doing it after is iffy but has possibilities.

If the door is off in the up/down direction, simply open the door and grab the back and slowly pull it up until it lines up ...

That's how the body shop would fix it.
Andy

What were you welding?
Engman kit
Clamshells
Other
As said previously, you have to post some pictures

we need a bunch more info/pics.

I welded in clamshells over the longs and also put in new inner longs as well. The passenger door sits about 3/4" low at the back. The strikers are then that far off as well. I have tried pulling up on the bottom of the door, however, if i pull up too much the triangular window will just make contact with the windshield frame. ill try to get some pictures tomorrow. The door sits really low.

Shims in the bottom may help a little, but once again, too many and the window will make contact with the windshield frame. Im really excited that the chassis is super rigid, but i don't like not being able to shut my doors.

That sucks. The only real option is to cut a few slots through the new sheet metal to allow the car to spring back to its natural position. Then weld up the slots again. This time slowly. Do a couple inches, then use an air compressor to blow it cool.

the weirdest part is that the door hangs low at the back...i don't think the car is unsafe to drive, its just the doors will not line up. The chassis is way stronger than it used to be. I took some measurements, and the car has shrunk...the gap from the windshield frame to the targa bar is the only severely off measurement, everything else seems right

That's right, you've curled up the longs into a curve. The door sits low, the door opening is the wrong shape, the targa bar is too close to the windshield header, your wheel alignment is screwed.

It might be stronger, but it's definitely not better. I know this sucks to hear, but you need to try to undo this. You should cut a series of slots through the added sheet metal to relieve the stresses that you've locked into the car.

Don't bend the door! Fix the chassis. If you bend the hinges in the door frame you will build in a new problem. Someplace there are chassis dimensions. maybe here or on the bird site.

Or you can ge measurements off a known good car. Do you have a parts car with a good door opening? Even a rusted one usually had a driver side that is good (not sagging) You need to find out if the cowl is leaning back or if the latch pillar is leaning forward.

Don't assume anything check, check, check. Then cut through the chassis stiffening and use a port-o-power to adjust the gap back. You will have to push past the correct place because the car will spring back slightly wen you release the pressure.

Be sure you cut through the chassis stiffening before trying to push the car back. If you don't weaking the car you will just push damage in the car someplace else.

Good luck!

yup. show teh good chassis doctor your set up, bracing used, jack stand set up. how did you support the car.

I'm like 400 miles from you. (6 hrs) But I have a full dance card or I would gladly come down to help. Show us a couple photos maybe we can help figure out this puzzle.

Pics. You can recover from this.

http://www.914world.com/specs/bodydims.php

Find out where you are. Then you'll know where to go.

Has anyone tried bonding stiffner panels in with the panel adhesives now available?

That's a really interesting idea...

Wouldn't do it.

They are designed for adhering non-structural body parts. They require really clean non-rusty metals, our are cars are old and rusty, and the rust never sleeps.

I can guarantee that if a rust bubble forms under a glue joint that the pressure from the growing rust cell is so large that it will delaminate the joint. Might take time, but a structural use would fail just when you don't want it- ie under a cornering load.

There are stuctual aircraft adhesives, but they work on clean aluminum.

I can't offer help as I haven't been here, But I feel for you With the advise and expertise here I'm sure you'll get it sorted though..

Cut those slits cut..

So the windshield frame has come back towards the targa bar, which would explain why the pasenger door hangs low at the back. the measurement is about 1/8" off on each side. Right now i am trying to locate someone around illinois that has a frame rack and seeing what they can do. I don't want to cut anything until i get that opinion. I have ideas on how to fix it, however, to have a professional get the car dead straight is what i would rather have then me trying to pull this off. Anyone know of a place that can straighten out the frame?

At first i didn't think you could straighten a unibody car on a frame rack, but apparently its possible...just gotta find someone that can do it for me or give me their opinion.

Brad Mayeur at 914 Limited should have some idea of where you can find a rack for the car.

--DD

I used to have a Cellette. That would be the best way.

I have no problems towing the car to have it fixed, if i have to tow it 4 hours somewhere, i am fine with that. as long as it gets done correctly. The thing i don't understand is, since the car bowed into itself, how does a machine fix that?

Very powerful hydraulics. You may still need to make some cuts as recommended.

Andy can give you a very thorough explaination. His car was tweeked and "then" a cage was welded in. When he decided to have it fixed, the cutting of the cage "really" told the story of how far out they can be and what can be done to fix them properly. There's a picture here somewhere of that cut and a detailed thread on that fix.

Search (cause I'm to lazy to do it for you).

Also, that window frame doesn't really do "jack" for measurement purposes. I can bent one of those easily by hand. You'll get a bunch of various windshield frame measurements here that are probably 1/4" off. There "is" a standard top frame measurement BUT, get the proper jam measurements first and then worry about the frame.

Hit that link I sent you and get door frame measurements as Rick suggested.

I just did a Google search for "celette bench shop" and one of the first hits was this one.

celette bench

From that web site:

Click to view attachment

Looks like the best posible place to start! Even has 914 content and I didn't even include that in the search criteria!

P.S. i am just up the road from you in Madison (for now). If you ever need a hand (I'm not that useful) with a project taht requires more than 2 hands, give me a PM throught the site!

Thats cool!

That link is awsome! Read the post on the page. A Cellette rep posted is number and states he is in Lombard IL. About 75 miles from Rockford. Call him. He will know where the Cellette shops are.

