Hello to all you engine conversion folks!


I am starting to plan out the next phase of life for my small block V8 75' 914.

As much as I enjoy driving the raw torque monster 355 small block, I am starting to crave the drive-ability & performance of a modern power train.

I am looking to get peoples impressions, who moved from the small block to a subaru engine, or other. (I know there may not be alot of you out there).

Specifically I am interested in how your driving experience has changed, and any thoughts on what you would have done differently.

A modern aluminum V8 with possibly an Audi trans is still a possibility, but I am liking the idea of a lighter platform.


Thanx ahead of time for your thoughts!

Cheers,

Matt

Driveablilty of the V8 has a lot to do with how the engine is built. It seems few of the guys going the V8 route build an engine for a light car. Torque is not the ticket.
There are lots of choices in cams, intakes and exhaust that can make a world of difference. RV cams, long strokes and shorty headers really don't make for fun ride in light car.
If you've got a good running V8 set up, you may just consider some of these items if you haven't considered them before. A short stroke free reving V8 can be a real hoot.

I like the idea of a v6.. IMHO my choice is the audi v6 with audi trani or subi flat 6 with subi trani.

A turbo 4 is great, but N/A power and reliability is just mountain carving fun. Besides with either combo 30mpg should be a piece of cake. 200-250hp is perfect for this chassis.

This is all my opinion.

Funny you should mention that Andyrw. Just got a call last night my half shaft adapters are done for the Audi tranny, and I think I finally figured out the twisted hall sensors on the block/head of the Audi 12v V6...

Yea, I never considered just changing out components in my current good running engine to change the power band. I guess going away from cast iron and carburetors what the direction I am thinking.

Andrew, I don't have much knowledge of Audi motors (other than the obvious 1.8t, 2.0T & VR6). My experience with the VR6 is unreliable and hard to work on.

Being a 2006 WRX owner, I have enjoyed the performance, mod-ability and reliability of Subaru engines. I wonder how the 3.0 flat 6 or 2.5 turbo would pace with my current small block.

I'm currently going from a 2.0 turbo Subaru to a 3.3 n/a Subaru.

the power from the turbo is nice, but it really lacks low end torque.

what are you doing with the 2.0 motor/ECU etc?

Rich

Are you going with a full ECU/harness swap?

Matt
What about going with an LS1? They are pretty darn lightweight, and I bet you could detune it/run it stock.. Then again you would have to go with another conversion kit, and you wont be running ideal RPM's on the highway.. With a engine/trani swap you'll be pretty ideal. Why dont you adjust the timing and put a throttle stop to get you to your desired HP and see what its like? Thats what I plan on doing for a while.

The Audi v6 is a pretty nice and reliable motor. Couple of issues with it, but regular maintenence solves all of those issues. But if your familiar with the Subaru then its probably the route for you. I am familiar with the Audi.

I've really enjoyed my V6. It's a mitsubishi out of a stratus that was modded to fit a big16G turbo. It will be coming out soon and be replaced with it's big brother, a 3.0 TT V6 out of a 3000GT VR4. The 2.5 has enough low end torque to get the car moving rather quickly, and it revs insanely high for a V6. (I was hitting 8.5k and it wanted more)

I haven't ever riden in a V8 car, so I can only report on my conversion I do have.

Andyrew, I haven't committed to where I'm going with the ECU yet. I've got an MS3.0 sitting on the shelf and it's tempting. That's why I went through the process of translating the hal signals to something more normal. Going stock is dead simple though.

Matt, the Audi V6 is a mule of an engine. Not amazing performance, but they go forever. Down side is there isn't much for aftermarket on the old 12v engines. That's kinda why I'm going that rout. Blazing new trails and all.

I have a 914 V8 conversion car that I converted from a V8 to a Subaru 6cyl engine. The V8 was a 283 with aluminum heads high compression 13 to 1 with a long overlap Rod Simpson cam (engle), roadhes lifters and all.

I converted this to a Subaru SVX EG33 engine and WRX transaxle.
The Subaru 3.3liter engine and transaxle turned this car into a completly different car. I think it is faster than before. Far more fun to drive and better all around. With the newer more modern engine it is so smooth sitting in the car I can not even hear or feel the engine running have to look at the tach to see if its running.
This thing feels like the engine and transaxle is made for the car. I'm real happy with the way it turned out. The total package just seems to work great. I don't know if its the transaxle or the engine that I like the best.

