Hello all...

I have seen many threads on here about front coolers, but they all use the GT system mounting the cooler inside the trunk, and venting underneath.

Just wondering if there is a less 'destructive' method where I can mount just using the valance?

If not, can I carry a spare using the in trunk method?

thanks.

M

A long long time ago, in a far away Galaxy ... I was a member of a 914/6 race team. We pulled the stock front valence out ... reinforced it with tubing ... cut a hole in it and mounted an oil cooler. Worked well until the driver hit a cone @ Holtville and busted the AN fitting on the return line .... 13 quarts of Castrol "R" on the track.

Anyway ... my next idea/project is to take a Long Tru-Kool 11" X 17"? plate type cooler (it's now mounted in my rear trunk, over the starter with a fan on top) and move it to under the front trunk like the SC A/C condenser. A slight tilt and a shroud to direct air combined with the SC protective front bar & rock screen should give me cooler protection and sufficient cooling for anything.

Just an idea. I don't like cutting holes in the body.

I have also thought of using the Trombone style cooler, but can't see a reasonable way of getting airflow to it. Another thought is that pipe (aluminum or copper), run underneath the body pan with a couple of loops up front, might provide sufficient heat radiation.

Someone does make a front valance with a rectangular oil cooler support. I've seen it here and there, maybe look at Pelican or AA sites.

As stated above, the stock front valence doesn't have enough clearance (below the trunk) to mount one without molding a rectangular, forward-facing intake area into it. There is room in front of the GT-flared front wheels to mount on there like the 911's do, and you can get a small one in front of the rear wheels as well in those cars.

In the straight bodied cars I don't know about those wheel well clearances. Mine is an in-trunk solution because I hate the low position of valance-mounted coolers, especially in street cars. Curbs, speed bumps and the occasional high-centered asphalt constantly keep those in danger.

Yep. I kinda agree. Was just checking if it was possible before cutting up the body.

Was measuring up and think I might be able to run a spare tire in trunk too. Anyone done this? I really don't want to end up sticking it in the back.

Cheers,

Martin

Also, I don't need to run a huge cooler methinks, Its only a 4 cylinder 2.2L

Here is a link to my oil cooler question and install. Maybe it will help you.

I have seen a cooler mounted in front of the bumper, roughly where the license plate would go. In fact, the plate served as a cover for the cooler.

It got lots of cool air there, so it was pretty effective. But heaven help you if you hit a rock (on the street) or a cone (at an autoX) or anything tall-ish and solid (at the track).

The owner who installed the cooler thought it was a reasonable trade-off; he was confident in his ability to avoid hitting anything hard enough to puncture or crack the cooler. I wouldn't take that risk in my car.

--DD

The car in my avatar has a cooler mounted outside the body in the front but it has an IMSA fiberglas bumper; PO did it that way.

I have also heard of mounting the cooler inside a fiberglass 75/76-style bumper out front of the car. I prefer having mine inside the trunk where it's protected, although I suppose if I were in a front-end collision I'd have more to worry about than just dumping some oil...

Yes there is.

Some of the early GT cars did just that, the cooler is simply mounted under the bumper. If you run a custom "lip", you can even divert any warm air off to the sides and prevent it from getting under the car.

No cutting the trunk and no additional warm air under the car ...

consider "finned tubing" that you would run up each side under the rocker cover...possibly adding louvers to the rocker covers.

The added thermal displacement might make a very short (more thermal tubing) cooler in front possible...then run another tube down the drivers side to return the oil.

If you do the math, that is a huge oil cooler when done properly.
There is room under the rockers for this approach and there would be just a few holes for the oild lines..

Rich

Since I am doing a 6 conversion I decided I will need an external cooler. I mounted my cooler in the front trunk and used a space saver spare.

Here is the spare mounted:


This is the bracket I fabricated:



And this is the first mock up I did with the Mazda RX-7 cooler:



I'm presently modifying the setup to rubber isolate the cooler and use dual electric thermostatically controlled fans




Next will be deciding where to run the oil lines....

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So on my last six we used two smaller VW oil coolers and mounted one each behind the the fog light grills and then used SS flex line to run to a thermostat on the passenger side of the car back at the engine. I got plenty of cooling, car never got over 185 degrees (3.0 w/CIS) and I did not have to cut anything up. It did mean no fog lights, but I rarely drove the car at night. I replaced the fog light grills with the chrome blank grills. Looked stock.

I was also maybe thinking of running a double engine lid and mounting the cooler to that perhaps? keep everything at the back.

I had a cooler mounted up under the boot floor a while back but a stone ripped through it on a track day and I minced the engine as a result. very costly. I think inside the front trunk or under the engine lid. anyone seen this done?

Yes, there was a post here a few weeks back showing a nice install of just that.

Depending on the size/HP/torque of your motor, i'd be worried about not getting enough air flow to keep it cool.

Especially in a racing environment ...

I like the idea of the short oil lines and ease of installation but I personally would not mount anything on the intake air side of the engine that would generate heat. The engine fan would draw the heat from the cooler only to blow it on the engine. Doesn't make sense to me.....

I realize that 911s put the AC condenser there but I still wouldn't do it

This works pretty good for me. Under left side of rear trunk with ducting from the rocker panel. Made a new shroud since I took these pics. Ignore the Home Depot stuff.

More

Why not just run a loop cooler in the front fender?

Holy crap Elliot, Your black car was yellow at birth!!!! Shame

Martin,
There are some pics in the thread below on how I mounted an oil cooler / electric fan in the right rear fender on a four cyl car.
How hot is the oil getting right now? And is there anything wrong with the cooling system? I think I created my own cooling problem by blocking off the outlets on the bottom of the fan shroud...it actually works much better if they are left open, just something to check first.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=14647


PS: I'll be moving to the U.K. in about six months (RAF Mildenhall) I'll be happy to help you if you need a hand once I get settled in!

