Any word back from the fine folks (rats) at OBX?

Obviously a native English speaker.

Ahh, brings back memories from when I lived in the Philippines years ago dealing with vendors. It's a simple 3 step process really. . .

1. You begin a conversation with the person but they are only using half their brain.

2. Half way through the conversation that half goes to sleep and the other half takes over.

3. Go back to step #1

Good Luck with that one.

Either pay for the CFR and get quality or buy the ccc and get nothing. (cheap chinese crap) They copied someone's design and did a cheap knockoff According to Marty Schneider it does not fit very well, and they did not do much research about hp like Chris did.

@Marty: just for interest sake: what is the outside diameter of the header pipes and wall thickness?

Thanks,
Walter

I also have a Eurorace on my car, and have been fighting poor quality control on it for ages. Chris and I have talked a few times at Hershey, and I wish I could spring for his system, but alas I am poor and have too many irons in the fire.

If you decide to go Eurorace, be prepped to fight with BIG leaks at the slip fit collector. I have been able to cure them for short runs with high temp silllycone. One of the pipes needs to be expended almost 1/8 of an inch to get a tight seal against the collector. It is very poor craftsmanship IMHO, and is on my list of things to fix this winter.

I think that the Eurorace can be made to work, but you need to be ready to fuck with it, and will want to cut off the Turbo muffler and weld on something quieter. Otherwise, you sound like a pissed off hillbilly on a big lawnmower shooting a shotgun during power downshifts.

For $400 more then what I paid for the Eurorace, I could have bought on of Chris's econo systems. Every time I think about getting under the car, I wish that is exactly what I had done.

Zach

Way to put it all in perspective Zach.I'm sure someone could take a cutoff wheel and a torch and screw with the OBX header and make it work until it needed screwing with again.It amazes me that in every industry the china crap keeps coming over and filling our land fills and emptying our wallets.

My son had a obx header on his sti suby and it was great. If the price is right I actually don't mind cutting and welding a decent ss header to make it better in my projects but of course it shouldn't be the norm and I would be pissed if the communication from the distributor was like that. It would be nice to find out if the others are that screwed up. Obx helical diffs for the suby tranny seem ok, the bolts and washers look a little cheap though. This is a good place to educate the community about the supplier.

it is not possible to bolt up the OBX Porsche 914 header. the fit is not close enough.

first off I am in NO WAY defending these assholes, but Ican assure you guys. this issues is not limited to the 914 market, nor is it limited to inexpensive chinese knock offs. I have installed 5-6 sets of headers on american cars ( trucks ) and have only had ONE set that fit well out of the box. these were name brands, Edelbrock and Hookers. the worst were the set I put on my suburban that I actually had to cut a section out and weld in an inverted piece to clear the spring hangers, I also on that same set had to RUIN the ceramic coating I paid extra for by taking a rosebud tip to both sides and heat each pipe cherry red in order to flex the whole header out and away from the frame

Like Chris said, you get what you pay for in this industry. Price a set of B.B. headers for a 930 or 951

On my 4x4's I remember on a couple of occasions I used a jack to move the header over and up to get it where I wanted it.

Now that everybody has chimed in I can say I wouldn't give OBX my money just out of principal. A Tangerine may be in my future but it will take me a while to get there. Thanks everyone for the replies.

I know its a different application, but I have OBX stainless equal length headers on my 914 suby conversion and so far they seem to be very good quality. So I guess it just depends on the application.

My son switched to a perrin header. I don't remember his reason but he gave me the obx and I shortened it at all the ports a lot and changed it some but it still works with the uppipe to the turbo. It's now only about 4.625 deep from the pan rail. It goes with a 8qt pan I built thats also 4.625 deep. I will need to come up with a new oil cooler/warmer though. It was a lot of work but I kinda like making things.

You hit it on the money. Deny is right. THEN they never warranty anything just say "buy more and we will give you a few free ones for every hundred or so you buy"
Different culture for sure.

Walter, we build these with U.S.A. cold roll mandrel bent steel tube with a .060 wall thickness, and a tube size of 1.5" od The mating stub (direct) coming out of the T4 cylinder port is formed from .125 c/r steel. These are built on jigs, and then assembled on to a T4 engine before coating/ shipping. Any deviations caused by thermal stresses of welding can be caught at this point and corrected if needed. Headers are fully warranteed (racing included) for 1 year. Auto Atlanta has developed these on their race car, and George has good success on engines up thru 2.2 L with his design.
It's no secret: a coated set of mild steel headers will outlive the CCC low grade (but very shiny) obx stainless headers .
Watch A/A 's site for a huge T4 header sale , at "Knock off prices" but you get the REAL DEAL made in the USA goods
Marty

Thanks for that Marty, but I actually ws curieus to the OD pipe diameter of the OBX headers. Are they 1,5" with 0.060 wall as well?