I really think any of the asian V6 engines would make a great conversion,but then you lose the transaxle option. I saw Okieflyr VW engine audi transaxle conversion and that looks REALLY REALLY nice and suspect it drives just as nice too.


Bob

I just converted my V8 from carb to Fast EzEFI fuel injection system. The difference is like night and day. The car now starts and runs like a modern car. No loading up, no cold start issues. No fuel sloshing durning braking or hard cornering. Better gas milage. Over all much more enjoyable to drive.
I will never change from the Chevy. Would like to add a stronger transaxle. The V8 sound and look always draws a crowd. Most people cant tell a Subie from a VW eng. ( I am impressed by the Subies although)
David

I replaced the 350 SBC in my car with an LS1. Just finished the swap last weekend and have just a few miles on it.
It was a good choice for me, I never considered anything other than a V8.touch the key and it starts,runs like a modern car. Losing the 110-120 pounds gives the car a different feel,a very big difference. Much more enjoyable to drive. The LS1 is not an easy or cheap swap but very well worth the effort.

Jerry

Perfect!

That is what I am looking for. I am sure that you appreciated your old set-up for what it was, but modernizing really makes the car more fun to drive with great performance and reliability.

Really appreciate everyone's input.

914world has a great community of helpful people.

Cheers,

Matt

Right on Jerry.

The modern V8 is very tempting as well. Did you go with a complete new renegade kit for the installation, or did you make your own engine & tranny mounts?

What trans-axle are you running?

Matt

I haven't driven a suby swap yet. I am in the process of one. No turbo for me. I like the normally aspirated. A change of cams on a ej25sohc & Outfront's Stinger ecu can get you in the 250hp range on pump gas. Seeing how little room they take up in my engine bay is nice too. I have a buick 215 v8 car also. My motor is out for a suspension ear replacement. Doing the suby swap on my other 914. The farther I get into the conversion. The more I am sure my v8 is going to be replcaed with a suby. I have an ej25sohc sitting there just waiting to be torn apart. Once rebuilt it will replace my v8 & be close to the same HP. It will also get in the 30+mpg. I can't wait to finish my current one. It will only be in the 190hp range but in a 914 that kicks ass

Sounds awesome.

Keep us all updated on how it goes!

Thanks again for everyone's input.

I forgot to mention while I have not driven one. I did get to ride in Dean's (sawtooth). It was very smooth accelerating. While I can't say there was the moment of torque I was thrown back in my seat. The powerband just felt nice & smooth. Overall it had just a totally different feel than any 914 I have ridden or driven in. I personally don't want something to powerful in my 914. I love the driveability of the 200-250hp. Any more than that for me I don't need or want. Good luck whatever you decide. I really like Bigkats suby 6 conversion. Found a ej33 ready to go for $600. I just don't have the spare cash to jump on it. Otherwise it would be sitting in my shop right now too . To many projects at the moment sucking up my cash

I love my V8 car, surely I didn't at first ! It felt like a shopping cart powered by a Cadillac 8-6-4 LOL. Nothing felt good. You have to refine the car to your liking. A few of you all have seen my car. Its a bit unconventional even for a V8 914. First off I didn't like the clutch pedal crammed up my AS*. So I made my own and pushed it far to the left. I didn't like the steering wheel size or placement. I changed that. I hated the shift linkage I paid good money from RH so I fitted my own shifter and it took a long time to get it to work correctly. The clutch system had loads of time to get right. Steering the car with big tires was a pain since I drive it everywhere, so I added power steering. My engine has a Edelbrock EFI, its a GM based tune-port injection and has taken a while to get the driveability correct. I didn't like the huge pressure plates clamping power because its just much harder to modulate so I installed a factory 930 unit. Its smooth and easy to operate. Seats were a problem, 3 sets later I have it right. The suspension had to be addressed, needle bearings, koni adjustable shocks, tire size and road height. I didn't like the way the engine was supported so I added two more engine supports. The exhaust was another issue, too loud or quiet. I added a pair of Ferrari 575 mufflers (eBay $200 buck), they have vacuum throttle plates. A switch to change exhaust tones. Perfect for my neighborhood and nicer a block away. The basic conversion is only the starting point.
HST, without being married to the perfect woman I'd still be driving an old Caddi 8-6-4 .

