Hi Gang,

I'm currently running Bilstein's all around on my track car. No special valving. Right out of the box.

If we were to assume the current set up at the bottom and the JWE Fox shocks at the top, what are my options in between?

My current car setup:

Front =
---------
23mm solid t-bars
27mm Smart racing AR bar
911T struts, calipers, brakes
turbo tie rods
Bilstein shocks

Rear =
--------
350lbs to 450lbs springs (depending upon track or application)
adjustable perches
Bilstein shocks
944 calipers and brakes

I will be going to bigger brakes all around, so I won't have the 911T struts much longer.

What are my shock options and approx. costs?

i.e. low end $500, Fox shocks $4400....

We run this car at Thunderhilll, Laguna Seca, Sears, Buttonwillow.

Thanks,

Bill P.

wasn't Smart Racing supposedly working on making some affordable triple adjustable external resevoir shocks?

SmartRacing and affordable in the same sentence, Sean?

do you guys remember? there was an article in excellence where they went to sears or laguna, maybe thunderhill and ran a prototype of them against another shock (stock?)

this was probably 9-12 months ago.

someone else out there has to remember other than me.

I remember sean...
(probably still out of my price range though)...

Bill,

check out Carrera custom valved shocks..
I have NOT driven on mine yet, but did get custom length and custom valved shocks for both ends of my project car....

even though I have not driven on them, there are a dozen 914's in colorado running them (all custom valved for spring rate) and I hear very good things... thus the reason I got them....

I can almost guarantee they will be less than the smart racing...

I bought mine through a tuning shop/race, so I don't have any direct contact info for the company.
brant

Yep, those are the Fox-shocks mentioned above
I thought they were in the $900 - $1100 ballpark for a set of fronts (shocks and struts)

cheers,

Jeroen

I believe they are the $4400 shocks and strut combo's.....yikes!

I know of other shocks like Koni's and Advance Design shocks...

Bilstein will revalve yours for 65 bucks a pop.
Works for me.

let Bilstein valve your shocks appropriately.. You will need to supply them with your corner weight info, hp info, the intended use ( rough track, smooth track) and they will valve the shocks to suit, the last time I had them revalve shocks it was $110 a pair...


I have Bilstein RSR front struts in my 914, Im thinking of having the struts and inserts shortened, Bottoming the suspension at over 100mph sucks...and makes you soil your undies..and this is with 450# front springs

If you are going to replace the front strut assemblies anyway, I would consider the Fox (SRP) units or the Bilstein RSR types. Neither will be cheap but can be valved/adjusted to exactly your needs, including spindle height. The main issues in terms of rules are probably whether you are allowed to use external reservoir shocks; coilovers; or modified spindle heights. Most of the vintage groups are uptight about such things, while the "GT" classes in PCA etc are pretty much open.

For the rears, either custom revalved Bilsteins or perhaps better, externally adjustable Koni's (the race ones $$$$).

Just my $.02...I don't have these goodies yet myself (Rallye/Sport Bilsteins at the moment) so take it for what it's worth...probably about $.01

Bill,
on the plane to Houston I was reading my new issue of Pano.
On page 75 is the smartracing ad.

Fox Racing Shox
Front $859-1189
Rear $364 - 659

that's each

I held/touched a set of those SmartRacing struts a few weeks ago.....works of art......I so want a set, but it's hard to cough up the money* for something that cost more than my entire car

*not having the money, I guess it's a moot point, LOL

I was afraid to go look to see if that was each/pair.

If they were to sell those as a pair at that price, they would sell a lot (IMHO).

not even on my wish list priced each

If those are EACH, than I'll scratch them of my "want list"
I think you could get a set of JRZ's for that...

cheers,

Jeroen

I'd be suprised if the 1200 is "each". IMHO that is too close to the price point of the Motons and JRZ's to be seriously competitive.