Click to view attachment
My hands on experience looking at various OBX headers at trade shows and various JDM auto parts storefronts here in SoCal ( with names ending with toyz, boyz or customz), indicates tubing made friom 18 gauge materials. This includes the collector also. 18 gauge is thinner than 16 gauge (.060), which explains why the system will fail early in its life expectancy. Combine this with the cheapest grade stainless steel (non ASTM spec) from the pacific rim sources...and you are the proud owner of an exhaust system with the life span of the former Cheyrnoble nuclear plant.
How to avoid this ? Just keep off the Buy Button and just say NO to the cheap bait priced online storz. Buy any "Made in the USA" exhaust products...these usually come with a thing called a guarantee !
Attached are my thoughts on this ...
Walter, I can not tell you the tube OD or tube gauge of the OBX...you will need to speak to their Tech/ QC dept. for an answer

Yeah, sorry, I thought you had one there, but the question is probably better directed at 'Sean V8 914' who had one in his hands.
Sorry for the confusion.

wow maltese why dont you just tell us how you REALLy feel...this guy is just trying to get the most bang for his buck....flame suit activate!!

Silver,
as goes the "Bang for the buck" philosophy: for a bit more Euro, the customer can get a proper fitting system. For a little bit more- than- that Euro, he can opt for the top of the line system, also built and offered here by a 914world member.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being frugal, but I can't spend my time installing anything cheap that requires a hammer. torch and machine shop. No flame intended, and nothing more O/T from Falcon .

No offense taken Marty; I used to have a complete 1 7/8" system from Chris on my 2.7ltr (believe it was even the first sold 1 7/8" back then), so I know the quality.
I went turbo, so a small diameter stainless header (even 304 is way better imo then coated or worse) is more appropiate for this and frankly, if you have build a custom engine, to have to make it fit is not much of a problem. Doing mandrel bends however is.
Its the only stainless system out there afaik as Chris doesn't do stainless and boy have I asked him more then once to pls do so ;-) Hence the interest.
Even for the materials alone, you can hardly go wrong with that price imo if your handy, but I understand also your resentness of chinese products, but thats a completely different topic I think.

Let me start this post by first saying that I am in NO WAY questioning the quality or value of the Tangerine headers. Their reputation for quality and performance is uneqalled within the 914 community.
That being said when someone asks about an inexpensive header, quality, fitment or suggestions about how to resolve and issue with a header or vendor...its not always useful to tell them to buy the best header on the market. The pay now or pay later rational can only go so far. Taken to its logical extreme it make as much sense as saying "well you should have bought a GT-3, you get what you pay for!" Ive seen it a hundred times those 914s are under powered blah blah blah...

IF the OBX header had fit or IF the company had honored their warranty as they promisised. it would have provided an inexpensive alternative at %13 of the cost and probably les than %13 percent of the performance.
It didnt. The folks at OBX are Dishonest. Thats the issue.

Not being able to afford the best of something does not make a person cheap or stupid.

Truth is we have a trade deficit with China because consumers have decided that they wont be too pissed off if their toaster breaks after three months if they can buy another one for $15 bucks.

My two cents

We are exporting dollars and importing trash.The american consumer is to blame simply because we continue to embrace price as the prime copmponent of value.As a society we don't care if it works as long as it's cheap.Then we compare the stuff that works to the stuff that dosen't and expect it to be similarly priced.The OBX IMO is priced according to it's value as long as the buyer is willing to re-engineer it to make it work.I'm staying with SS heat exchangers and my bursh muffler until I find something I like better for a price I can afford.It won't be an OBX.I will save my money and buy a Tangerine.Even the economy version is better value than the next step down.First I need an engine worthy of such a system.

I now have my own NC tubing bender Wally.
Once I have more die sets I'll probably start doing some exhaust systems in stainless.

Actually Chris - and sorry to anyone else for going OT a bit - at the moment, I think your 4-2-1 header would make an awesome twin-scroll turbo header if you left the last 2-1 part of and made it in stainless!
Turbo would then be at the rear and a downpipe would actually fit under the rear apron!
Since its for turbo, this time it would just be 1 5/8" primaries from the heads and not the silly size this one was ;-)

We're about to start a 6 cyl. project with 2" primaries using T321 stainless.
I think we could fabricate what you have in mind.

The obx headers I cut up were at least as thick as all the other headers I have used in the past and they were a good stainless as they were on my son's car a year or more and didn't get any worse than any other ss headers I have. Turbo headers get more heat and stress than na headers. He ran 26 psi and that means more than 26 psi up to the turbo with red hot tubes at the head ports.

Failure to do QC is not strictly a Chinese issue.

Also, the thought of dropping $1500 on a Tangerine header and then cutting it up to make a turbo header is abhorrent, no one in their right mind would go there.

At a $500+ price point, I would expect/demand a perfect fit, certainly at $1K++.
At $250 for 304SS... I'd expect to have to fight with it.

I have personally seen (repeatedly) the same clocking issue on the "made in the USA" EMW 411 HX replacement pipes, as an example.

Having said that, one user on the STF reported recently that his EMW HX replacements bolted on and sealed... Somebody should buy Jorge a beer.

Not everyone is willing or able to drop 1/1.5K into a mild steel exhaust system, no matter how good it is.