I have not ridden or driven anything other than stock 914's and I tend to be a bit of a purist, but I think sorting your current setup to fit the rest of the car sounds like a pretty sound idea. Although there is a side of my that screams "stick a vw R32 Vr6 in it!" With all my experience with vw's and all the other vw people I know, the Vr6 has been the best. I know several people with Vr6's over 250k miles and no problems. Its all about maintainance. The R32 engine Has gobs of torque and great H.P. and TONS of aftermarket options.

Cheers!

I have driven 1.7's, 1.8's, 2.0's, a D-Jet 2056 and A 3.2L Porsche powerplant 914's. I have ridden in Rick's 928 powered car as well. The car seems to start getting fun around 100hp and gets insane around 300 hp IMO.

I would actually love to build a Toyota 4.0 1UZ-FE V8. There was a guy in Georgia that was building one, but I havn't heard from him in a while. Nice aluminum V8, can build crazy horsepower reliably and uses the same adapter plate as the Toyota V6, so you can get one from Kennedy.

I rode in Carreraguy's ej20 turbo setup and that thing was a blast. I think it would be fun to build a turbo 4 setup. I also want to somehow fit a k20 or k24 Honda motor in a 914 (should I ever stray away from my purist mentality).

I was thinking about this thread as I was putting my trailing arms back together and realised how many engine combinations I've put in 914s. Realize, most of these were years ago so I'd be hard pressed to find digital pics. In order:

First was a standard 1.8 4cyl NA out of a golf GTI w/ a kennedy adapter and CIS. Drove like a slight upgrade over a stock engine. Dead dependable though, and cheep. Darned things are in every pick 'n pull in the world.

Second was a VW 1.8 bored and stroked to 2.0 with a VMS bottom end. The head was worked hard with all kinds of Oettinger goodies. 180hp on CIS. That woke the car up, but driveability suffered. No matter what I did, it seemed to have a throttle like a chain saw.

Third was a 1.8 8v turbo on CIS with audi 5000 pistons/rods and a 1.7 crank. Used the previous head with a more stockish cam. Much smoother than the VMS block. Cheep too, probably had all of $600 into that engine. 200hp the easy way.

Fourth was the same engine w/ a G-60 supercharger again, on CIS. That was probably the sweet spot for VW 4s in teeners. Pushed it to about 200hp and without the silencer, it sounded like a damned UFO. Smooth power band from the bottom to the top.

Fifth was an ABA block from the newer 2.0 8v engines w/ a 16v head and a big assed turbo. Google ABA 16v for similar setups. Switched to megasquirt. 300hp out of 4 little jugs. The engine was awesome, but it got a bit much. As usual, too much of a good thing finally happened and the chassis was destroyed

I bought a new chassis about a year ago, and I'm back in the fight. My biggest gripe with everything I've done so far was the transmission. No matter what you do to the stock transmission, it's not even in the same league as newer trannies.

I've decided to move to the audi platform engines and trannies. The biggest problem is comming up with a half shaft solution, but I've got that worked out and it was about the same price as a bell housing adapter from kenedy.

The nice thing about the newer Audi transmissions is they bolt up to almost anything VW and Audi made in the past few decades. Everything from the old 8v GTI engine to a brand spanking new Audi V8. The exception is the VR6.

I'm starting with a 12v V6 lump. Life finally settled down over here so I have time to play with the car again. I'm thinking a build thread will start shortly.

Hey Matt,

I converted my 914 to a 383 + 930 trans as I wanted a FAST car and it is.
My view is that if one is going to do ALL THE WORK of engine conversion,
one should end up with MORE than a puny engine.

Since you've already done the conversion to a Chevy, I think the best answer for you would be a shift to an LS1 as the SBC WEIGHT and HIGH CG are the negative issues of an iron V8. The 914 chassis was not designed to roll very much in corners and the tall mass negatively effects handling by inducing more roll.

