OK....I've been tossing around the idea of changing out my engine to a 6. What are your opinions out there. My main reason is not to make my car into a "race car" but just a nice solid performer with power. I also love the sound of the 6 cylinder engine.

How do I know if my car is worthy of such an upgrade? I understand that it's not cheap and that the car will never have the value of a 911, but I just like my car and like the weight balance of it being a mid-engine.

Gimme you thoughts!!!

Thanks!
ED

I think it's a great idea.

See the link in my signature for my build thread. 1.7L /4 to 3.6L /6 ...
Andy

You can really dump a lot of money into the conversion..... a lot.

If your 914 is a nice original 1.7 I'd say leave it alone. Go find a 914-6 someone has already converted. You'll be money ahead.

The conversion process is almost always a loosing money battle. Not to say it isn't worth it. The end product is very rewarding.

I've sort of changed my tune over the last year or so. 914's are just getting too hard to come by in decent somewhat original condition. Converting them to proper air cooled sixes just doesn't seem really worth it unless the 914-4 wasn't all that original to start with.

Just my opinion.

I've recently completed the 6 conversion in my 75. Went with a 3.0 with Weber carbs , headers and a 2 in 2 out muffler. Stock internals so I'm guessing 210-220 horsepower. The car flat out flys I can't imagine what a 3.6 will do. To do the conversion right it is $$$ but worth it in my opinion.

There are probably a few threads in the archives that detail the costs and headaches.

I agree, it is a money pit. Do your homework, check out other conversions to get an idea of what you want in the end. You will never get your money back out of the car. Check out the classifieds, they are full of cars selling in the low 20's but have 40k - 60k into them. Especially when you can buy a Boxster that is already done for $10k. I started with a 2.7 six, but then it needed better brakes and rear flairs due to the throttle induced over steer. A 2.7 six wasn't powerful enough for me, so I upgraded to a 3.2. Now the 901 trans is not geared right for the motor and 1st gear is worthless and 5th revs to high.

I say GO FOR IT!

Those of us with original factory 1.7's just love to see the numbers of original cars going south.

Go ahead, take the car from something of potential worth to a "custom". It will bleed money, but you'll be happy when it's done. Just don't expect to get that money back.

Buy mine

I'm just finishing up a 1.7 to 2.7 swap and it is a huge pain in the a$$. It's been a long, expensive process with a lot of little problems. Oh and did I mention its expensive. I'm at just under $7K right now and I've had a friend build a lot of stuff for almost no money. I think when I finally roll the car out next week it will all be worth it though.

If you were my customer I would say - "Definitely, go for it!"
If you were my friend I would say - "My 1.7 is faster than yours! Lets go for a drive."
BTW, I was doing 90 on the highway in my 1.7L yesterday, and could have gone a lot faster.
A 90mph speeding ticket in a stock -4 is a lot less $$ than a speeding ticket in a big -6. $400 vs. $20,400. (no I didn't get a ticket yesterday)

A six conversion should be done for the joy of the project, because YOU want to build

All the book club ladies want to hang with the CW 1.7 guys. Think of all the fun you can have cleaning up stray wax with Q-Tips and tooth picks. Sounds like a hoot.

Nostalgia, if you've replaced even one rubber seal is your car still original?

I have had a blast building my -6. There have been lots of frustrating times, and many teeth-grinding moments wondering why I am spending so much. Its been a great learning experience, and the most important part is this is what I want.

There are certain 911 motors that will be cheaper in the long run to install than others. Its hard for me to suggest where to start without knowing what your budget is, but no matter what motor you go with, there are going to be the basic parts your going to have to purchase. The motor mount, oil tank, and oil lines. Even a tired 2.7 will give you some fun until it needs to be rebuilt. Personally, I think the 3.0 and up motors are a better starting point because of the alum. case. The later 2.7's run the risk of having the thermal reactors which baked them badly. Even a 2.2 or 2.4 carb'd mag engine will be tons of fun.

cheers, d

So, Ed. Are you totally stoked about the process of wrenching, fabricating, and otherwise grunting and dealing with the challenges (numerous) that come with doing this yourself?

If yes with a capital Y and backed by unstoppable enthusiasm, then go for it.

If any hesitation on that answer, then buy one. Buy one that has been through the headaches, is already done and sorted. Sell your 4. And know this is the CHEAPEST way to get the final results you were looking for.

Do you want the results, or the torturous head-bashing most expensive process? I admit I often lean towards the latter and thrive on it. Lots of us do. Point being, which way do you lean?

Pat even stated that he likes mikey914 parts...your car is junk Pat, it's not original anymore, may as well tow it off to the scrap yard.

I am going through my third year of my project and I can assure you that whatever budget you set, you will be low. It starts with the engine, if you do not know the history, rebuild it before you put it in. Then look at the suspension, transmission and brakes, shift linkage, all need to be upgraded. Then you decide if you are using EFI or carbs, add oil cooling ect. Plus it does not make sense to put a monster engine in a rusty car, it wil tear it apart.

I agree with the other posters, if you really will enjoy the process and have the $$, it can be very rewarding to know you got what you really wanted. If you want it drivable SOON and with the least cost, a 6 is not the option. I am almost at the finish line with mine but I would have NEVER thought it would take as much time and $$$ as it has. It will be wonderful when finished, but the process takes a lot of dedication and a forgiving wife.

Conversion guys get all of the naughty girls. Naughty is nice.

Sell your car. Buy Greg's car. It will be the most economical decision you could make along that path.

Started 15 years ago with a 1.7, then 2.0, then 2.0 Six, now 3.2 and I will NEVER go back.