Also obviously you could get a pair of custom valved, threaded RSR Bilsteins at that price point.

Has anybody talked to Craig or one of the other SRP people lately?

For those of you who said: "have custom valved shocks done"

It doesnt work that way if you want to go fast. Porsche hasnt sent a factory race car out into public with non-adjustable shocks in almost 15 years now. Every top SCCA/PCA/POC AutoX and road race car has "at least" 2-4 way adjustable shocks on it. Each track/each venue requires a different setup. You wont get this with "custom valved" shocks. You can get close, but what works for Portland may not be worth a damn at Buttonwillow as far as valving goes. Most of the top drivers in GT class SCCA have been running Penske's since 1995 or so.

FYI: the Fox shocks from SMART are only two way adjustable. The hot ticket is 4 way (Moton/Ohlin/JRZ)


B

This board rocks!

Look at all of the great information pouring out. I'm looking at page 75 of Pano right now. Those Fox shocks look pretty nice.....

Just planning ahead for how much I have to save....

Me wants better shocks....

B,

Is the $859 to $1189 each that is listed in Pano each or for a pair?

Brakes/Shocks are the next big ticket item for me.

Bill P.

Gud idea, Brad.

Spend $5-6K for some shox.....another adjustment to fuck around with in the staging lanes, eh?

I got a news flash for ya. Rather than dick around with the car, you better be concentrating your driving cause that's what the "fast" guys are doing.
3 runs and you're done in SCCA, so you better have your car's shit together when you get there.

Got a chuckle this last Sunday.
Couple of AX buddies got in a test session in the Pro Pits when a local bucks up racer was renting the big track. The car they share is a Boxster S set up at Fordhal's place. So one of em is telling me about it. I tole him he was a "one way sumbitch" for not letting me in on it....with a of course. He went on at length describing all the good shit they had accomplished. He & I usually are prettty close timewise and his co driver whupps on me.
I tole him that if I beat him (I hadn't run yet) I was gonna be insufferable.....beat both of em'

I checked with Kanna Motorsports a little while back
They have a similar set of struts (adj. spindle height) but with Ohlin 3 way adjustable shocks
He quoted me $4700 for a set of fronts...

I'm not saying that's expensive, but it sure is a lot 'o money
And I seriously doubt I will benefit from these trick shocks
I'm sure they're the hot ticket for someone who knows how to set them up, but I think it's WAAAAAAY beyond my skills to adjust them properly.

I've seen racer friends who got JRZ or similar setups on their cars, just "because it's the stuff to have" and seen them getting blown off the track by cars with yellow Koni's because they are incapable of tuning the shocks.
Not my idea of fun after spending well over $5000

I'm still in doubt what to do...
Just get 23mm t-bars and yellow koni's and see where that takes me or go for coil-overs right away

Ah... I've still got time to think about it

cheers,

Jeroen

Ya-roon,
How is the 914 project coming? Any progress or are you like Mueller, still in the disassembly phase.


Sorry to steal the thread.....

Geoff

JP,

It takes one time at a local venue to set the 4 way shocks. Once you get the event surface dialed in record your settings and set the car prior to the event. You shouldnt be dicking with them in staging lanes. Fordahl runs Motons on his 9146.. cockpit adjustable/remote resovoir. He adjusts them sitting in the car/staging lanes when attending a new venue.

You know I push the whole "driver" issue.. I have 6 newbies out right now on street tires and all of them are whining about going to stickies... I tell them another 8 events and then we can go stickies.. they need to learn car control on street tires. Only one of them has Koni adjustables.. I set them for him after I see the car go around the course.

Bill can drive. Bill asked the question. Bill is ALWAYS finishing in the top 4 if not the top 2 at our PCA events. His next purchase will be adjustable shocks.

B

I want to go to Konis because I want to go from hard to soft from autocross to street. Then again, a full tank of gas takes care of the front end.

What do you think Brad? I still don't know $hit about adjusting my own car (thanks to you doing it).

