I am trying to figure out what to do about my suspension. I want dampening adjustability and height adjustability. I am not very familiar with products for the 914. If it was any other car I would go with something like Tein SS or H&R etc.
What coil overs do you guys use? Any full coil over setups available? (Threaded shocks not sleeves)
Should I go with a koni shock threaded sleeve setup? I have a budget of about $800 give or take. I would like to get a new torsion bar too.
Does it make any difference if I am doing a 5 lug conversion from a 911 in the front?
Where did you get what you're using?
Full Version: Coil over options - what do you use?
This is what I sell when I can get the Koni's.
I like to use Eibach springs.. but have had a hell of a time getting them lately.
B
I like to use Eibach springs.. but have had a hell of a time getting them lately.
B
Hey Brad,
Do the adjustable threaded collars come with the Eibach springs? Is it something that the DIY guy can install?
-Rusty
Do the adjustable threaded collars come with the Eibach springs? Is it something that the DIY guy can install?
-Rusty
All the pieces can be bought seperate and yes.. anyone can install them. They just slide down over the shock body and sit on the spring clip.
B
B
Where can I get the konis and adj. spring perches for mine and how much do they go for?
On Brad's recommendation I ordered mine from Ground Control.
http://www.ground-control.com/
I have the Yellow Koni's with the coilover and adjustable perches on the rear. It is very easy to put together - although there was on issue with the nut that sits around the top of the shock - I had to grind a bit off it to get the bushing to fit on the top of the shock. (I may have also done the Wrong Thing ™.
http://www.ground-control.com/
I have the Yellow Koni's with the coilover and adjustable perches on the rear. It is very easy to put together - although there was on issue with the nut that sits around the top of the shock - I had to grind a bit off it to get the bushing to fit on the top of the shock. (I may have also done the Wrong Thing ™.
Im looking into buying this right now, but am worried that my Koni Adjustables (RED) arent going to work... Dont have a part number right this moment, but i can adjust the spring height from the bottom (3 grooves to choose from). I have heard they they dont work with every koni...
Any advice?
Any advice?
How far is your bottom spring clip groove from the bottom of the shock (far end of the ring that get's bolted to the trailing arm??
How far is there between the grooves?
The perches have quite a range of adjustability, so I'd be suprised if it couldn't be made to work.
I'll go measure mine when I can find the tape measure :-)
Fiid.
How far is there between the grooves?
The perches have quite a range of adjustability, so I'd be suprised if it couldn't be made to work.
I'll go measure mine when I can find the tape measure :-)
Fiid.
I am adjusted as low as they will allow at the moment, thus the need to change to the threaded perches. Thanks for doing some research on the measurements, thats great! Think that to really get the full range the threaded set up is the way to go.
Talked to the Ground Control guys, they said it wont work on the 82k1722 koni reds. Something about them being to wide to fit the collar. So.... will have to see what part number i have!
Talked to the Ground Control guys, they said it wont work on the 82k1722 koni reds. Something about them being to wide to fit the collar. So.... will have to see what part number i have!
Correct. They will not fit the red Koni's. The grooves for the clips are something like 12mm apart (that might be the Bilstein) If you want adjustability.. the threaded collar setup is the only way to fly. Even factory 964's/993's come with threaded collar setups and allow for some adjustment.
B
B
Thanks for the confirmation on that Brad. Now of course that means that i will have to go yellows all around? I have 911 suspension up front with Boge struts and of course the adjustable reds...
What should i expect to shell out for this stuff? Im getting a total number for the rear alone of about 500 with doing the installation myself.
ALSO - im not trying to hijack the thread! What about threaded custom stuff like bilstein makes? Not sure that 800 would cover some of the more advanced setups.... Torsion bars are gonna run you around 300 alone for the hollow stuff.
What should i expect to shell out for this stuff? Im getting a total number for the rear alone of about 500 with doing the installation myself.
ALSO - im not trying to hijack the thread! What about threaded custom stuff like bilstein makes? Not sure that 800 would cover some of the more advanced setups.... Torsion bars are gonna run you around 300 alone for the hollow stuff.
1973914,
do you really want/need the expense of a front coil over?
you can go coil over on the rear and leave your front the way it is.. (or leave it for now and upgrade later)..
front coil overs have some trade offs... they are good if you run a different spring at every track you go to, but not necessary for a street car.....
brant
do you really want/need the expense of a front coil over?
you can go coil over on the rear and leave your front the way it is.. (or leave it for now and upgrade later)..
front coil overs have some trade offs... they are good if you run a different spring at every track you go to, but not necessary for a street car.....
brant
Brant,
My car is full track now, but i do not want to go coil over on the front just yet. Boge Struts and adjustables are swell for now!
