What are your opinions on the best balanced motor (larger 6) for the 914.

This is not a 4-6 debate...just an overall opinion of how you think the cars handle and drive with the larger motors.

I know Sir Andy has a 3.6, not sure if there are others.
Andy, what is your opinion...is it to much motor for a 914? To heavy?
Autox now not a fun sport with the large motor?

Figure a flared car, but not a super flared car.
Rich

I know when I drove the narrow body 3.2 euro six with motronic, I decided right then and there it was the engine for my car.

3.0 at 180
3,2 at 215

both doable , plenty of power but also livable..

Ive driven a 3.6 914,,,,,,, damn!!!!!!!

I drove a 3.2 flared car, I had wood for a week.

I am doing a project 914 Sixer with a 3.2. I am doing it because of the Motronic fuel injection and I live at 7,000 ft. part of the time. I still like the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4 with Webbers. If I still lived all year round in California, I would have a 1970 with one of those engines and Webbers. I guess I am from the "old school" which means there is nothing like glass packs and carbs to create the "sound". Light car with great exhaust sounds.

To specifically answer your question, I think the 3.2 is ideal along either a 3.0 or a 3.6 as second possibilities.

Steve Hurt

My 3.2 is on a stand waiting. Most of the paint is done and I'll do all the assembly over the winter. I must admit I loved the old 2.2 with Webers - what a sound!

But the added power of the 3.2 and having the Motronic for cold and damp mornings - anyone who has started a carb car in the late fall knows - to me it's the perfect combination.

I thought of the 3.6 but found the 3.2 out of a wreck with only 32k kilometers on it and couldn't pass it up.

3.0 SC for price

3.6 for performance

3.2 for price and performance

I love a 3.0 but the improvement in driveability with the 3.2 is so much nicer

The 3.2 Motronic engine is a great way to go, no clogged jets, no fouled plugs, reach in and turn the key.

The only complaint I had about my 3.0 carb'd conversion was the idle jets, and the occasional fouled plug. As far as driveablilty, the first time my wife drove the car she started from a dead stop IN 3RD GEAR! It didn't jack rabbit, just a little low end rumble. The 3.0 with carbs is way easier and fewer specialty parts.

I really like my 3.0 with Weber carbs. Simple with good power and driveability. However when going carbs if you have the coin go PMO vs. Webers. I have PMO's on my 83SC with the same 3.0 and the difference between the two carb setups is quite noticeable. The Webers are a pain in the ass in the cold. The PMO's are a pain for 20-30 seconds then smooth right out and drive great.

.....3.2
(drive 1 you'll love it!)

So what is "cold" when you guys say carbs have trouble? I've started my /4 with dual Webers and it starts like a charm in the upper 40 degrees. Hell they always start like a charm, even after sitting for months.

I regret to inform you sir but you have been had. You do not have a set of Weber carbs. What you have is a Honda.

Too much? No ...
Too heavy? No ...
Fun at AX? Yes ...


A few things about the 3.6L:

First, it's not too much power but it will get you in trouble quicker than you can say 'Holy shit'.
You have to be smooth and careful. Especially on wet roads.

You'll need some rubber. I only run 225x7 street tires and i can spin those at will in any of the lower gears. Again, smooth is the key.

AX is still fun, but i had to relearn about everything i thought i knew.
Remember when they taught you to look ahead a turn and set your car up for it? Well, those days are over. There literally is NO time between corners, let alone time to set up anything. If you don't nail your line coming out of a corner you WILL be in the wrong place for the next one. There is no time for correction ...

Once you hit about 4500 rpm, you're just hanging on for the ride. That thing pulls like crazy up to the rev limiter and still wants to go ...

The low end torque of the 3.6 makes for a wonderful daily driver. Get's good highway mileage too. I average about 24Mpg, and i don't baby that car.

Click to view attachmentT4 2.0 with euro pistions , great momentum car on the track, 30 mpg on steady cruise and stone reliable.
Marty

I have done the /4 thing...getting bored with it.
Looking for a deal on a /6 motor and the prices seem decent now...

I am looking for this type of car...quoted by Andy


Rich

Click to view attachment

3.3 biturbo in the 6...DON'T do it. Too much for a daily driver. On Sundays the roads are open and that's a different story.
Marty

IMHO there is no such thing as too much engine. Just lack of traction both in excelleration, decelleration and lateral direction. If you set the car up to handle the increase in HP and torque you'll be good to go.

One ebay (which I find tends to have higher prices than most places)
A 3.6 can be had for 5-7k
A 3.3 Turbo is 8-10k now.

with all of the above.
If you have the budget go for it.

I think a 2.8 would be interesting, that said my 3.1 turbo is great around town off boost, on boost

All these choices are great, but the Motronic certainly makes the cars more driveable on a day to day basis. My 2.7 has Webers, and I second the opinion on cold starting - my old 3.2 911 never had a hiccup on a cold day.

Unfortunately, my knees say that a LS-1 V8 with an automatic box would be nicest!

