I would like to remove the head on my 1.7 I need some advice..


here is the issue

car starts fine, after swapping plug wire 2 and 4. good power at first take off, after driven for a 5 minutes it starts loosing power , smoking bad and rattling. it feels as if its overheating. I also have oil dripping on both sides... oil trail....

when I open the oil cap there is a lot of smoke I also see sign of oil on the heat-sink like block on top.

I am thinking the head gasket could do that... was thinking of removing the heads tomorrow.... any suggestion will be appreciated....

also would it be easier if I take the engine down to work on the heads..?? of should I attemp to remove them and see whats going on?//

Compression test shows
1-3 100
2-4 150


anything else I can try, I want the head removal and or engine removal to be my last option.

Try doing a valve adjustment first. Your two low cylinders MAY just be adjusted without the proper clearance.

Your oil leak might just be leaking rocker covers. Replace the gaskets after the valve adjustment.

Yes, you need to drop the engine & transaxle assembly to remove the heads. Best to remove the exhaust system first.

I agree you need to check the basics (valves) beofe jumping to a tear down. You also need to check ignition timing at ~3500 RPM and let us know what it is.

Zach

How many threads are you going to open for the same thing?

Do what Zach suggested in your other thread and this one. Stop worrying about pulling heads or dropping the motor. Adjust the valves and check timing. Right now. First thing. Then report back with the results.

Question for the collective: Do type IV heads need to be re-torqued after some period of time following a rebuild?

Is there a valve adjustment instruction for the 1.7, I have never done this before..

what do I need to perfor the valve adjustment?

PelicanParts.com in the 914 tech article section has a good article on Howtodoit.

There are 2 schools of thought on valve adjusting.
Pelican Parts how to: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...alve_adjust.htm

But these days I greatly prefer this method put forward by our own Cpt. Crusty:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=28758

Oh, and before you ask, no you do not need to remove all the exhaust stuff first. Yes, it sucks the first time but it gets easier. You hands learn where they need to go.

Valve adjust, usually if it's a head problem you can hear it.

thanks all, I am about to do the valve adjustment and the timing check...will post afer.

There is absolutely NOTHING in your described symptoms to indicate a head gasket problem.

The Cap'n

Except the fact that they are still there :-)

The fact that your 2 low cylinders are opposite each other (1-3) may indicate a cam wear problem. A simple leakdown test will tell you if all cylinders are holding the same.

I agree with the idea of a valve adjustment. I did not see if you have carbs or FI so that can affect the way the engine runs. Anyways, the smoke and noise after getting hot could easily be the valves loosening so after letting the engine sit over night I would say do a valve adjustment. I would also suggest replacing the push rod tube seals (o-rings) since they may have dried out and could also be leaking. I would also check to see how the crankcase is vented, does it have a stock PCV valve or something else and if you have carbs there should be some sort of vent box or puke tank to catch oil vapors. If there is no venting of the case the engine will want to let pressure out where possible, including valve cover gaskets. Make sure the covers are very clean and the gasket seating surface is flat with no dings or warping anywhere.

Hopefully you won't need to drop the drive train (this time) ??? ... that might depend on the outcome of your valve adjustment.

However, if you DO, I've always found it beneficial to remove exhaust systems prior to dropping the drive train. It's easy to get to all the exhaust's components while it's in up there the car (and on jack stands). You just don't have that ground clearance after you drop the drive train on to a dolly.

Once it's on a dolly, you just need to remove the peripheral components, induction system, cooling tins and then start the head removal process.


Ideally, once it's out, separate the transaxle from the engine to inspect the clutch components, flywheel, seals, etc. ... and replace as needed.

Different folks do things differently

Update :


when i toolk off the valve cover, i tested the gap and found that they were off according to the instructions from pelican forrum they were all tight (no space ) at the tdc. that was the case for all 8 of them.

I did the adjustment as instructed.


after the adjustment, the pressure test stays the same as before, except that 3 went up to 135

new test result:

1: 90
2: 135
3: 150
4: 150

I put everything back togetter and attempted to perform a timing test. Unfortunately the timing light did not come on at 3200 rpm or above.. its a brand new light, not sure if its deffective. I replaced the fuel with 93 premium.

1- The car did perform better. didnt loose power as much, or maybe not at all. but after 10 minutes of driving, i started hearing the ratling again and the smoke comes back.
2-I noticed this time that the smoke was coming out of the mufflers and the where the pcv valve should be. but there was no pcv valve. it is empty.

3-I have an other problem with the number one spark plug. it look likes it was stipped by the previous owner, the plug refuses to go in straight and you can see that it does not go all the way in.

4-one of the passenget side push rod is leaking

5-the engine is a noisy and sound like an exaust problem.

I think I corver it all..

I am not sure that i was using the right timing light.. I picked up one at autozone.

#1 is still low, but I am greatly encouraged by the gains you got with #3.

If the engine really is new, you may not have rings set yet.

Don't do this drill until you figure out the rattle and set your proper timing.
Warm it up to operating temps. Put the pedal to the floor in second gear and hold it until you get to redline. Take your foot off the gas and cost back down to ~2000 rpm. Do this routine twice more. This should set your rings. Try the compression test again.

Before you do that, though, you need to get your timing right and figure out what is causing the rattle. If you are too advanced and pinging you really want to fix that as you could hurt your engine. Literally melt it.

What kind of timing light did you get?

It's an Actron inductive timing light. Do you think that the spark plug problem with number one that I described may be the reason why the light don't work. The plug is not screwed all the way in as the others but is I tight. What about the smoke from the Pcv port, what can be done?

Let me parody that the rattling sounds like a loose sheet metal

errr... is the spark plug that does not fit in the #1 hole per chance?