My main concern is that the yellow sport valving in the rear and red konis up front will be a significant mismatch. Headed to Watkins Glen July 4th and dont want so much room underneath....
Bill
My car is full track now, but i do not want to go coil over on the front just yet. Boge Struts and adjustables are swell for now!
My main concern is that the yellow sport valving in the rear and red konis up front will be a significant mismatch. Headed to Watkins Glen July 4th and dont want so much room underneath....
Bill
crap.. I don't know if its a problem or not.
I would lead towards No... but could well be wrong..
let brad or someone pipe in...
but even if it is a mismatch, it all depends upon how your suspension is working and reacting now.. If your front end is already great.. then I would think it would be fine.....
If you want to lower the car, do so.. then realign the front and use the shocks you've got..
but what do I know.....
brant
I would lead towards No... but could well be wrong..
let brad or someone pipe in...
but even if it is a mismatch, it all depends upon how your suspension is working and reacting now.. If your front end is already great.. then I would think it would be fine.....
If you want to lower the car, do so.. then realign the front and use the shocks you've got..
but what do I know.....
brant
First of all, nice avatar Brant 
i get a chuckle every time i see it.
Yeah the front is "ok" right now, and i do need to look into something better than spacing the rack (like a bump steer kit for example). Definitely looking like a 914 Cayenne at the moment compared to some of my fellow 914 track junkies, and with the rear lighter (fiberglass everything and the trunk cut out to boot) my CG is pretty bad. Im hoping that i can at least "get away" with the front reds and rear yellows with threaded perches for the DE in WG...
i get a chuckle every time i see it.Yeah the front is "ok" right now, and i do need to look into something better than spacing the rack (like a bump steer kit for example). Definitely looking like a 914 Cayenne at the moment compared to some of my fellow 914 track junkies, and with the rear lighter (fiberglass everything and the trunk cut out to boot) my CG is pretty bad. Im hoping that i can at least "get away" with the front reds and rear yellows with threaded perches for the DE in WG...
I would definitely... definitely think you can get a way with it...
worst case senario, the car is a fraction less balanced, but this is pretty fine tuning and many other factors make a greater difference.....
thats a nice looking car.
b
worst case senario, the car is a fraction less balanced, but this is pretty fine tuning and many other factors make a greater difference.....
thats a nice looking car.
b
What kind of dampening adjustability do the koni yellows have? (how many settings)
I might have missed it but does anyone sell a full coil over setup? (no sleeves, threaded shock body) I know h&r has some for every other porsche. (they are really expensive anyway).
Can I use a set made for a 911?
I realize 800 is a low figure for what I am asking - I will adjust it as necessary.
So far I am leaning toward the koni yellows setup.
Thanks for the replies. No worries on hijacking the thread - I just thought it would be great to have a thread discussing all of the different suspension options. One that might have been turned in to an FAQ or ay least a sticky.
I might have missed it but does anyone sell a full coil over setup? (no sleeves, threaded shock body) I know h&r has some for every other porsche. (they are really expensive anyway).
Can I use a set made for a 911?
I realize 800 is a low figure for what I am asking - I will adjust it as necessary.
So far I am leaning toward the koni yellows setup.
Thanks for the replies. No worries on hijacking the thread - I just thought it would be great to have a thread discussing all of the different suspension options. One that might have been turned in to an FAQ or ay least a sticky.
Yes, you can use the 911 RSR style struts...Kanna(??) makes 'em so does SmartRacing (sweet stuff and my choice if I was to spend that kind of money !!!!)
Figure about $800(minimum) per side on the front and half that amount for the rear.
For the front, you "have" to re-enforce the front shock tower, it was not designed for the loads and forces of a coil-over from the factory.
You can adjust the stock 914 suspension pretty easy, just turn the screw/bolt for the torsion bar.
How often do you plan on adjusting the height of your car? All those "coil-over" kits they sell for the rice cars are just for bragging rights. I've got H&R sport coil-overs on my 911, never touched them in the two years I've owned the car.
