Anyone here done a later CIS conversion with the O2 control box. I'm working with BJ on his 3.0 conversion and would like to hear from someone that's gone this route. THANKS!!

if you get a harness it should be easy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-911...sQ5fAccessories

Well, that's like free ................................

BJ had best be all over THAT puppy!

The Cap'n

I will do it someday, but I am going to eliminate the Frequency Valve and not hook up the brain or O2 sensor.

Alternate method is to change the CIS to an earlier model, like a late 2.7L Big Port.

Frequency valve is just another control pressure regulator like the WUR.

Sorry Jeff, what can you expect from a backyard, shadetree non-mechanic.

Hmmmmm, wonder who has a '77 CIS setup they'd be willing to sell, haha.

I wouldnt never run that stuff , Im with you Ron, carbs rule.


78-79 3.0 didnt have lamb control.

Yea but they did have EGR and Air Injection which the Lambda control allowed Porsche to eliminate.

An install with the Lambda control should not be much extra work and it will give you better fuel control and cost you no performance.

Jim

This is my goal!

That's my old 2.7, I took that picture on the right when I pulled it for 3.2 upgrade, and the pic in the orange car is the guy in TX who installed it in his conversion.

agreed just effin with slits, 3.2 motronic, now yer talkin.

What was that airbox from, and what parts did you use for the intake tube??

I have found a VW Golf box that may work but I am having trouble mounting it securely!

I have everything ready except the mounted airbox on my 3.0!

Got it! I'll send it to Perry when I get it.
Bee Jay

I don't think he needs it to build you a main harness. It's a stand alone component, AFAIK.

The Cap'n

I wish I knew particulars, I was told it was an airbox from a rabbit GTI, no idea on the tube ect. I think I have a few more pics on a flash drive at my house, I will see what I can find and send them to you.

Well that explains something. I sent two harnesses that I got with the 3.0 to Perry and I (we) didn't know what the second one was for.
Bee Jay

The Cap'n is right the harness is a stand alone if you are keeping the injection.

Could you use a Aluminum Air box? I think I have an extra one.

Click to view attachment

But my 914-4 relay panel only has one place to plug a harness in. Do I need a 911 relay panel?
Sheesh. Will this route be cheaper than PMO's and a cam change? I am very partial to fuel injection. Tossed the carb on my Vette for aftermarked fuel injection. I love, love, love, fuel injection. But I have no experience with CIS. I'm gonna need a lot of help.
Bee Jay

I used the 914/4 engine harness and relay board on my first conversion.

You can't use the 911 engine harness plug as it is 14 pin and the /4 relay board is 12 pin.

I took wiring diagrams for the 914 and 911 and matched function of the wires, tied them together and wella ... it worked. Had a couple of extra wires left over in the 911 part of the loom, so I wire nutted them off.

Yep, I am barbarian. No ass-dragger, pinky lifting crap for me ... jes getter done and make it run.

Yes there is a fuse panel that the harness plugs into and the engine plugs into included in the harness if you have the whole thing! Then you just have to hook up the + & - and run the O2 sensor to the exhaust.

The issue with the air box is only if you don't want to cut your trunk wall and move your lid latch! If you don't mind the cutting then it is a much easier install.

Here is a photo of the injection harness without the engine half of the harness.



Was that on a 3.0L? You still need the Ignition module and the relay from the 3.0L that the engine harness and the FI harness plug into.

What is that little silver box with the green wires coming off it?

Looks like the power relay to me.

The Cap'n

I'll take it!! How much??

I left my camera at my girlfriends house in SF so I can take a photo of the rest of the harness.

Perry, mount the Bosch control box in the rear trunk. That's where I put the the motronic control box for the 3.2/ 3.6 conversions. The extra heat in the engine bay is not your friend. The box usually goes under the seat on the 911, but kind of tight under the seat of the 914.
Marty

I pulled my CIS stuff out last night to start cleaning and reassembling. What a mess, old mess at that. Then I went to bed thinking about it. I'm going to need a CIS brain, ($300 no core), a CDI ($300 no core), A CIS fuel pump ($200), a $200-$300 wire harness rework, and whatever else is missing or not working. I'm thinking to heck with it. Just get some carbs, and they look way cooler. I already have a good carb fuel pump (Carter), a good MSD box for ignition, and no Brain or CDI needed. I really wanted fi, but really want to be driving my 914 by next summer, and still have a little gas money. I'm going to have a long conversation with Perry and the Captain, John Larson to see what they think.
Bee Jay

I'll call you tonight or tomorrow BeeJay.

or....you could just lower the engine mounts by an inch
lower center of gravity

but I have not heard you talk about the clutch or flywheel yet so......yes it can get pricy! Have you done the oil cooler mod yet?