The nice thing is that a 914 chassis is a great starting point for whatever moves you.

My 3.3 turbo is quite tame under 3K RPM, then puts you in your seat above 3K.

I know the feeling....cant wait till Spring i think i may be done for the year, a winter storm is brewing......

Ask Ed Morrow about this one. That's him driving it a Willow Springs. 1989 3.2 with Motronic. It's STILL for sale by the way.

There is a big improvement in a 3.2 motronic vs 3.0 lambda/cis. Sometimes with the cis starting from cold, 5 sec after starting, the rpm falters. If you give it throttle to prevent stalling, it'll backfire and stall. The first couple accels from stop, the power uptake can falter and nearly stall. My cis also does not like to do 10mph rush hour crawls - it'll start surging and bucking unless I disengage clutch in order to settle it. None of these problems with motronic.

Mine is a 3.2 with Motronic. Starts 1st try cold, hot and everywhere in between. I have taken it from sea level to over 12,000 feet and it runs flawlessly. Plenty of power but still allows the 901 tranny assuming you aren't out on the track every weekend.

Unless you plan to go big time with a 915 and flares, the 3.2 can't be beat IMHO. I haven't had a disappointed passenger yet.

I don't think so...the 914 doesn't look like every other car on the road.

We are currently building a 3.6 varioram ('97 993) into an original 6 , and the fun part will be the new engine lid. The v-ram is a bit taller than the bosch flapper style efi. Engine was sourced from L.A. Porsche Dismantlers for $7k.
Pics posted as we go
Marty

From my perspective having a 3.6, some of the fun is lost in additional responsibility.

It's very fun to drive, but you need to take it seriously.

For balance, I'd have to vote for the 3.2 being the perfect 914 engine.

installation cost/complexity should also be mentioned.
3.0 w cis plug and play (kinda)
3.0 carbs eliminates cis that frustrates the part time Porsche mech
3.2 better efi still easy to install
3.6 is not a stab and go. the EFI , wiring and fit are more challenging. best low end for DD

i love my 3.0...but wish i had ponied up for a 3.2

That is a balanced answer, but I request more of an explaination please.

I'm currently running a 3.2 with a 901 stock gear box. Love the car, same opinion as others. The previous motor was a 2.7 with webers. The only downside with a 2.7 motor or bigger is the throttle induced overseer. Very dangerous on the street unless you baby the car around corners. I quickly put rear flairs on the car with bigger tires to control it. With the 2.7 I was running 225 in the rear. With the 3.2 I now run 245 with a limited slip. The car is very safe and controllable now.

How wide are 245 rubber, not the wheels alone?

Rich

I'll add another vote for a 3.2 for all of the reasons mentioned, but conversion cost was the deciding factor for me. I had a line on a 3.6, but the conversion was much more $ with the biggest expense being an upgraded tranny. I'm running the 901 with the 3.2, and as long as I keep my foot out of it in 1st, it's all good.

I've been considering selling it, but every time I drive it I can't get the smile off my face.

I have a 3.6L motor with a 914 transaxle and have run it that way since 1999. Before that I had a very strong 2.7L motor and loved that as well. It's a daily driver and track car as well and has been nearly 100% reliable when I execute the design-work right. I've driven delightful 4-cylinder cars and almost everything in-between. One thing is perfectly clear to me. As long as the suspension is outstanding, all motors are wonderful in this car. I also think that more power is good and there's never enough of it!!!!!!

The 3.6 has been superb and I chose the '95 because I didn't want to hassle with the two computers required by it's succcessors... I'm good with just one. The car has been a fun testbed for me to;

- convert the car to a 5-lug when I bought it (partially done by the excellent PO).
- make it stiffer.
- build and learn how to deal with CG changes and spring-rates as car evolved.
- increase the oil cooling capacity since the 993 motors have no on-board cooler.
- fabricate cockpit systems like heat, ventilation, and ergonomics.
- fuss with transaxle stuff like gear ratios, LSD, TBD, bigger CV's, etc.
- install lots of electrical stuff... not for a sound system, but instrumentation and additional fans for cooling.
- make it all happen with professional execution.
- put in a lot of seat time to learn to drive better and test all of the above!!!

S'been a BLAST mostly! Although I do miss the sound of the carburated 2.7L with a sport muffler... can't get that timber with a big motor. That said I wouldn't go back. I'm thinking 400 hp is about right.

Yah, 500 is too much. I never did get my right foot all the way to the floor.


Click to view attachment

I'll give you $5. That is, if you will accept an IOU. I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for your Porsche toady

Ahhhh, the toys you play with!

I'm running 245-40-17 tires on 9" Fikse FM10 rims. In the front i'm running 225-45-17 Tires on 8" Fikse FM10 rims. The car just slides sideways with a little bit of understeer. I am very happy with the setup.

OK... I'll bite and play Mr. Contrair in a pool full of 3.0+ guys

I've seen quite a few 914 chassis literally torn apart. Granted most were rode hard and put away wet but the chassis has it's limitations. So, while it can be a great "starting point" it should be strengthened and modified if you plan on utilizing all that torque.