Zach

Yep it is

Well... I think that you found your issue.

You probably have the plug cross threaded and it is leaking like mad when it heats up. Keep running it and you might actually shoot it out of the head.

You are going to want to have the spark plug hole checked out. You can have the plug hole fixed with an insert w/o pulling the head.

Zach

where can i find such plug, and what am I looking for?

also if you can, advise me on what to use on that pcv hole to stop the smoke

here is the updates from Sunday.

I got a spark plug repair kit for $45.00, it comes with the tap tool, 4 fittings and perma bond. I was successfull at reparing the home. I will let it sir for a few, later in the day i will run compression test again.

for those of you who may experience this issue (stripped spark plug thread) the tool is very good, with a litle patience its easy. 30 minutes tops. Be sure to aplply some engine oil onm the tap and you are good to go. i ftrst did it with grease, and I was having a hard time. the idea of me using the grease was to catch the particles so they dont go in the engine. the oil did the same all particles were trapped..

I also learned that the compression test should be performed with the car hot. My previous results were with a cold engine. I will be updating later...

Thanks all for your support, Especialy Vacca Rabite (Zach).

Ok guys whatever i am doing wrong is with the valve adjustment. I fixed the plug, then the compression test was wrong. I attempted ato adjust the valves again, it seems like the problem flipped to the other side. now, its reading as follow:

#1 135
#2 165
#3 85
#4 65

I tried to follow the instructions from pelican. here is a simplified version of what i did to adjust the valves.

1st I set the TDC for 1 and three by moving the tdc mark on the transmission to the top. while the mark is there i almarked the flyweel at the bottom hole.

while the TDC mark is matching the top hole, I gauged the valves for cylender 1 and 3 and adjust them at 0.006 for intake and exhaust according to the pelican article.

then, I moved the area of the flyweel that i marked to the top of the tranny hole. with that on top, the original mark is showing at the bottom hole. (In other words the switched position)

I then set the cylenders for 2 and 4 while at that position with the same specs (0.006) I put back the valve cover, atert the car waiting for it to warm up and do the compression test.



WHAT AM i DOING WRONG?????/

You must rotate the engine four times.

The most simple method is the easiest for beginners to understand. There are more 'advanced' methods, but they can be confusing until you've gone through the basic adjustment a couple times.

1. Rotate the engine to TDC for #1, set valves for #1.
2. Rotate the engine to TDC for #2, set valves for #2.
3. Rotate the engine to TDC for #3, set valves for #3.
4. Rotate the engine to TDC for #4, set valves for #4.

It sounds like you're trying to set #1 & #3 at the same time. Can't do that. TDC, in this case, refers to TDC at the end of the compression stroke. When #1 is at TDC-Compression, #3 is at TDC-Exhaust.

I went back and did #1 at tdc with the mark on the flyweel on top and the distributor cap pointing at the mark,
then I move it the back wheel clock wise 180 degrees wich moves the cap counter clock wise 90 degrees and set# 2
I continue moving the tire same direction to the mark an other 180 degrees that puts the moves the cap another 90 degrees that makes it 180 fom tdc 1 and set # 3

I again moved the the tire an other 180 degrees wich moves the rotor to another 90 degres to a total of 270 degrees and set #4.

I did the compression test

now I have
135 on 1
135 on 2
85 on 3
70 on4

I dont know what else to do. what else could be wrong?

The engine has to be dead cold when you adjust valves. Was it?

Use the Krusty method. My mind is simple, and I always had issues with knowing for sure if I was at TDC compression for the different pistons. With the Krusty method you never leave the bottom of the car and you never worry about finding TDC. The only think you need to know is you NEED TO KNOW what cylinder each is from under the car. I'd mark them. You also need to know which valves are intake and which are exhaust. From under the car this is easy. The exhaust valves are directly above the exhaust ports.

Here is the trick. Put the car in the air, one rear wheel on a ramp, and the other hanging (supported with a jack stand). Put the car in 5th gear, and remove the spark plugs. You can now move the engine by simply turning the rear wheel while you are laying under the car. Easy!

Here is the chart:
Rock (#2 Ex & #3 In) to Adjust (#4 Ex & #1 In)
Rock (#1 Ex & #2 In) to Adjust (#3 Ex & #4 In)
Rock (#4 Ex & #1 In) to Adjust (#2 Ex & #3 In)
Rock (#3 Ex & #4 In) to Adjust (#1 Ex & #2 In)

ROCK means that the valve is IN. So for line 1 when you see the #2 exhaust valve and the #3 Intake valve pushed open, you can adjust the #4ex, and #1 in. EASY!

You do not have to start at the first line. Get under the car and look until you see a pair that matches the chart. Move from there.

Zach

Zach, you and I have a completely different idea of simple.

I don't know why, but every time I have done a valve adjustment on an engine using the TDC method, I have had to do it three times before I was sure that it was right. End up spending too much time obsessing over finding TDC for each cylinder.

Zach

I am about to get under the car and do it again
let me mention that, I did the compression test after adjusting the valves with cover open and the engine cold the last time. would that make a difference. should I put the cover back and warm up the car to run the test again before Using your method? (Zach's method)

disregard the lasr post. didnt work.

i have oild drping 1 drip per second from the push rhod on the side in question when the enfine is running. can that be the cause of the low compression?

That would be a separate issue.

No, not really.

Want the valves right? Use Cap'n Krustys opposite valve method. Since each lobe of the cam operates two valves on opposite sides of the engine, it's butt simple. The exhaust valves are at the ends and the intake valves are in the center of the head. When a valve is fully open on one side of the engine, it's partner is ready for adjustment on the other side of the engine. No guess work.