A1 makes an excellent system that compares well for considerably less, and will do it in SS for about 40% more, still about the same $ as a mild steel "economy" CFR.

I'm looking for a turbo header, the 304 SS is fine, OBX turbo headers on Subys have a reasonable good reputation, and the tubing is usually one piece CNC bent, no welds every 6 inches issues with cracking.

It's unfortunate the 914 market is so small, the issue will almost certainly not be fixed. I't's probably safe to assume Stubs will need to be added at least, fortunately they are easy to make from 1 5/8" material.

Chris will have no issues keeping busy selling his top end systems, there are plenty of folks who have plenty of money for quality.
Hopefully he won't have to resort to making only the few dozen 934 custom header systems sold in a decade.

summary refresher for 2012:
OBX AKA Racing Parts Depot in Oakland CA are dishonorable crooks. the header is crap. it will NEVER fit. OBX will not honor any returns, refunds or exchanges.
Happy New Year!

^^ +1 The header does not even go over the T4 headstuds! LOL!
The tubing is very nice, as are the welds, but the ears for mounting it are in the wrong position in more then one way. The 4-1 piece is also not really flow friendly.
It is pretty pathetic as an exhaust system as such indeed.
Still that was almost to be expected and for a bunch of nice stainless tubing in the size I wanted and in sort-off the position bend I was looking for, it'll do just fine :-)

For the price you are getting exactly what you pay for. I never understand why people are disappointed with the quality of cheap junk; it is to be expected.

Its almost a new year lest we forget!

have you ever looked into the Triad headers for a 4?

Any manufacturer here that has had any of their parts counterfeited by obx, PM me for a top notch IPR counsel.

I'm having my OBX headers shipped directly to Motormeister so they can install them there while they're building my race motor.

They may need your car to ensure the headers fit properly.
Get on that.

While you are at it, did you send the machine part to stromberg?

? seriously? i wouldn't be surprised if thats the case.

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but:

After reading this horror story of fitment issues with OBX headers on a 914 (along with some good experiences w/ other models actually) ... I have a chance to buy a set of OBX headers in nice looking 304 stainless. I can get them for around 2 bills shipped, which normally would be really cheap for such nice stainless. They've never been installed (wonder why ) and are made of really nice looking 304 stainless. So, if going into it fully expecting issues - do you guys think it's worth it, knowing that I may have to cut them just under the tabs and re-clocked them, have em re-welded (if necessary)?

You've read all the posts and you are still thinking about buying them?

If that wasn't enough ...

Some people just can't be helped

Um yea, 'cause I would not be paying retail and also would not be expecting the quality that one should receive if paying retail either. - and 'cause cutting and re-welding 4 small pipes doesn't seem like a big a deal to me! I'm not apposed to some fab work in general.

Where else you gonna find another $200 header - much less a pretty stainless one that'll last forever? It's probably not perfect .. and, so it needs a little work - but does that mean it's complete trash?



We're not all as wise and rich as you, I'm sure

I actually have a set that I bought off of another member for similar reasons to you. I wanted to try some of my own fab work on them. But the set I got had the header end cut off and a nice set of stub ends with bolt on flanges fitted already. Unfortunately I actually have not installed them yet but they do look good with the current alterations. The previous owner had used them on a race engine for a time. And like you I have never seen a set of stainless headers for the 914 other than the old SSI exchangers.

No point in getting shitty about it,all replies have come from the best around,if $200 go for it,when you cut it up don't for a minute think it will line up and seal...……….

Not knocking your purchase in terms of be a savvy & frugal enthusiast, but you might want to read up on Crystallization stresses on Stainless Steel. In this case, especially with super thin 18 ga. (last obx we examined), offshore SS alloys usually contaminated with "Other stuff" ; tubing mills are not held to Western/ nor Euro standards. Your tubes may require patchwork in their lifetime.Click to view attachment

If you're going to cut & weld on them, you MUST provide purge gas to the inside of the joints otherwise you'll get oxidation on the inside of thru penetration butt welds which will lead to cracking & joint failure. We X-rayed all butt welds where i worked.
That's an industry standard

This is what I'd considered too, probably the best bet 'cause then I actually could "expect them to seal" (right porschetub?).





Ok, I've taken note and will research that a bit.. still though, the price could possibly offset the concern, no?





That's a good point.. I'd probably have a professional do the work (one of the race shops over by Texas Motor Speedway) do the work.. but then that kicks the cost up too. So, that's why I'm even asking the question. It comes down to this: at what price point does it make it worth the effort? $220 shipped is what I've been quoted.

I would start off with the right parts. They will assemble easily and correctly. They will also have value if you ever sell them. It’s always more expensive to buy cheap crap, modify and then buy the good stuff you wish you bought the first time.

How cheap is your fab guy? At shop hours a day of work cutting and welding these to fit would end up costing you the same as one of Chris's systems.

If you are doing the welding yourself, that is the only way you are going to save money with these.

Zach

Hey Eric - did your set of OBX headers also turn out to be a nightmare for Motormeister to install... or did you make this comment in jest ?