Just do it.

D

horsepower is addictive.

control your urges!!! or open your wallet!!!

jim

HP is great and all that but if you've ever had a ride in a 914 with a fresh 2056 and a decent cam you might change your mind. The car I'm thinking of could scratch it's sticky tires in 1st gear. The difference between this car and my original 36 year old 2L engine was astonishing. Even a mild aftermarket cam that is still compatible with d-jet will make like 30 foot pounds for torque more than stock. Maybe more.

See the attachment for the 2056 vs stock torque chart.

I've built and I'm building for my bug now, big nickies 2.6 type fours. One I built made 150rwhp on the chassis dyno.
Parts all told will run you about $9k+ on a build like this.
It's great and in a 1700lbs bug it will be smokin', but the engine is pretty well maxed out. I'm sure Jake will say he can get more than this, but at what cost.

The torque on that 2056 chart might be a bit optimistic but do-able. Like all power upgrades it will at first feel incredible, but that feeling will wear of quick as you become accustomed to the power. Then you will get smoked by a more powerful car....

To me, in a heavier 914, once you're at $10k on an engine build, you may as well go balls deep and do a 180hp+ six.

You could buy a nice 911SC for what you'd have in a conversion. And probably enough left over to build a 1911 or 2056. Or just invest in a real /6.

However you get it, if you end up with a /6 you will never look back or question your decision. How you get there is up to your level of know-how and your budget.

I have the ability to see into the future.......I sense an ad in the classifieds that will manifest itself later this year:

916-4 conversion "project":

Just needs someone to finish, started life as a 1.7, everything on the 914 has been torn appart. $15k worth of parts and "Good" used 2.7 with CIS waiting for new loving owner to install and finish up. Should be super easy. Just out of time and money. $5500 OBO will take part trade on good running 914-4.

Of course if you REALLY want to exceed your budget do a turnkey Suby conversion.
Believe it or not it does have its good points, but your car is likely too nice to start with.
Later,

This is funny!!!!!!!.............but you got me thinking

I just bought a 911 with an SC motor, and will be doing a -6 conversion. But before I did, I did look at a 2056 and rode/drove it, and was not overly impressed. It had some good power, but I was dissapointed. Otherwise I would of bought it on the spot!

I would agree with Dan, he has converted several and knows how expensive it can get, even doing most of the work himself.
For me, the 6 is too loud. Nice for a great spirited run, but not my choice for a car to drive regularly.
I base this on owning a 1.7 in the mid 70's and driving my friends 6 a couple of times. Preferred mine. But mine had flares and 215'sfront/ 225's rear. He couldn't keep up in the twisties! Hee, hee,hee!
Tom

If you like wrenching, solving problems, and spending money, then go for it! I have converted a 73 1.7 to a 2.7 six with a 915 gearbox, and absolutely had a blast doing it. The car runs great, and is a lot more fun to play with than my factory -6. Anyone that has a large displacement -6 will tell you the same thing.

I do not want to add up receipts for the money I have spent. I did almost all the mechanical work myself, but if I had paid a shop for the labor hours put into the car, it would probably be over $50,000 spent on the project.

Do it for the enjoyment of the project, but don't think it will be a financial winner.

Thanks George for the advice.

I say do it...if you've driven one you'll see.

A six conversion using carbs is so easy to do. Little wiring and few special parts is all you need, like oil tank and few lines. I am in the process of rebuilding my 2.4S engine for mine. I did the built 4 cylinders and was happy until i added the 2.4 engine. It is really worth the effort an cost if you like the car and want to keep it for a while. Take you time looking for parts and you will be able to find good deals. If you want it right now...check for used cars already converted...

If you race your car, the conversion is really good thing. Street driving is probably just as fun to keep the 1.7L...

My standard reply to this recurring question is:

I don't know anyone who's put a flat 6 Porsche engine in a 914 and said "I wish I'd kept it a four cylinder". No one.

Converting to a six is not cheap but worth every $ when you hit the gas!
Mine is a 3.0ltr with PMO 40mm carbs and recurved dist.
Stock Trans with Kennedy Clutch.

van914

2.8L, 10.5:1, twin plug, MFI. Being that I am a machinist/mechanic and did all the work myself, that motor cost me as much to build as it would have to buy a low mileage 3.2 with all the EFI... say $9K? Now the sounds that come from that 2.8MFI, everyone thats ever fallowed me grins, or has that -oh, so sexy squint face-. But for the record, Dave Shepards/GPR 3.2 conversion 914 started it, and is still in my book the best motor to convert one of these with.

Buy my 240HP engine that's in the classifieds and you'll be Happy.

yes, but lots of people have started down that road and bailed due to the expense and time involved! Its a big step and expensive to do...
Look at your goals for your car:
How fast do you want to go?
Did you like heat?
How is the rest of the car setup, stock or improved with 5 bolts, better brakes, better suspension?

It used to be 10 years ago to get over a 100hp reliably you had to install a six. Now you can build a 120hp four with heat using lots of four parts for $5000..thats the same hp a stock six has plus more lower end torque and its looks stock.

If you have $10k in burning in your pocket thats the starting point of installing a six with big hp....180hp+... and you have to find a good low mile engine first.

You need two cars, one fairly stock and one to play with.

Keep the 1.7 stock if it already is. If you feel the need to fuss with it upgrade the suspension. The the fun per $ ratio is much better than adding horsepower. As for the six, my 3.6L motor has never let me down. Regardless...

Buy someone else's dream project, finished or not. It's always cheaper. Pick one that's not too nice though.

You don't want TWO garage-queens! Not that I have an opinion.