Here's some "garbage" fer yah JP! Talking about flat out WWF smack down of FP 914 by the big German sedan. Hey even one of our rookies in the Subie are breathing down Parade winning 914's back! Time for to sell that old underpowered FP jalopy or move to XP and put a subie in it!

Take this and smoke it.

Class standings for FP [21 Cars] (9/9/2010 2:25:39 PM)

---------------------------------------------------------
T 1 193 Toby Larsson 1998 BMW 328is Org Hoosier
57.536 57.484 61.756(2) 57.484

---------------------------------------------------------
T 2 123 John Thomas 1971 Datsun 240Z Blu Hoosier
58.823 57.892 58.269 57.892
(0.408)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 3 9 Jonathan Jackson 1973 Porsche 914-6 Ylw Hoosier
60.960 59.984 58.891 58.891
(0.999)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 4 93 Aaron Goldsmith 1998 BMW 3 Series Org Hoosier
61.900 61.288(1) 59.234 59.234
(0.343)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 5 28 Leeds Gulick 1971 Porsche 914-6 Wht Hoosier
60.797 59.322 69.291(1) 59.322
(0.088)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 6 128 Greg Fordahl 1971 Porsche 914 Wht Hoosier
59.451 67.244(3) 60.479(1) 59.451
(0.129)
---------------------------------------------------------
7 20 Josh Salvage 2005 Subaru STI Blk Hoosier
60.425 60.393 59.455 59.455
(0.004)
---------------------------------------------------------


...Man after seeing how bad Toby beat everyone I'm wondering if I made the right decision not to go. I thought all podium spots behind him would at least be within a second. Ex national champs are 2 seconds off the pace. WOw!

Ya gotta hand it to Toby, he is walking the walk. Beating the Thomas 240Z (thus far) is no small chore, he knows how to win.

That said, you're just talking the talk as usual. For some reason you find it necessary to come & rub salt in the wounds of 914 guys....does that make you feel as if you've accomplished anything on your own?.....your insecurities drip from your words. There is a 914 in 3rd who is ahead of Toby's co-driver at this point. I feel no great urge to disparage him for getting beat in a superior car.....WTF is your problem?...other than living vicariously thru some guys who happen to live in the same state as you.

We here will contine to do what we do despite your extra noise.

LOL!

I race with Toby on a regular basis and he's pretty amazing. Don't get me wrong. His bavarian machine is top notch, but anyone who can run an FP car in XP and keep Fred Zust honest is somewhat exceptional even amongst race car drivers.
And yes, lots of noise on this thread.
Mark D.

I wish we had a like button here. It would be applied to this post, that or karma points.

Well a 914 got 3rd.

Must have rained for second FP session. The $100K 914-6 from rainy NW didnt make it into top 10. Must have had a typical 35 year old car mechanical issue or maybe no rain tires? They were pretty much out of the game yesterday so I wouldnt blame them if they just left slicks on if it was raining today. That other 914-6 made a very good showing by grabbing 3rd. but not close to top national class winning runners in FP. Suspect this will spell end for FP class 914's now time to move on to XP where they can put real motor in the car. Brit seems to be the only AX guy with a clue on how to buld a nationally competive SCCA Solo 914 currently. I wish him luck with the Subi conversion. That should get the job done in XP. And from what we have seen this year XP is actually less competitive than FP!

---------------------------------------------------------
T 1 123 John Thomas 1971 Datsun 240Z Blu Hoosier
58.823 57.892 58.269 115.045
DNF 57.779 57.153
---------------------------------------------------------
T 2 193 Toby Larsson 1998 BMW 328is Org Hoosier
57.536 57.484 61.756(2) 115.629
60.821 58.734 58.145 (0.584)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 3 9 Jonathan Jackson 1973 Porsche 914-6 Ylw Hoosier
60.960 59.984 58.891 118.318
62.118 64.268(2) 59.427 (2.689)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 4 93 Aaron Goldsmith 1998 BMW 3 Series Org Hoosier
61.900 61.288(1) 59.234 118.385
64.771 60.455 59.151 (0.067)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 5 171 Rick McPherson 1987 PORSCHE 944 Blk Hoosier
63.462(1) 60.554 59.867 119.223
60.008 59.873 59.356 (0.838)
---------------------------------------------------------
T 6 20 Josh Salvage 2005 Subaru STI Blk Hoosier
60.425 60.393 59.455 119.443
DNF 63.210(1) 59.988 (0.220)
---------------------------------------------------------
7 23 Lance Coley 1971 Datsun 240Z Blu Hoosier
60.385 60.841(1) 59.925 120.029
62.084 63.095(1) 60.104 (0.586)
---------------------------------------------------------
8 47 Michael Tews 1972 Datsun 240Z Wht Hoosier
62.428 60.329 60.628 121.051
74.765 61.704 60.722 (1.022)
---------------------------------------------------------
9 16 Garrett Molzer 2000 Honda S2000 Franke Hoosier
73.321(1) 64.233(2) 60.836 121.083
67.143 63.795(1) 60.247 (0.032)
---------------------------------------------------------
10 120 Justin Moore 2005 Subaru STI Blk Hoosier
64.033(2) 62.120(1) 61.763(1) 121.290
62.264(1) 60.082 59.527 (0.207)
---------------------------------------------------------

Hey Joe what happened to you? Did you have a mechanical?