If you also want the AUDI 6-spd, adapters are available, but I don't know about a shift linkage kit. AndyS has done all of this and his car run beautifully. The lighter weight and the F.I. make all the difference.

Let us know what you decide to do....

Terry

The vr6 engine is typically to long and tall for the 914 engine bay, It will work but its just not the best platform.

I can't stop looking at that. Badass... Hot Rod. Post some more pics would ya please?

I have a modified B5 S4, upgraded significantly. I can't help but think the stock S4 motor/transaxle (254/290-ish hp/tq) would be perfect for a 914 if it would fit.

I like my Subie turbo, EJ20. No valve adjustments, no oil leaks, heater. 33 mpg. Starts right off. Made it a more enjoyable, more modern car to drive. Normal oil filters and oil changes.
Fast......

lots of great responses...I have a small V8 in my 914. Its approx 240 hp, weighs about the same as a 2 ltr and its low CG makes it still handle great. My only detractor is the trans and I am trying to fix that with a modified side shifter, Renn Shifter and the JWEST linkage. I would also love a subie conversion but am happy with what I have. I have a LS1 crate engine sitting in my garage but its for my 1959 Chevy Apache truck...

You have any issues with the exhaust hanging so low?

I love mine, too. I had all the V8 stuff and was ready to convert but then went Subaru. Unfortunately I haven't driven the SAME car with SBC and Subaru, but I did get a chance to drive a friend's V8 car while he drove my WRX. His car felt "bigger" because of the weight. My car is still "throwable", like the original 4 or 6. I think it was because his car both had more weight (cast iron V8) and weight that was up higher where you could really feel it. He had a stiffened stock suspension (springs and Koni's) just like mine, but his springs were stiffer and he had a rear sway bar and more tires. With neutral power in a corner in my lighter car you could feel the tires kind of gripping the top of the pavement while on his they seemed to grip more. Not on top of the pavement as much, but more, and I think that was the SBC's weight and the weight being higher. The torque and power of the V8 were awesome, but the car felt more substantial. Not better or worse, just different. Frankly I LOVED the instant monster torque of that V8. Amazing. But in the end he preferred his car, I preferred mine, we both admired each other's.

There's another point. I don't know quite what to think about this and it's not scientific, but it seems that any time you double or triple the horsepower of a 914 you end up driving the car differently. It's not just water cooling, even the six and big four guys seem to lose some of the "momentum car" mentality. With either the Subaru or Big Four you could still treat it like a momentum car because there isn't a big weight change, but you don't. It's probably because when you have a light weight and low powered car your only choice is driving it like a momentum car. But when you have a car that's both lightweight and also high-powered you tend to involve the accelerator and brake pedals more. Why? I don't know... because you can? With a lot of track time and concentration I could probably change that back and be faster, but I won't. I LIKE what that accelerator pedal does so I press it a lot, just for the hell of it. I don't get 33mpg but I don't care.

Thanks for the compliments! I will scroung up some more photos.

Really enjoying hearing everyones experiences. Many creative garage engineers out there.

I didn't have issues with that exhaust, but it is different now.
The exhaust in that picture was actually part of the "smog legal" system. This car was converted when 1975 vehicles had to pass smog in CA. I still have the sticker that shows that it shall be smoged as a Camaro.

For the request for more photos...sorry these same old ones keep getting used.

Thanks to Kg6dxn (mike)

I don't have that big muffler hanging down.


Amidst my headlight conversion:


First attempt at headlight conversion with Acura TL projectors (sorta fail):


Without lenses:

That is one bad assed 914. I wouldn't go much smaller on the engine if you have a choice, wouldn't seem to do the rest of the car justice. Since I'm going through the process now, I'm still a fan of the Audi platform as you get engine performance AND a tranny that doesn't shift like a tractor.

Somehow the early aluminum block Audi 32v V8 comes to mind if you can find one in good shape, they're nickasil so honing them isn't an option.

Matt are those wheels put on backwards, and if so did you do any machine work to the mounting face to do this.
The car looks nice and lets see some more interior pictures.

Bob

Hey Bob,

Yes they are backwards.

No machine work at all. Bolt on.

Inside:


Outside:


Interior needs alot of work. This is an old shot before I got the wiring cleaned up a bit.



Wood dash & push button start was an interesting touch by the previous owner.