Thanks Dominic! And welcome to the UK.

I think im gonna go for mounting it up under the tranny/floor again, and risk the stray stone possibilities. Makes me nervous though, but it seems to be the easiest and simplest solution.

I really need a proper spare upfront so it pretty much rules out a front cooler.

Ok... so I did some more reading and I think the rear trunk method will be best for me, but in a different config than usual...

going to use a mocal 235 matrix cooler (13 row) mounted the other way from a fan system, allowing free flow of air...

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please excuse my photoshop effort! It kinda makes the point though. What I can also do is make up a very simple metal shroud for this which will prevent any more stray stones.

Thanks for all your help everyone, I finally worked out a solution... unless anyone thinks this wont work of course???

I have the same issue with my transaxle cooler placement. There is a lot of room above the exhaust pipes but it's all... above the exhaust pipes. The temp there is prohibitive unless you've completely enclosed and insulated the cooler, and as a safeguard, put a shroud above the exhaust pipes as well. Technically all of us should do this anyway. I think the fan(s) would be required as well rather than rely on free flow. I put my auxiliary cooler behind the tranxaxle between the pipes and don't have to run fans.

The inboard CV, the transaxle, and stuff in the rear trunk would all benefit from less exhaust-generated heat. My exhaust valve seals and valve cover gaskets (on the six) would last longer too. If I ever get off of my duff and do it, I'll fabricate some shields to run the length of the headers. There are other projects that keep getting in the way darn-the-luck! Like a bad 993 fuel pump or fuel-rail regulator that just gave out yesterday. Gotta look at that this morning!

Good luck!

I've wondered if anyone has taken advantage of those two air grilles in the front bumper and placed a small cooler behind each that vents into the headlight buckets.

You get the ram from the front and the low pressure off the hood to vent. Might be a small cutout into the buckets.

Colin Chapman of Lotus fame was big on getting great cooling from a front radiator or oil cooler with a small opening behind it.

Yep, Post #15 in this thread talks about it. If I only needed small coolers I might do it. The air is much cooler up there and there isn't as much FOD (Foreign Object Damage) either.

Nice exhaust manifolds !! Who makes them?

Here is the Gunnar 914 using twin coolers at the front.

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Mounted at the horn/lite grills

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In my previous DD 914, I mounted the oil cooler in the right rear fender well forward of the wheel with no fan. That space is cavernous.

It definitely made a difference, but I dont know exactly how much.

I was thinking I would do that again on my race car if I can find a way to duct air to it.
My vintage racing club does not allow any holes to be cut in the body for venting purposes.
Maybe a scoop underneath?

Stu

PCAR916 or anyone else, do you have pics of a front fender mounted oil cooler on a flared 914 ala 911? I measured tonight and it doesn't really seem that there is enough room if you consider wide tires and the clearance needed when turning. Some of the aluminum high performance coolers for a 911 are about 8" wide and about 22" long, 2.5" thick....looks too tight to me but I don't have one to stick up in there and try.

I don't know anyone who's put them in the front well and have no pix. In fact, I've seen more folks put the cooler in the rear wheel well than the front and I like that placement. You have to protect the cooler from road debris damage in either case. Isn't this an auxiliary cooler or, as in my case with a 993 engine, the primary cooler?

Size is everything and how many BTU's have to be transferred determines how big a cooler to run. If it's an auxiliary cooler, and not a race car or in a really hot part of the world, you likely won't need a 911 size cooler and perhaps a B&B or Earl's cooler will fill the bill if you don't like the trombone idea. That solution uses far less space and uses no fans at all, and you can get them out of '80's SC's and Carrera's.

Aftermarket coolers can be bought much smaller and fans make all the difference in the world when you need 'em. Air can be deflected or ducted into and out of the cooler.

I was thinking specifically abou the cooling requirements for a 3.2 or 3.6 conversion used for street and DE......in the South.....in the summer.....in stop and go traffic.

I'm in the south and have a 3.6 but it's very different from anything earlier ( 3.2 and smaller) since it has no onboard cooler behind cylinder #6. As such it's oil cooling is entirely external which means much more real estate used in the oil cooling task.

I even have an auxiliary cooler behind the transaxle in-between the exhausts that is in the liquid, high-pressure circuit for the second oil filter. The 993 has a small filter mounted on a console that replaced the engine-mounted Behr cooler. Was that complicated enough?

The 3.2 will need an auxiliary cooler in really hot southern summers especially in town, and certainly on the track. jt9146 uses one on his 3.0L car. I didn't have one on my 2.7L when I moved from San Francisco to Little Rock and didn't need it until summer came on. and track days started.

Good luck

Too bad about the rules! You could cut a duct into that spot from the engine bay, maybe mount a fan even. Or just put a fan on the cooler and see what happens.

I put a 12X12 plate cooler in that spot, ducted in from the side using a MR2 grille. (The car had a huge gash there already, cutting a hole made it easier to straighten...) Fabbed a plate to act as stone guard that followed the curve of the fender. Worked great!

I use a Mocal sandwich adapter, fits under the oil filter, so NOT full flow. But if the cooler ever leaks, just spin off the filter, remove the adapter and spin the filter back on and it's good to go.

I run the RX7 front cooler now, mounted in the 916 nose. No holes in the body, just a little space to let some flow. Still more than enough for street driving. I run it in summer only as I find that the oil never gets warm enough to avoid condensation (foam in the filler cap) even with only the stock cooler.