I never really said anythng before but...this is a 914 BBS. if you no longer own a 914, you think they are passe...why are you here. there are boxter BBS out there. I beat many boxters but I dont go to their BBS to instigate unless I had something of value to say.

Been and always will be a 914 lifer. Drove them in high school, have over 400,000 miles logged in 3 914's since, many years of racing in them. still have a huge bank of parts including a motor, many 914 body parts. ...And I have many positive things to say in other areas of these forums. You just chose to focus on one area where I challenge conventional wisdom around racing them against new cars and classes in SCCA. And I still think they arre great cars if you have the money to throw at them. You wont find many cars as light and with mid engine configration to huse as base of a race car. But there are some who are misguided and think that a stockish chassis and suspensioned 914 can challenge some of the newer cars in prepared and modified classes. I believe in full discloser before somone invests in biuilding a car they think will be a class winner at a national level. We have purveyors of pure BS here and on club sites that need dose of reality thrown their way occasionally. If my comments get somone to pause a little bit when the spluge of 914 rhetoric pours out in these forums I'll be satisfied.

Because I'm on a 914 ownership hiatus for couple years I dont have right to post here? Suspect you'd need to kick a few more people out if ownership is criteria to post. ....Nope I'd say I'm just as much if not more a 914 fan than you or some others here. I'm not leaving the 914 world any time soon and will likely have another one in the future.

OK. I can understand all that. 40 years of technology have marched past our 914s. Im no purest. miatas and maybe boxters seem to be better bang per buck lately.

Yup worked on the kart Sunday and Monday to no avail. even got busted by the HMFIC out in town testing the kart trying to get it running right. Nearly got disqualified for the whole thing. These guys have no sense of ha ha at all.

Swapped fuel pumps, fuel, ignition, and the complete motor. Didn't have a spare carb (which ended up being the problem).

Got a borrowed ride in a different kart. totally effed up my chances, and just concentrated on not being DFL.

Yea trying to talk the guy that bought both my 914's to put a Madza rear suspension in the race car. and an EVO IX motor. hey it's not my car or money anymore so I am much better at spending his.

It remains to be proven that time has passed the 914 by. Time has passed by the aircooled 911 engine to my satisfaction (as the rules now stand for SCCA AX) however......that is an opinion, not a fact.

Since SCCA started doing the Nationals at Lincoln, the trickle down effect of power courses means you can no longer afford to leave 100+ hp on the table and expect to be competitive with the big dogs at pointy end of the Mod/Prep/SSM classes. Generally, the 1.4 multiplier (in classes where forced induction is allowed) leaves the NA guys in the field filler crowd. A light weight car, properly set up will always be competitive if it can also shit & git.

and in order to shit and git the car needs to be in the 4 pounds per Horse power range.

You're right Joe, about 4 pounds per HP works.

Full Disclosure - it'll always be expensive to get to that level regardless of which car one chooses as there sure aren't many stock cars that can hit that level.

It'd be fun to know how much money is actually put into cars, including the suspension and or whatever to handle that power.

Wonder what a Kart that competes at national levels costs?

The National champ was selling his rolling chassis for 2500.
and the Mod Moto Honda is around 6500.00

Then of course maintenance.

4 per pony is snappy. my v8914 is about 5.+ and it really jumps...oops. that green bug eye is better than 3 1/2 per pony, right?
oooh my! now that is super snappy. golly gee I sure wish...

I know what maintenance costs on a car, but what about a kart?

How long do the tires last / motors / brakes and or whatever? Tks.

Motors are rebuilt on a schedule of Gallons of gas run through.

If you want top level performance a shifter motor should get a new ring every 5 gallons, new top end every 10-15 gallons. Bottom end 30 gallons.

Pistons are 70 bucks. Cylinders are 800 for my ICC. and about 500 for a Honda.
Tires are 30 runs like a Hoosier A6. but only cost 210.00 for a set

The E Mod minimum weight is 1800 lbs with driver.....maybe 1600 without.
I think 4:1 is a good guess ....WOD.

800 for a cylinder?.....Keerist, Porsche parts are cheep.
I'd do a replate.

Ya gots to 'member that a kart cylinder includes the intake and exhaust ports, is ported properly, and has higher thermal stresses. It's only one as well! ... And has far more strokes per minute than a Porsche cylinder!

The Honda cylinders tend to last longer than the ICC's, but the ICCs have a wee bit more HP.

Good kart stuff is cheap in a bad economy!

