Tires - 245/50R16 BFG G-Force Sports
Rear brakes - 911 vented
Hubs - stock 914/4 drilled and studded for 5-bolt

ok, so the flares are on the car but not painted yet. Time to fit the wheels and tires that I just got mounted and balanced. They clear, but this is way too close for comfort. I've got maybe 2-3 mm.

I could cut the flange down like the narrow body cars (that would get me another 10mm) but though I should ask first. Are the rest of you fat rear tire folks with factory rear flares in the same boat?

As the suspension compresses, the tire moves inward. I'd just like a little more margin for error.

Click to view attachment

Trim or roll the flange. You'll be fine.

This reminds me of something I keep hearing from our flare experienced peeps. You should have your tires and wheels before you mount your flares. You just need to roll your fenders like Rick said. Camber grows more negative as the suspension deflects upward.

Trim & Roll

I personally like 225s on an 8" wheel - that would have given you the room

Also Steel Flares ( Factory or AA) will not allow the same meats as a F/G flare

Thanks all! I will trim the flare and get everything in epoxy this morning.

First ... the 951 wheels (944 offset) fit better.

Second ... The tire size should be 245/45/16 to get them to clear the fender.

I have a couple inches on the rear with the 944 wheels.


The 245/50 BFGs are a little fatter (I had them at first) than the Bridgestones that I have now.

> You should have your tires and wheels before you mount your flares.

Yup!

-Steve

Don't trim. Roll the lip instead. That way, you don't lose the strength that lip is adding to the shape of the flare ...

As for the wheels, make sure your suspension is settled. Did you roll the car around a couple of feet? Do you have all the weight in the car? Engine, gas, full interior? Is the rear already aligned? Camber set?
All these will affect your tire fitting.



And for the love of 914s, get some spacers for those front wheels!!!
Andy

At least you found out before the car was any farther along. I didn't think about it until the body work was complete and ready for paint. When I rolled the edges it changed the panels ever so slightly and I needed to rework them so they would be perfectly flat again.

Keep in mind I go overboard on everything. I have some photos of the process, but they're at home. I'll try to find them tonight and add them to the thread

Actually, you lose the strength when the lip is rolled too and a pocket is made to retain water. The depth of the lip defines the strength. I trimmed it this morning. It'll be just fine.



Yes to all of the above and put additional weight in the trunk and pushed down more and...



LOL, yes.

I did have my tires and wheels beforehand and knew full well that it was going to be close. I figured it was better to ask first and make sure there wasn't something obvious that I missed!

Tom,
If those were fiberglass flairs I would just grind off a 1/4 " of the lip for just a little extra room...They look like they need to be smoothed up anyway. If they are medal I would still consider grinding off 1/4". You still have a lot of fender lip left. That should'nt weaken the flair. Get the car off the jack stands and make sure you roll it back and forth at least 15 feet in both directions to make sure the car is a normal sitting height. I have GT flairs also and actually have got 16x9s fuchs on back with 1/4" spacers to move mine out a little more and clearence is fine.....understand (every) application is different! Good luck.
Mike

I disagree that trimming is as strong as rolling. If that were true why are there c perlins used in structural metal buildings and not just a c channel? The reason the flare is not rolled is the added cost of the production. But there is the chance that the curl might hold water for a few minutes but not much longer. I guess if you drive in mud it could be a problem but I do wash the mud out from under my 4x4 after each muddy excursion.

Roll it.

I keep telling people how close 8's are in the 911 offset...

Purlins are 'C' or 'Z' shaped so that they have a bearing surface against the rafter. It also allows the purlin to be bolted, screwed, welded to the rafter.

The strength of the flange is influenced primarily by the depth of the web. This is also referred to as its moment of inertia. The higher the moment of inertia, the more the shape will resist bending.

The 914 front fenders are rolled from the factory, the rears are trimmed. Rolling would have lead to other deformation problems with the flare. Trimming avoided those problems.

Hey Eric, you didn't tell me!

My understanding was that the 911 offset rim was the one to use with flares. I agree that the 944 offset would have solved the problem on the flare side, but it also would have pushed the rim closer by 8mm to the inner fender which could be a problem under full compression. As the suspension compresses, the wheel and tire move further inward.

Wheel widths, offsets and backspacing can be found here http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html

Click to view attachment
Here the inside view of the lip rolled over.

Yup, real close with 225 x fatty 60 series.

On my GT clone with AA metal flares I have 911 offset 8 inch Fuchs with 245/45x16 Yoko's. I have aprox. 1/8th inch clearance to the non rolled lip. I see no issue on mine. The fronts on the other hand can probably be spaced out at least 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch with 205/55 x 16 on 7's.

If you have 1/8th inch of clearance you will! Also, 45's vs. 50's and different mfgs are all different.



8mm you've got... compression or no compression.



I would definately NOT like 1/8th of an inch though... rolled or not. (I prefer rolled vs, tire cutters though)

Well I've been driving the car since February on the street with zero issues. I've done one AX and pushed her pretty hard and no issues. What problem is going to show up ? I do agree with TC that 225/50 is probably a better fit for a 8 inch rim and will give better " lip " clearance.

I am gonna use the same (944 offset) 8" wheels/flares but with 225/45-16 tires on the rears !!!