To the original question; drivability? How could you go wrong with (almost) any of them. Quite simply, the more torque, the better it is in the drivability department. That's said, it's hard to beat a bigger motor.

I just don't think a 914 is very well suited for anything over a 2.7 (long term) Matt (hasaramat) was over today and we were discussing just that. For a driver, a 2.7 with E-Cams would be a dream to drive.

So... I'd say a street driven car with any motor you desire would be great. The 3.2's or the 3.6 would be tops on my list becaue of the "turn the key... go pick-up a gallon of milk" usability of the later fuel injection. Just keep in mind, if you get crazy with the right foot, all that torque will eventually cause some rips and tears unless you're fortified (and even then, it's questionable whether you can tame the beast).

Bottom line for me; I doubt if "I'll" ever put anything bigger than a 2.7 in a teener but... I could very well eat those words with a big happy smile on my face some day.

Ah but Mr. Contrair, while I have seen the 914 chassis torn apart it hasn't been from the torque of the motor in most cases. We have a local 914 4 cylinder with big racing slicks that probably has a whopping 130hp, maybe. It was the slicks that tore this chassis. And when Mr. Contrair says "tears the chassis" he does mean tears. It literally rips it back by the suspension in the rear. Not from rust but from those big ass tires...

Just another viewpoint...

Torque occurs when a force is applied perpendicular to the an object's axis of rotation. Slick's = Torque on the chassis.

It just happens quicker with a big six (or other hi-torque engine) installed.
If one takes meaningful steps to minimize flex of the rear suspension pickups and twisting of the chassis the cracks will never appear.

I'll take my CIS 2.7L .... starts everytime, anywhere (unless the fuel pump gives up) and has enough power to get in trouble. About as close to plug and play as you can get.

I may build a 3.0L 'cause I have one ... but I'm in no hurry to take it off the shelf.

And yes, I use a "T" for the rear brakes

One of the questions asked was the weight difference adding a larger six and it's impact on drivability. I really don't have any first hand experience driving a big hp six so I'm trying to compare only what I know, which is a v8 teener. My mild conversion added 250 lbs to my car, including the AC and I know how it handles with its hp.

300 hp seems to be a nice fit for a daily driver, but I must admit I don't AX and don't drive it like some of you do...just enjoy the power and windy roads.

I would like to do another conversion and the LS1 automatic is at the top of my list. A big six sounds great as well, but I'm not to sure I want to spend that kind of money in a 914.


Not to get off track, but does a big six really need to have the extra tire width thus the flares? I'm probably one of the only people on this planet that prefers a narrow body teener but with the extra power. I don't seem to have a traction problem, it just goes. Is that because of my extra weight? ...and my little old lady right foot.

245mm / 25.4mm per inch ~ 9.6in. Then a little for the sidewalls.

As for the question about a wide tire requirement... I think so. Although relatively skinny tires are better in the rain, there's a price you'll pay for them. You'll spin the car on wet pavement eventually.

If you are going to use skinny ones, even if it's strictly a street car, then only use very sticky compounds. In any case, only the best tires will do. The rest is up to your and your driving skills. On dry pavement they will be ok but the negative camber you'll need may wear them out sooner.

You would think the added HP would help you in Autocross. I should of learned the art of autocross with the 4 banger before going to a six. I spend too much time power sliding in the corners, which is a lot of fun!! It might also be the weight and lack of driving skills, but the 4 bangers kick my ass in a tight corner autocross. They can't touch me at streets of willow due to the long straights though. Lots of other variables, including street tires versus soft rubber racing tires and how often you autocross.

Of the 914's I have owned they have had 2.0 four's and 2.0, 2.4, 2.8 and 3.6 engines.

The 3.6 is worth the time, money and energy in my opinion. Yes, you need to do some chassis reinforcing but in the $$ standpoint it really doesn't cost much to do, just time...but it's fun!

The 3.6 for all around enjoyment just can't be beat. Computer controlled, gobs of torque, Porsche's best improvements to the air cooled engines. Choose a 95 3.6 and you get hydraulic lifters and OBD-I where you can drop in a performance chip in minutes and never deal with a valve adjustment.

Driving a 3.6 is great! You can stop worrying about what gear you are in as it doesn't matter.... it just pulls everywhere! Drop it down a couple of gears and you can smoke most anyone on the road.

In closing, a 3.6 is a true sleeper. You can cruise around like grandma's buick with barely a sound or scare the piss out of your passenger with eye blurring performance....a wild range of abilities and the ultimate car in my opinion. Other than the $$ to build I see no downsides. I love it!

Here's a pic of Gary Chapman's sweet ride. Fully street legal, complete interor, with a chipped 3.2 & 915 box & yada....it ain't light. He made a huge jump at AX going to the flares & big stickey rubber (from small stickey rubber). He *will* blow your doors off at AX (and his wife Pam might also).
He also uses it for track days & drives it to both types of local events.