Did 914's and buses have gasoline heaters and if so where were they and how did they work?

Love to see a picture if anyone has one.

No, and I don't know

Ersbacher? heaters ..... thought they were early 911.

Eberspacher made the heaters for the VWs. They have since changed their name to Espar. Do a Google image search for Eberspacher models : BN2, BN4, BA4 and BA6 and you'll see all the models they used in VWs. They now make models similar to the BN2 & BN4 models Called Airtronic 2 & 4. The website doesn't list it, but they ARE available in gasoline as well; not just diesel.

They are very well designed units (even the early ones in Beetles and buses). They are just like stock HE on your exhaust and work off the same principal.

Basically you have a S/S inner flame chamber where at one end, a small amount of fuel is mixed with incoming combustion air by way of an electric fan and inner vanes. It passes by a glow plug that ignites the mixture causing the s/s chamber to heat-up. There is an outer chamber that encases the inner chamber where a large volume of air is passes by another fan. Add ducting into the car and Viola!! A warm interior that is independent of the engine running and is much warmer than the stock HE ever could be.

Just found a video that explains it better than I can. . .

There is a lot of miss-information out there claiming that these heaters are dangerous and "explode" etc, etc, etc. Those are wives-tales retold by folks who have never owned one or even understand how they work. Eberspacher units have, since the early days, had safety switches, circuits and over temp detectors that cut power to the fuel pump if they detect an over temp condition. They also have pre-run mode for about 20-30 seconds before igniting AND run-on mode of 20-30 seconds after the fuel pump is cut off which purges the flame chamber of fuel vapors so they are safe.

The VW Beetles, Type-3s, Ghias (all w/ BN2) and Things (BN4) all had their gas heaters mounted in the trunk on the left-hand side. Buses had their heaters mounted either in the left side of the engine compartment when using a BN4 (from the 50s - '78) or under the bus when using a BA6 (from '79-on through the air-cooled Vanagon years). In all those cars they were only an option in the U.S. The Type-4 (411/412) was the only car where the gas heater was standard equipment (BA4 model). It had it's heater mounted above the transmission. This hearer was only classified as a heater "booster" since all air coming into the heater first came through the stock HE, but it could run independent of the motor and was a true gas heater.

Yes, they were available. There's a few threads about them in the garage.

Why is this thread in the sandbox?

Webasto made a unit specifically for the 914 ...

.....Corvair too
(& when it stops working....guess what you smell!)

and 356 and 911 I am not sure about other models, but I do know first hand that on the Things, the trunk was stamped differently where the heater sat, so you can't just put a heater in a Thing if it didn't come with one.

I guess watching my dad's '67 go up in flames in the middle of a Sears parking lot, on new years eve, with 4 fire trucks and police and a large crowd gathering was just a figment of my childhood imagination.

The "old wife's tale" comes from the late sixties when VW tried to place the gas heater above the tranny. Many rusted out, spewed gas and went up in flames. VW abandoned placing them there shortly after that do to liability issues and put them back in the trunk.

It was fun watch everyone hit the deck when the tires blew.

They were available. Never seen anyone successfully install one in a 914. Like any flammable based system, making sure everything is in good working order is a big safety concern, but a well maintained system is safe.

one kept me warm all thru Alaska. nice heaters, really hot ticket to get.

I will defer to your experience with your dad's car going up in flames; you were there, I wasn't.

However, in my experience with VWs, 99% of all fires are due to fuel hoses cracking and spewing raw fuel which causes a fire, NOT a malfunction w/in the Eberspacher heater itself. There's a big difference. Like all fuel hoses, if not maintained and changed regularly, you will have a fire. The other 1% came from fuel hose nipples coming loose. I've never seen an Eberspacher heater as the cause. Not saying it has never happened, I just think the heaters get the bad rap for the real cause which is faulty fuel lines.

What I was getting at was what McMark more eloquently stated; when well maintained, they are safe. I can't say that about the aftermarket Stewart Warner heaters though. They do not have the safety features of the Eberspachers and did start a few fires. Personally speaking, I would never use or install a SW heater.

What cars, other than the 411/412, did VW put the heaters above the trans?? In the U.S. they never did, ONLY the 411/412 and buses with the BA6 had them under the cargo floor. . . All the BA4s and BA6s that I have pulled from under the cars have been in pristine condition (once the dust was removed).

The ducting fits over the gas tank and under the hood still? I was under the impression that there wasn't room there. (but somehow I know the lightbulb in the fridge shuts off when the door closes)

Jim, notice the height of the filler neck on the other side. That's how much room you have to play. Also notice that the heater ducting runs through the front bulkhead, not over it.

Nice to know... Especially if I ever move back to Minnesota!

Any idea what the new Espar's run in cost? They don't list their prices.