What makes the celette better than othe racks? Also, is there anything that will need to be removed from the car, bumpers, suspension, etc? Id like to take the car there as a rolling chassis that way its easier to get it on the trailor. the pictures show the car as just a shell, i was hoping i could leave the suspension on.

The Cellette is a fixture type bench. The one in the photos does not show the fixtures. They are using a lazer to check the car. It seems as though the Cellette rep was offering the shop the option of renting the proper fixtures.

I'm kind of under the impression the shop in that link is selling their service as a Porsche repair shop and showing the Cellette bench but doesn't rent the fixtures when they do chassis work.

Here is a link to Sir Andy's severly bent chassis. This was repaired on a Cellette with proper fixtures. I don't know what it cost him but this is how you fix a 914. Yes you will need to drop the suspension for the fixtures.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=92489&st=

Lots more pix ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=52631

You can rent the 914 specific fixtures for the celette bench. However, there's only two or 3 distribution centers left in the whole US that still have them.

Andy

The shop in the photos is Ed Palmer's. Aka EPR (Ed Palmer Racing) Eddy is first rate. He opened a second shop dedicated to Porsche only. I would recommend him in a heartbeat. How many shops have two 917's in process other than Gunnar?

The vehicle is setup on the Cellette in preparation for correction. The Genesis laser measuring system is accurate to 1mm. The Cellette hard fixtures are accurate to 3mm. Between the two systems you are going to get as perfect as can be. If perfect existed I'd date it!

A little history here: Ed has been doing this as long as I have. Excluding the marital issues Ed eats , breathes and nightmares Porsches. Ed has produced some of wildest German monsters that any other shop can come up with. Ed has also produced some of the most perfect restorations I have seen.

Funny thing. My car was given to me by Tony Davis who worked for Ed for many years. Both go back to pre Mitcom days. Yes thats how long both have been in the business. I feel ancient now!

Very few shops own their own fixtures. Most rent them from Eurocar. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Sir andy - if you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to have the car puton the rack and be aligned?

Well, that's hard to say.

I did two cars at once. The red car took one day, the black/yellow car took 3 days.

For both cars and 4 full days of labor plus renting the Celette fixtures, my total bill was somewhere around $3000, if i recall correctly ...

Andy

does the place doing the chassis alignment rent the fixtures or is that something i have to locate?

In my case, Scott the owner of the body shop has lots of experience working on 914s (He owns two).

The way it works is that the body shop owns the Celette bench and they rent the fixtures from Celette whenever they need them. The shop took care of all that.
Getting the fixtures took a few days as there's only one Celette distributor left here on the west coast that still has the 914 fixtures.

Andy

I'd just call this guy. I'm sure he can tell you which shop in your area can bench your car.

Greg Fritz

Sales and Technical Support

630-396-6100 ext 6170 Office
630-495-4078 Fax

www.celette-na.com

Found a body shop in my area with a celette bench, made a call and the owner said that fixing the car wouldn't wouldn't happen for under 5000, more towards 10000....im not paying that kind of money to fix a 3000 car, no matter the sentimental value i have in it. Time to find a shell or fix what i got.

That's pure bullshit. They just don't want to deal with it. I am working on tracking down a Cellette bench in town here. I just spoke with a guy that used to own one. He sold it to another shop here in town. I have a call into them now. (small shop with a answering machine)

I placed a call to the Cellette rep and left him a voice mail as well. What a bunch of crap!

BTW, Fixture rental used to be 300.00- 450.00 shipped.

I had a conversation with a Cellette rep. He is emailing info about the fixture availability, location and cost. I can either get you hooked up with the local shop or if they are tired of the old Cellette collecting dust in the corner I may just purchase the thing.

This will happen whether you ever fix your car or not. I have The raspberry car with a missing front clip and Sandy's I'm picking up in Cali in like two weeks. It took a hit to the front.

Your inquiry just prompted me to do something I have been wanting to do for a long time anyway.

If you do, don't forget to make a 'backup copy' of the fixtures ...
Andy

Turnaround, What happened to the pictures you were going to post?

the pictures were on an external hard drive which makes a weird clicking noise when it starts up, the computer doesn't recognize it anymore...been going on for a couple weeks or so, my cousin is taking a look at...hopefully he can get the files off of it.

Anyway, the guy i talked to that has the celette bench has worked on multiple 911's, and seemed to know what he was talking about. His idea was to pull the whole car apart again and leave it on the frame rack and then reweld all the stuff back into the car. Lots of time right there. I made the floor pans and inner longs myself, and i really don't want to have to completely undo everything i just did. I don't mind cutting slots into the longs, but taking everything back out. no thanks

No need to rip apart all your work. It doesn't matter that you made your own pans and inner longs. The Cellette works off the suspension pickup points not the floor or longs. I suspect the cowl is leaning back which would cause the doors to sag at the rear. This would put the front most suspension pickup points of the car high and out of line. Should be able to bolt on the check sets (four center most fixtures) and find the issue. I would say it would be a matter of vertical cuts through your longs, check the upper body diamensions and adjust the car.

right now were beginning to pull apart portions of the car, to get correct measurements. the front suspension is gonna get pulled off today, and well keep measuring to see where the car is off.

I heard back from the shop. I really couldn't read the guy. I asked him if he was interested in selling the bench. He said he would think about it. I asked him if he was interested in fixing your car. He said he would think about it.
Ok, but he did tell me that the local frame and axle guy has the second design Cellette bench that only requires the top section of the redsigned fixtures, It's the MZ model. Shipping cost for the fixtures are less because the tops come in a suitcase not a friggin shipping crate. The only thing is there may not be fixtures for the older chassis'. I'm still checking.

Think about it ...