The number of "clicks" also, is useless if you don't know what the rating of the shocks are.....this falls into the "dude, my shocks have 25 different settings", yea, all of them could be wrong for your car or particular setup (spring rates)
Koni
What I'd like to know is the shock dyno numbers of the Koni shock at thier lowest setting and at the highest setting. I'm sure Koni has them, whether or not they share them is another story
Figure about $800(minimum) per side on the front and half that amount for the rear.
For the front, you "have" to re-enforce the front shock tower, it was not designed for the loads and forces of a coil-over from the factory.
You can adjust the stock 914 suspension pretty easy, just turn the screw/bolt for the torsion bar.
How often do you plan on adjusting the height of your car? All those "coil-over" kits they sell for the rice cars are just for bragging rights. I've got H&R sport coil-overs on my 911, never touched them in the two years I've owned the car.
The number of "clicks" also, is useless if you don't know what the rating of the shocks are.....this falls into the "dude, my shocks have 25 different settings", yea, all of them could be wrong for your car or particular setup (spring rates)
Koni
What I'd like to know is the shock dyno numbers of the Koni shock at thier lowest setting and at the highest setting. I'm sure Koni has them, whether or not they share them is another story
Call Blake down at OPM in GA and get him to hook you up with some Carrera stuff. I am running Carrera rear shocks and they are fully threaded aluminum shocks. I like them. I will probably run the Carrera front struts also when I shorten a set of housings. I like the Carrera stuff, well made and easy to get parts for.
yeah corpselaurel,
there are threaded shock bodies out there..
I have carrera threaded shock bodies on my rear...
Figure a lot more than 800 though for a full system.
I think I've got about 3k into my suspension and I'm going to have used front torsion bars in it....
most race classes do not allow a front coil over unless you want to jump up to the big boys (not even an option for a vintage class around here)..
Like mueller said.. there are a lot of things you could do first that would give you an actual return on your investment... before you go to a full 4wheel coil over and gain bragging rights... Drivers school comes to mind and would give about 10x the performance improvement...
brant
there are threaded shock bodies out there..
I have carrera threaded shock bodies on my rear...
Figure a lot more than 800 though for a full system.
I think I've got about 3k into my suspension and I'm going to have used front torsion bars in it....
most race classes do not allow a front coil over unless you want to jump up to the big boys (not even an option for a vintage class around here)..
Like mueller said.. there are a lot of things you could do first that would give you an actual return on your investment... before you go to a full 4wheel coil over and gain bragging rights... Drivers school comes to mind and would give about 10x the performance improvement...
brant
I am running the exact set-up Brad recommends.
It is an excellant upgrade from stock.
Koni yellow's have an infinite adjustabilty on dampening. Full firm to full soft and anything in between.
I'm using the Eibach 150# rear springs. It was very easy for Brad to lower the car exactly where I like like it, balanced perfectly with my weight in the seat.
Along with the new tires this set-up is hard to beat.
Thanks go out to Brad!
Front and rear sway bars next.
It is an excellant upgrade from stock.
Koni yellow's have an infinite adjustabilty on dampening. Full firm to full soft and anything in between.
I'm using the Eibach 150# rear springs. It was very easy for Brad to lower the car exactly where I like like it, balanced perfectly with my weight in the seat.
Along with the new tires this set-up is hard to beat.
Thanks go out to Brad!
Front and rear sway bars next.
I have all but made the phone call with CC in hand for the koni setup - but whats the skinny on the rear carrera setup? Is this a bolt-on solution or are mods required? Any pictures available for this?
thanks!
thanks!
it is all bolt on using the Carrera hardware
QUOTE(Mueller @ May 29 2004, 04:44 PM)
Yes, you can use the 911 RSR style struts...Kanna(??) makes 'em so does SmartRacing (sweet stuff and my choice if I was to spend that kind of money !!!!)
Figure about $800(minimum) per side on the front and half that amount for the rear.
For the front, you "have" to re-enforce the front shock tower, it was not designed for the loads and forces of a coil-over from the factory.
You can adjust the stock 914 suspension pretty easy, just turn the screw/bolt for the torsion bar.
How often do you plan on adjusting the height of your car? All those "coil-over" kits they sell for the rice cars are just for bragging rights. I've got H&R sport coil-overs on my 911, never touched them in the two years I've owned the car.
The number of "clicks" also, is useless if you don't know what the rating of the shocks are.....this falls into the "dude, my shocks have 25 different settings", yea, all of them could be wrong for your car or particular setup (spring rates)
Koni
What I'd like to know is the shock dyno numbers of the Koni shock at thier lowest setting and at the highest setting. I'm sure Koni has them, whether or not they share them is another story
Figure about $800(minimum) per side on the front and half that amount for the rear.