I won't cut mine because it is an original 6 but if I had a 4, and I was planning an engine upgrade, then I would just cut it!

Thats my $.02!

PS: If you plan on carbs you will loose some HP and some other details if you don't change the cams from FI to Carb config.!

The oil cooler has been mofified. I either need a whole new flywheel or just the ring gear to mount this 3.0 to my 901, depending on who I've talked to last. All I got with the engine is the 3.0 flywheel, no ring gear.
What is it I should cut?
Please keep chiping in your $.02, I really appreciate any advice.
Nice web page, you party animal, you. Where is Discovery Bay?
Thanks
Bee Jay

Here is something else to sleep on.
http://www.bitzracing.com/products/index.html
[url=http://www.bitzracing.com/docs/CIS_to_EFI_manual.pdf]http://www.bitzracing.com/docs/CIS_to_EFI_manual.pdf[/url
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wx4xAzeXH4

If you have not had carbs before you may not like the -noise-smell-upkeep, or youll love it .

Where does that information come from? Did you read Bruce Anderson's book? They took the CIS off a 3.0 and put early exhaust (which was a 914-6 system) and picked up 15 HP, without a cam change.

Gee, Perry, it's not like you're new to the internet.

OK miss stated your torque curve will change and putting different cams can help bump both torque curve and hp if done together....right?

I have a 3.0L CIS that will be converted to carbs and put into my 914. That is the plan as of now anyways. I get confused by the flywheel info, everybody says different stuff. I've read that you can keep the flywheel, but need to change the pressure plate. Or change the flywheel and keep the same pressure plate. Then the ringgear comes into play, what's needed on that?

@Beejay: Too bad we don't have better timing, I plan on selling all my CIS stuff once I tear it off the engine. And it works too. No idea when that will happen.

I purchased the kit from Patrick Motor Sports that included the Ring Gear, Clutch & Pressure Plate for about $600+-! That allowes me to use the flywheel from the 3.0L.

What's the consensus, on a budget, on using a CIS engine for a base? Can you have a CIS w/o cutting up a 914 and w/o $ custom parts?

I have a 2.7 CIS and I like the idea of FI (better MGP and don't smell like a gas-station after driving)...but the idea of sharp throttle response of carbs of ITBs is enticing.

I'm not planning on an engine tear-down so RS style pistons and big cams aren't in order...I've head you may be able to use SC or 964 cams with the CIS pistons, but I'm not sure on that either.

I'm just looking for the best compromise...thanks for your thoughts.

Am going with a 3.0 with Webbers using MSD. No muss, no fuss, no runners left on.

Apparently the top of the air box will interfere with the engine lid, you'll have to remove the springs and put clips on the lid to keep it down. Also I think grind off the top of some of the plastic on the box of a lip or two. All easily do-able, nothing major.

I have carbs on my /4 914 and while I do enjoy the smell of my engine when I come to a stop, I don't reek when I get out of the car. (at least nobody has said anything and I've asked)



Word. It's annoying looking at all the electronics in my 911 with the CIS. Wires everywhere. What a nightmare!

Ok, I have done two CIS conversions and have not cut the firewall. Remover the drip tray, cut the engine lid latch away and use pins or move it to the other side of the engine compartment.

I never cut the rubber between the throttle body and air plate.

All I ever did was mount the engine mount 1/2" below what Rich Johnson said to mount it.

Oh I did dent the firewall for fuel line fitting clearance on the first conversion, but realized I could have done it differently to not have to do that.

I will start a third conversion soon.

And yes, you have to play flywheel with the 3.0 and above. I had planned on sending Kennedy a 901 flywheel and having them convert it from 6 bolt to 9 bolt.

Oh well ... continue the discussion.

Yes, if you mount the engine lower you don't have to cut any rubber. But if you mount it normally, you'll need to trim. From what I've read, no real world experience - yet.

And if you did mount it "normally", all you would need is longer bolts thru the 911 mounts and a 1/2" tubular spacer beneath the mount (between the rubber mount and engine front mount plate".

if you drop it an inch you will need to rework the shift bar too
and grind a little off the RJ(motor side) mount for clearance of shift bar connector
you may need to plug the boot (topside) or just buy one without the breather elbo
( a leaking boot can cause a lot of trouble)