Yea the Cylinder is pretty spiffy piece of art.
Nicasil coating, multiple intake ports, and multiple exhaust ports. water cooled,

13:1 compression is stock 14,500 RPM. and about 45 HP.

Yep you can replate if you fuk one up.

Most of the time cylinders don't need replacing unless you scatter a motor all over hell.

It's not hand filed out by gnomes dudes.......maybe 30 minutes in a 5 axis NC mill.
The mill costs a pretty penny, tho.

A 45 hp shifter kart has to be close to that..

Nope, with driver the carts are between 385 and 420 depending upon engine which means the best they can be is ~8.5lb/hp.

Karts defy physics.
They should not be that fast according tothe numbers.
I guess with 6 speeds and theability to use them all in an autocross run gearing is king. LOW, WIDE, Short and tons of grip.

nothing like accelerating through a slalom driving with one hand and shifting with the other.

Size matters.
Having only to move ......what? 24 inches off a straight line for a slalom.
Short way around corners....the shortest. They have good grip and maintain speed.
It's more geometry than physics, me thinks.

No, they don't defy physics. They work to the numbers when you use all the numbers. JP has a good point about the size, but you're also comparing something that'll pull 3+ Gs in the corners to full bodied cars that'll push 2/2.5 on a good day. Also, the polar moment of inertia is far lower than anything else out there which makes them kill in the trasitional stuff. With all this talk about horsepower on this thread, I think people have forgotten we're also talking about autocross. Handling is king.
Mark D.

So enough with kart and boxster talk. Any fast 914s going to 2011 solo Nats? Now is the time to get car ready.

I think Brit is only guy I have seen who is getting serious about building a real contender if he follows through with the subie build.

Leeds 914 may be back. The car broke on day one with bad brakes. They had not been touched in ten years and the seals blew. This whole year it looked like the car was getting slower and slower and now I know why. Next year it may be back and ready.

On the same note, Leeds boxster may finally be finished and he said once it is the 914 is going on the shelf

Yikes a car with that level of prep hauled at great expense all the way back to nats with 10 year old brake seals? ....Really? Nice to hear even the best dont take preventitive maitenance too seriously in AX. I thought I was only guy that let stuff like that slide.

You would think he would have been on top of that but Leeds has had his mind in that Boxster for some time. He just drives the 914 until the Boxster is ready. I would be embarassed to have my trip to nationals be ruined by old parts but I guess if you have been as many times as they have they don't take it the same way

When we spoke last night, Brit said he was buying a new motor today.

Britt PICS or BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoping to have the DSP 914 at the 2011 Nats. The rust repair is done and the flares are on. I start reassembly of the engine this week. Should be ready by Feb.

So you gonna make Dixie Nationals?

I think 2011 is a bit optimistic for me, but I'll hopefully have a pretty solid DP car for 2012. Most of the planning is done, so it probably could be done for 2011, but the money isn't there... I'm sure you've never heard that before. I need to talk to Jon and see how he went about getting someone to pay for his habit.
Mark D.
P.S. I'm PLENTY serious.

We do plan on making it to that event.

DP car? Whats your plan? Given restrictions in that class are you sure you could be competitive at national level? I havent looked at DP for a while. Would that be a 2.0 4 cylinder?

You can use a 2.0 or 1.8 at different minimum weights. I've got a 2.0 motor designed for the class because I don't think you could reap the rewards of a 1.8 with 901 gears. Plus I want the extra bottom end grunt. Other than that, just GT flares, some good DOT-Rs, and a well setup suspension for the time being.
Am I sure I can be competitive nationally? Of course not. But I wouldn't be building the car if I didn't think it were possible. I actually think it'd be harder to make a go in DSP due to the engine mod restrictions. My $.02. But it's gonna be tough to catch the Miatas. They've got those things well sorted. Of course, it'll be fun to try!
Mark D.

A couple friends have DP Miatas......both prety quick. One was 2nd at the Nats this year. The other guy (in 3rd) usually beats him. The main difference between the 2 is one has a 1.8 and the quicker one has a 1.6 (lighter). That is also a tough road to hoe.
Both of these guys do 30+ AXs per season.

And not just seat time. QUALITY seat time.

You got to run big courses with concrete.

None of those concrete jobbies around here. The closest is in Wendover, UT......bout 750 miles one way over yonder. They were both there....one broke. They both did OK at the Nats tho.

Grant ,
I have a complete roller I will give to you and that will rectifie your problem.
As a matter of fact you don't even have to move it I will store it at no charge until you can p/u.
That should take care of your 'Not having a Teener problem.'

JT

fp #9 will be back.It will be faster!

Thats the right attitude!

It seems to be pretty damn quick already.
Whatcha gonna do to make it faster?

We need seat time with current setup and some tweeking.Right now the car is still better than the driver.We chased the set up,after building a new chasis, most of last season.We are going to turn 800 more rpm next year .Also I think the rear springs are a little too stiff (based on shock adjustments).Playing with weight distribution.