It looks like it's ducted into the air blower box. Hard to see in this picture.
I have a neighbor with a long haul truck. I'm going to quiz him on this next time he's home in a couple of days.

$1149 online price

Yikes! Though, still cheaper + headers for a /6. And no heat exchanger fitting or poor heat issues,

ebay is your friend! Last year I bought a very nice Eberspacher BL1C for $500 on ebay from Germany.

The heat that it delivers it AWESOME!!!!

Had a gas heater in a 66 bus, heated fine when it worked. However, it apparently didn't have the preignition "purge" cycle, whereby raw gas fumes are vented before it lit off.

One of my greatest delights came when I started the engine after the heater had run for awhile and shut off. Every now and then it would ignite the raw gas with a blast that sounded like a 30-06 going off in your ear, with a ball of flame to match. Since this was a standalone unit its output was directed right at the passenger's feet.

In this case, it just so happened to be my girlfriend's/wife's feet. It always caught her by surprise and freaked her out, swore she'd never ride in that POS again. At least, that's what I think she said, hard to say since I was laughing too hard to make her words out.

Tom

Did you put it in your 914?

I looked at ebay a while ago, I'm not sure I feel real comfortable buying a 30/40 year old gas heater. Then also mounting such an old device near the gas tank.

Unless I can find some of the newer one's on there.

The type you had under the dash of a bus was the Stewart Warner. As I said, no safety devices on those and could be quite dangerous. Those don't even compare to the German-made Eberspacher. A properly calibrated Eberspacher is like a Swiss watch when it runs.

Yes.



Yeah... there's no way I'd use a 30/40 year old GASOLINE heater period!

The one I got is only a few years old. The new/modern ones are VERY awesome. German made

Pics, Info? thanks, mark

I had the same feeling ....................

Here's the new company.
http://www.espar.com/documents/product_catalogue.pdf
They use them on big rigs. Looks like theres two dealers here in North Portland.
I'm building a daily driver for here in Portland. If the dual blowers don't cut it. I'm going to go out and chat with them.

Here's the installation manual. Contains lots of good info.

Seems as thoough I can't add the attachement... here's a link to it. http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/techn...C_technical.pdf

Corvair used a gas heater made by Stewart-Warner. For the first year, 1960, it was the ONLY heater available. Beginning in 1961 either the direct air heater or gasoline heater could be ordered. I think the last year for the gas heater option on the cars was 1962, though it soldiered on for the rest of the truck production (through 1965).

Pic below is from the 1961 shop manual-

Click to view attachment

Seems like it would be a nice thing to have if you lost the HE for a tuned exhaust. IS there still a good source for these?

Bump to top

Thinking of doing one, I'm too old for no heat.
For the modern unit, if you are willing to install a small tank for diesel, truck espar bunk heaters are often cheap on kijiji/craigslist.

I've been wanting one of these Espars for my 914 for some time. I have never been able to find any good information on how to install one in a 914. They are the ideal solution for those of us that want to run headers. For me, heat is desired. I'd like to build a 2270cc motor but don't wan't to give up my heat and don't want to run heat exchangers on a 2270. I've been thinking a 2056 is about a big as I can go using my SSI heat exchangers. Jake said you can run heat exchangers on a 2270 but you give up quite a bit of power and the motor will run pretty hot. Sounds like a bad idea. I'd love to know if any of you guys have successfully run SSI's anything larger than a 2056. Anyone?

I've been wanting one of these Espars for my 914 for some time. I have never been able to find any good information on how to install one in a 914. They are the ideal solution for those of us that want to run headers. For me, heat is desired. I'd like to build a 2270cc motor but don't wan't to give up my heat and don't want to run heat exchangers on a 2270. I've been thinking a 2056 is about a big as I can go using my SSI heat exchangers. Jake said you can run heat exchangers on a 2270 but you give up quite a bit of power and the motor will run pretty hot. Sounds like a bad idea. I'd love to know if any of you guys have successfully run SSI's anything larger than a 2056. Anyone?

I run a VW bus with a 2.0 type one (so thats 400cc bigger than stock) with heater boxes with no issues. Also buses tend to run hot, but I'm not having problems. As long as you jet it so your AFR is correct I can't see it running hot, you will give up some power.
My guesstamation is if the engine would have been 160hp you would still have 130-140hp. Not too shabby.
Make the SSI fit header stubs and swap them out with a header in the summer.

Has anyone been successful with an electric heater? Poking around recently, I found this:

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/usa-made-1...ted-heater.html

It is probably to much of a load for the original 914 alternator, but for those with late -6 conversions would it be feasible? It seems compact enough to fit behind the fuel tank.

Hey Mark Henry!

