I am interested in teaching myself how to weld with gas. O2 Accetiline, not MIG gas.
I have a mig welder that I am sort of competent with.
Is there benefit to welding with gas over MIG, or am I going to find that if I buy the tank set up, I'll never use it over MIG.

Zach

Gas is really hot.

My Dad taught me on tank welding decades back. I inherited his setup about 6 years ago. Never used it, not once. I just don't do anything that can't be completed without a mig.

That said, if you can weld a good bead with tanks, you can weld almost anything. It's an art controlling the flame, heat, wire etc.

I welded sections of old Bugs together with tanks when I was like 14-15 years old. It was all my Dad had other than an ARC welder (Just punch holes in body sheet metal). So I had to learn.

Got so good with it, I graffted in an oval window section on my 66'.

Get a used setup if you can, learn it, master it and you'll be one of the few that can do it.

I've done it once. Never used it again.

A good Mig will do everything I ever see with less heat distortion..

If I saw myself welding 1/4" steel more often then maybe I would take it up again..

But then again I'd probably just use my Arc welder...


As far as my skills go. Oxy accetiline is for cutting. I own the kit, but I havent needed to use it JUST yet. Maybe when I start fabbing some more stuff for my shop, but as of now, my MAP torch gets used quite often for metal bending.


Honestly, if your really curious and have the $$$, buy the stuff and teach yourself to join two pieces together just for the shear ability to say you have.. Then practice using it as a cutting torch (Really cool to hear the loud PSSHHHHHHHHH), as you will only really use it for bending metal and cuting.

I have a oxy/acet setup along with arc and mig. To be honest for welding around the DIY garage mig is all I use. However I learned on oxy and once you master the touch I really think it makes you a better overall welder. I still use it for cutting. I haven't cranked up the 300 amp buzz box in years. Keep an eye on local Craigslist as these come up quite often around here. One thing it really is good for is heating up frozen/rusted nuts,bolts,other. You can't beat the " blue wrench " for that .

There are many good uses for a gas setup. It was the second thing I got after a wards stick welder a long time ago 1968. Get the double diaphragm regulators if you can they last longer. The trick it to turn the regulators on REAL slow to avoid blowing the diaphragm out. I use it a lot for heating thick metal to bend easier. I cut thick steel with it. I don't have a plasma cutter yet as i'm pretty sure I don't need one for the type of fabbing I do. My friend that fabs has one and he doesn't think I can justify the cost for the stuff I do. I welded a rusted out 42 jeep tub up with a torch even though I had a mig just to see if it was better. There is way less bulge in the weld bead but there was more heat put in the original metal which I think made the metal lose some of it's strength and it made it start rusting almost the next day after it was welded. You can weld aluminum with a torch. Check out John Kelly's site ghiafab I think, he's on here I think as a vender, I just ordered a new dvd from him thats his latest. He does all his auto sheetmetal with a torch I think.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=67022

When I started out doing body work tig welders were huge money! We used to arc weld uni-body cars and gas weld unibody rails....Eeeek!

I gas weld 4130 tube. It's what the aircraft air frame guys building light aircraft recommend over tig as the rate of cooling is longer making the welds stronger. I gas weld to replicate a factory weld where it's called for. I gas weld Aluminum. Otherwise, It's nice to have a set for cutting. I never owned a plasma cutter.

I am working on saving for a tig so the aluminum thing may change.

I think gas welding is a lost art form. The home mig welders make it sooo easy now.

If you can TIG weld, Gas is a very easy to pick up. Having a OX/AC unit comes in handy when you need to apply heat. Like everone has suggested, I would look for a used PonyPac on Craigslist, doesn't take up too much room and is portable. Good luck with your welding.

/quick hijack

I'm in sort of the opposite situation: I'm a decent tig and stick welder, and not bad at oxy/acetelyne, but I've never Mig welded. Even though I have a Tig welder, but I've been considering getting a Mig setup since it's much faster than Tig, and I hear it generally will distort less. I'm soon going to be welding in an Engman Long kit, so thinking this might be the time to do it.

Is Mig easy if you can arc and Tig weld? Do the cheap Home-Depot-type welders do well enough, or do I need separate wire feeders, etc?

/Hijack off

What about for Brazing?

If you can gas weld, tig and mig are a cake walk. I say go for it just to become a great welder. I wouldn't weld on a car with it though. It throws around way too much heat for what you need. As the others said it's great for cutting and heating up frozen fasteners.

If I was tripping over money I'd go with a tig. You can create some beautiful welds with it.

Mig will be easy for you. Buy a good machine with shielded gas. Make sure at least one adjustment is infinite.

Bad Idea. The flux is corrosive. Makes future repairs difficult because you must remove all brass first.

MIG = The "glue gun" of welders.

What does the edge of metal cut with a torch look like? Can you make precision cuts, or is it more of a ragged edge type deal?

I am going to have to cut 1/4 inch steel for my truck, and I am thinking about different ways to do it, that do not involve buying a plasma cutter.

Zach

A torch cut on 1/4" can be very clean and straight, on one side (the off side will have crud on it), but you need to be pretty good to do that, and you'll still want to touch it up with a sander. Make sure you have the right size and a very clean tip, plus you'll need the right gas ratio, your torch at the right angle, and need to move at the right speed. Takes alot of practice or you'll end up with a jagged cut.

A torch weld can be hammered so you can flatten it.
The mig seems to crack quickly so it cant be hammered to much.

A torch heats up nuts.
A torch will cut 1/4 steel and its really fun to do...and cool.
You NEED this Zach....it will be the most fun you have had with fire in a long time.