What are the part numbers for the 911 vs the 944 8x16" Fuchs? What is the offset?

Curious minds want to know!!

If someone doesnt post with it soon, I will post the part number when I get home and can see them .

The coolest thing about the 944 turbo offset 8x16s is they 'look' like standard 7x16 on the outside but have the lugs recessed further in

I guess I'm just floored that with 1/8th" of clearance you haven't experienced and sidewall deflection into the flare. Shocked frankly.

The 951 number toward the bottom is the 944 wheel.

Click to view attachment

This is probably the same offset chart posted in the link.

Have I missed something? In the pic from Tom's initial post the clearance looks around an 1/8" . . .

Assuming that photo was taken with the suspension under proper load, with the lip trimmed or rolled he's going to have about 3/8" of a gap, no?

And that's with 245/50 tires - not 45s

I ask because I am in the same boat and about to order tires; 911 offsets with 16x7 and 16x8 - flare lips rolled. The 245/45 tires are becoming a thing of the past so I see why Tom went with the 50s

Mike,

Initially I was going to roll the flares by clamping a piece of 1/4" steel to the backside and carefully hammer the lip, but no matter how careful I was, the outer surface of the fender began to deform.

The alternate plan was to trim the flare like the factory did on the standard rear wheel opening. This has given me about a finger's width of clearance (1/2") as it sits. As the suspension compresses, the wheel will move inwards slightly and give me slightly more clearance.

Your exactly right on why I picked the 245/50. There is only one street tire that I know of in a 245/45R16. The 245/50R16 ends up being the same diameter as the stock 165/80R15 that the car came with.


Et al,

For those who think that a 225 is a better fit, go ahead and waste your money on a pair of 16x8's. Looking at multiple tire manufacturer's websites, the 245 is shown on an 8" rim and the 225 on a 7" rim. Why folks put a narrower tire on a wider rim is probably a matter of personal preference. The result, however, is that the center of the tread will be forced down. Sure you can put more pressure in the tire to compensate, but there goes your contact patch.

Quote from another site, "The best explanation that I have heard is that German regulations stipulate that the tread be within the fender, and that German tuners like the deep dish look. Therefore, they put small tread width tires on super wide wheels. "

Thanks for the reply, Tom.

The rear suspension on mine is straight out of a factory six. Before it was flared I don't think I had a finger space between the narrow stock quarters and my 15x6 Fuchs!

I too was surprised at how the 245/45 tires have vanished. You can still find them in full blown race tires but the street versions seem to have evaporated.

Side effect of new cars being 17" and up I guess; lots of choices in those sizes.

Gang... let's not forget there are huge variences in the way flares are welded on etc. When we installed a new (stock) quarter on my -6 back in the day, I remember pulling 1/2 to 3/4" out "by hand" (before we painted) to make sure both sides were even.

All sorts of MoJo at work here but, suffice to say, you'll be close with the tire sizes listed. This is why the advice given herein to trial fit befor final install and paint is some of the best you find in the never-ending "What tire will fit my flares" threads.

of course, it would make the most sense to have wheels before mounting your flairs, however i think its important to get a baseline before purchasing wheels.

that being said, i've got steel flares from pelican parts sitting in the garage waiting to go on. i wanted to run 16x8 and 9, so it looks like theres only one "go-to" offset for the rear. What about the fronts? The main thing is that i'm planning on getting wheels from ccw or some other custom wheel manufacturer. Since they build them to spec, i need to know what specs to tell them.

any input on this topic?

Joedubs

The fronts have plenty of clearance, in fact a lot of people will put spacers on to set the wheels out and not rub the inner fender wells.

As far as actual specs, Mr Weidman will know.

Slightly off topic... but if my 914 isn't quite as well endowed with its Fuch-ness and I'm running 16x6 & 16x7"s, how feasible would it be to go from a 215/225 combo to 225/235??? 215s are becoming harder and harder to find in a matching set with 225s so bumping up one would really help there...

Of course I also don't want an uber wide side wall that's going to collapse under high lateral G's! Thoughts, suggestions, ideas? Anyone running such a combo?

Ohh, I didn't even realize this was my first post on world. Ha. I've sold some parts and I have a build thread over on club. None-the-less thanks for the welcome!
Considering most people run a spacer on the front (usually an inch/25mm?) what are the beginning and ending offsets on those wheels? Also, it's hard to find info on whether using 911hubs will affect the position of the hub in relation to the wheel well. For example: In the rear if you drill your hubs to 5lug, a comfortable wheel size would be 16x9 et23. Is that the same for using 911 hubs as I plan on doing? And FWIW I have 911 struts and hubs up front.

911 hubs are the same in the rear. Look at the offset chart and some of the pictures herein. This will give you a good baseline. If they're custom 9's the extra inch needs to go on the inside (see measuring tape).

I think a person can come to his own conclusions on fender lips and that it ok by me but it is a disservice to uneducated readers to state something that is not accurate. If a c channel perlin without the added lips was just as strong as a c perlin with the added lips on the inside it would be way cheaper to make and therefore the one with lips is stronger and cost more to make and is the only one used in structural metal buildings if a c perlin is used. Rolled fender lips have been known to be stronger since metal car fenders have been made from the beginning.