Brad:

I ran street tires. The only thing I learned is that the ones I was using sucked big time. It's tough to learn car control when you're going backwards
Next event, I had stickies and have never regretted it. This latest set is the best yet. I can throw the car around with a high degree of confidence. Stepping over the line doesn't necessarly mean a DNF.....it just looks ugly...and you pay at the timer.
So I totaly disagree with your street tire thing.....that's allowed, right?

Mr. Fordhal ( Mr. Gulick's car) must know which way to turn the knobs.....hardly suprising since he does Alex Jobs' set-ups....and his butt is in the seat....and he's been been driving AX since Christ was a corporal. That's another level...like Tiger Woods golf game.

I'm happy that Bill's car is well enough developed so he can justify spending big bucks for shox.

To me, (on my car) $5-6K is wide body work and 10 inch slicks/wheels to go under it.......who do you think would get the best bang for the buck?

Okay Okay! I'll chime in!

The fox is a reasonable shock, but for racing I feel the shock shaft diameter is insufficient. I think it is 14 or 16mm, sorry not enough strength when a side load (corner) is applied. JRZ good shock, too stiff on low speed compression. Their Idea of low shaft speed sensitivity is V2 damping which I don't undertsand. But they will work okay, although I would soften the low speed valving to work properly.

Bilstein, If you want something reasonable with some adjustability then here is where you probably should go.
Koni, okay as well and Ron Wickers 914 FP is very fast, his suspension comes right from Roger Kraus, or last I heard it did.
For me and Maybe I am partial, but I want the best, Ohlins. Maybe because my Swedish heritage demands it, or you will find Ohlins suspension on so many championship winning cars, it is not even funny. Tony Stewerts championship was on Ohlins. A local California race shop uses them, but sells Moton. Which are also good, but too much low speed compression. So Kanna is where you have to go if you want the best. I am a little disappointed the price keeps going up, but what the hell. So are you looking for the best or just something very good. When it comes to suspension, your wallet makes most of the decision. I have included a shot of my rear shocks. These are double adjustable, low speed compression and low speed rebound but I will be converting them to triple adjustment, adding high speed rebound. Just call me a control freak.

Erik Madsen 914-6

Ummm

Sorry had to do it

- Garold

Sorry Would 'nt accept my JPG file for some reason, will play with it.

Erik

Try this!

Koni now makes an adjustable front strut for 911's. Im having my struts converted, In the rear I use the Koni 3012, it weighs in at 3 lbs, and is adjustable for both compression and rebound..

Look Here

The problem with the high-end adjustables (besides costing >$1000/corner), is that you really have to know what the F* you are doing in order to set them up! Easily 24 discrete settings, per corner of the car! And obviously that is on top of all the other setup variables we have to deal with -- spring rates, swaybars, tire size/type/pressure, alignment, yada yada yada.

Personally my brain hurts enough as it is.

With my car at this point, I should be able to pick up 8-10 secs/lap with no more parts swapping on the car, just setup and seat time. If I ever get "too good" for this 914, I'd be inclined to buy another car as opposed to pouring another bag of $1000 bills into this one.

OK...well I might build a new engine this Fall if the money genie is good to me...but no current plans for $4000 shocks.

How much?

Looks like I'll be saving for awhile!

Bill P.

Those double adjustable Koni's look about right
For both my driving- and creditcard skills

cheers,

Jeroen

Wow...those Koni's look good too!

I'm with Chris...my brain hurts But I'm bad...I like fiddlin' with my setups. I actually log everything I do in a setup book and use data collection to put out charts and graphs. My wife calls me Mr. EXCEL.

Hey...data don't lie....

But neither does my wallet!

This has turned out to be a great thread. Thanks everyone! And keep it coming!

Whatever I end up doing I'll take pics and report back. If it's high end stuff, it won't be till the end of this year...

Bill P.