I did this analysis...got a torch and never looked back.
I learned how to weld thick steel in an afternoon.
Still learning to weld sheetmetal, bit that just takes time.

Rich

I learned to gas weld in high school shop class... a long time ago. I bought a used complete gas setup last year, just because it was there and cheap. $100 or so. Haven't used it at all yet. It will probably only ever get used for heating junk for reasons already mentioned here.

But I have one. And it makes really cool fire.

I only use my torch for 2 things: (1) cutting metal and (2) heating up things like rusted bolts and annealing copper exhaust gaskets. Beyond that is sits idle. Though in a small repair, restoration shop like mine where the newest cars are 30+ years old, it gets used a lot!

MIG is the only way to go with sheet metal welding. Gas welding will leave you with a part that looks like a potato chip once it cools. You can cut some pretty thick stuff cleanly especially if you use clamped angle iron as a guide for your tip.

I don't see how folks can successfully work on old cars where rusted bolts are such a fact of life without a torch. As others have suggested, look at Craigslist for deals on small set-ups. No need to spend big money on something that gets used once in a while.

Brazing and silver soldering has it's place in fabbing on some things that require low heat.

A lot of things used to be cut with track cutters, they were torches set up on a track to cut long cuts of almost any shape but mostly straight. The edge can be used as it is, if it is done correctly but by hand it takes a lot of practice to not have slag on the back side. Thicker metal can be cut cleaner than thinner metals. The tip must be clean so cutting rusty or coated metals will not be as clean of a cut as good clean metal.

Before you buy check out a henrob they are really neat.

BTW Charlie, Have you ever used a Henrob. I've seen them demo'd and thought "Holy Crap that was sudden. That stuff flowed like water but then again it was .035 and .042 aluminum skins. And I second all the other 2nds for oxy/acetylene rigs. I've had my Victor for 25 yr's. Charlie, you forgot about using the gas for "hail dent removal". (I used to live in TX). Another thing to remember. Mig is more brittle and harder to grind down. If your in a high vibration environment the gas weld is gonna hold up better (unless you've got some large ovens and a boatload of experience in heat treating.)

I have seen the Henrob demonstrated at many car/hot rod shows and it is a very nice piece. I never pulled the trigger to buy one but if I came across a used one for sale I'd consider it. You can never have too many tools .

my torch accompanies my MIG. the torch is great to cook out contaminants and moisture prior to MIG. this helps reduce blow out , popping and other pain in the ass things that happen while welding dirty rusty 914s.
for cutting PLASMA IS THE KING!
TORCH IS GREAT FOR BENDING FAT METAL.

Did you end up getting the torch?

Brass and silver brazing for handmade bike frames. This guy gets ~5K for just the frame. www.RichardSachs.com

That's a hell of a torch for brazing!

I've welded in a 912 front suspension pan and floors in with a torch. It came out really nice! I recently bought a Mig and it is fantastic in the sense of efficiency. You can do a lot welding quickly with a Mig. Turn it on and pull the trigger.


If I had to have one or the other, I would definitely go with Oxy-Acetylene. It's a lot more versatile of a tool for the reasons stated in the thread. Another nice thing is that you can control the amount of filler material in your weld like Tig welding.

Keep in mind that it's the user that makes the welds good! Remember that they used to build amazing cars with little more than some hammers and a torch.

I love my torch setup. For car work you HAVE to get the little half pint 'aircraft' models Smith makes a very nice one - lifetime warrenty to boot. With a small torch the popping and banging are history and sheetmetal is easy. With very little practice you can make tanks etc. I plan on a combination of torch and tig when I do my flares. Like others have said once you learn puddle control you can weld with anything. Tig will be a snap if you ever go down that road.

Not only are the frames $5K you have get onto a one year plus waiting list!

Steve

List went past 5 years and he closed it down to new orders. I put my order in 4 years ago.

I did not yet get a set up.
I am thinking about it more and more as I start working on this old truck full of grade 8 rusted solid nuts and bolts.

I am thinking a set up may be a present to myself after xmas is over.

Zach

I always use kroil and maybe some pb blaster on old bolts way before I try to get them loose. I missed a henrob a few years ago new never used one that I will always regret. I really want to play with one to see what it can do with little stuff. I probably will never use brass or silver solder on a car body again but thats not written in stone either, every way to put metals together sometimes has a good reason as the best way to do it. Even epoxys are a process I like to study.

My welding friend was telling me that brazing can be made stronger than welding because of the capillary action that draws the filler between the welded pieces. He was saying that all decent bicylcle are put together this way for strength vs weight.

914's are brazed in some spots, like where the rear door well curves down and meets the top of the long, it is a high stress area that spot welds alone might not hold.

Actually the main reason brazing is used is because the parent metal is supposedly heated less and the chance of a fracture developing in the steel is less than the chance of a crack happening at the edge of the weld. There is nothing stronger than steel melted together if it is not over heated in my opinion. Brazing is hot glueing with brass. Google the experimental airplanes and the tech on welding the thin cromemoly tubing techniques used.

I'm pretty sure it's really because a spot welder wasn't needed and most anybody could braze that area together. The old spot welders used to need to be clamped on both sides of the metals to work. Brazing was probably good enough. Have you ever seen the paint not stick to brass on unibody cars?

That it's spot welded AND brazed makes me think it's for strength.
Here's a write up talking about the advantages of each, welding and brazing
http://www.torchbrazing.com/torch-brazing/...h-is-better.htm