Hey Mark! Thanks for the reply! That's a great suggestion about adapting the SSI's to fit the stub pipes. I have a nice new set of European Racing headers that I had ceramic coated inside and out that have been sitting on the shelf for the last year while I've been trying to decide which direction to go with the engine build. I also have a practically new set of SSI's that have only 200 miles on them. I was thinking that heat was not a big deal but I wasn't thinking of my better half when I came up with that. If I were the only one enjoying the car it would not have heat and would probably require ear plugs for extended driving. LOL!

They make new ones for tractor trailer sleepers. Do an ebay search for "bunk heater" or click the link below:

Ebay Bunk Heater

Yeah, I have always wanted to figure out if I could out electric heat in. Seems like this unit described here wants 40 AMPS (or a 50 AMP unit is also available) so you are going to need a higher output alternator. Of course, higher output alternator will take away some HP from your rear wheels. Trade-offs.... I think you can get the stock alternator redone to 90 AMPS or possibly a VW Bus alternator can be used...

This electric heater looks like it might be an option to consider. It would probably be mounted in the engine bay and run into the heater flapper boxes just like we run air from the fan to the stock heater ducting. it could also be mounted in the front trunk which would probably loose less heat than putting it into the back. The price is not bad either! Has anyone tried a heater like this in their 914? I never realized a higher amp alternator caused a power drain on a motor. Is this because of higher resistance to turn the pully?

Electric heaters ....I've said this before....
Could you just send me $50, the result will be about the same as buying a 12v electric heater, but at least I'd be happy.

Electric heaters have been tried since the 60's they have never-ever worked.
Trust a Canadian on this one.

I went through all this over a Seattle winter or three. No, electric is NOT an option. It's been said. Retry all you want and fail yet again.

An indoor-safe infrared portable propane heater can help. But a good jacket and the right formula of RainX is a better bet.

You abandoned the factory solution for heat and defrost. Some have good reasons, some don't. Maybe you should go back to that. It works.

My old school way is to dress for success..... If that means it is zero degrees outside then why does getting in a car matter? If a little defrost is all you need, then a 12v can help. But you have to get it.

Foley has a heater box that fits over one side and provides some heat, not sure how much.
Why couldn't you fabricate a heater box that fits over the European headers.
It's just a box with two holes for the large air hoses to push air in and out.

Might be a wierd jigsaw puzzle, but using two pieces screwed together and capturing some of the header pipes should do the trick, then you can unscrew it to service the headers...
It does not take much to heat up a 914 cabin.

Don't need heat much down here in Louisiana but the few days I would I am thinking of adding seat heaters when I redo the seats. I still have the stock heat system and it is all there but I think the seat heaters would be a nice addition and is easy to do if the seats are apart.

Perry K will pimp slap you for that idea

I've been thinking of doing the same on my /6, putting a box affair around the MSDS headers. I would agree with Perry it would be a bad idea as the mild steel tubes could rust out, but then the majority of us will never drive in the snow and salt .

If you were to try this I would for sure invest in this.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pspag...clickkey=134504

My brother came across this product which I believe is the same if not similar as a previous posting. We are thinking to use this as a source to keep the windows from fogging up and use the camp electric seat warmers. My brother plans on storing the car for the winter and this should be sufficient in a chilli fall/spring day. The org heater tubes in the longs are shot so they where removed.

http://dcthermal.com/catalog/sd12-4000-vol...ted-heater-copy

http://www.camp914.com/products/interior.html

Theres a fella in my town that just bought a 914 with a gas heater in it. Looks like the one in the red car pictured earlier. Actually looks like it might be the car too.

It seems that it would be possible to use an appropriately sized oil cooler as a heater core similar to a conventional water heater core. While it might be a bit slow to warm up once warm it should be able to provide plenty of heat. No significant electrical drain and no fuel issues.

That has been done as well, it's no where near as efficient as a water heater core, oil is actually not that great at transferring heat. Plus your engine would run way too cold during warm up, so if you were to try this I recommend a bypass thermostat like you would do for a front cooler.

Really you would have to think "outside the box" on this, lets face it, people (some of them quite smart) have been facing this problem for many years.
You can bet anything conventional you can think of has been tried.

Seats aren't really that hard to pull apart and back together.

My early European 911 came from the factory with a Webasto gas heater, although I'll probably never use it.

I had one of these 300 watt electric heaters in the camper on my '89 Toyota truck. It worked well enough to take the bite out of the cold when camping. It's still around here somewhere.

Click to view attachment


I picked up one of these a couple of years ago, also 300 watts. (300 watts requires 25 amps).

Click to view attachment


It doesn't get too cold in So Cal, unless you're in the mountains in the winter time.


If you need more current for additional electrical devices, one of our members here, Pete (pnewman), sells 105 and 160 amp alternators Click here