For the front, you "have" to re-enforce the front shock tower, it was not designed for the loads and forces of a coil-over from the factory.
You can adjust the stock 914 suspension pretty easy, just turn the screw/bolt for the torsion bar.
How often do you plan on adjusting the height of your car? All those "coil-over" kits they sell for the rice cars are just for bragging rights. I've got H&R sport coil-overs on my 911, never touched them in the two years I've owned the car.
The number of "clicks" also, is useless if you don't know what the rating of the shocks are.....this falls into the "dude, my shocks have 25 different settings", yea, all of them could be wrong for your car or particular setup (spring rates)
Koni
What I'd like to know is the shock dyno numbers of the Koni shock at thier lowest setting and at the highest setting. I'm sure Koni has them, whether or not they share them is another story
What type of reenforcing to the front shock tower are we talking about? I have some rust that I will be fixing and would want to get all the welding out of the way at the same time.
Any more info on it?
Also brett, what years carrera will work?
in this case Carrera is a shock manufacturer...
QUOTE(TimT @ Jun 1 2004, 05:11 PM)
in this case Carrera is a shock manufacturer...
lol woops
Anyone know what type of reinforcing is nessecary? What have you guys with coil-overs done?
Dear god! You have got me rethinking my whole project.
is it http://www.smartracingproducts.com/ ?
I can't seem to find it on their site.
Is it nec. for the front and back?
is it http://www.smartracingproducts.com/ ?
I can't seem to find it on their site.
Is it nec. for the front and back?
not necessary for the rear, already a coilover there.
You only need to beef up the front, see Brads reply for the rear, depending on the shocks you have or want, it's pretty much 100% bolt-on (rear)
For the front stuff:
Camber Box and plate, go down to about the middle of the page.
For the front stuff:
Camber Box and plate, go down to about the middle of the page.
The site doesn't really mention reinforcment. It just says "Once installed, they are very strong and allow for ample camber and caster adjusting."
Seems like it is more for adjustibility than strength. Not to mention they say that they are for a 911. (I know they will work with the 914, I am just unsure about the reinforcing that is needed.)
Anyone run coil overs with out reinforcing? What about a high spring rate on stiff shocks?
Seems like it is more for adjustibility than strength. Not to mention they say that they are for a 911. (I know they will work with the 914, I am just unsure about the reinforcing that is needed.)
Anyone run coil overs with out reinforcing? What about a high spring rate on stiff shocks?
QUOTE(Mueller @ Jun 3 2004, 12:26 PM)
The parts can be bought from SmartRacing, it is not for your average person.
Cool! I'm below average, so I qualify, right? Right?
-Ben M.
Hey Brad Roberts
Have you ever gotten those 150# Eibach Reas in yet?? If so I would like to get a set.
Lou Smaldino
P.S. I tried to send you a private message and kept getting an error response.
Have you ever gotten those 150# Eibach Reas in yet?? If so I would like to get a set.
Lou Smaldino
P.S. I tried to send you a private message and kept getting an error response.
corpselaurel ,
people have tried front coil overs without reinforcing..
sure it works for a while...
do you really want to loose control of your car when it breaks.. perhaps in a corner.. perhaps at 100mph...
not something to risk or mess around with really...
The higher the spring rate the sooner this will be a problem..
The factory design has the torsion bar act as the spring.. thus the weight of the vehicle and more than the static weight, but the increased force of hitting bumps etceterra is supported in a bar that mounts horizontally. The the Frame (if you will) of a 911 or 914 is strengthened to hold the whole weight of the car in this area below the front trunk...
so if you convert to a coil over, now you are asking the upright metal area of the front suspension to hold 2k+ when it was designed to originally only keep the shock in place...... it was not designed to hold 2000 lbs..... the top mount area will eventually pop loose... not a good thing to happen....
Torsion bars have some pretty damn good strengths going for them too.... They carry the weight of the suspension as sprung weight and not unsprung like a coil over partially does....
The weight of a torsion bar is lower..
etc...
etc...
A coil over is easier to change.. thats about it really...
the suspension joints are the same (or can be wildly modified) in either case. If your not changing springs for every different track that you visit.. then I would highly recommend against a coil over set up as the money could be better spent on purchasing seat time...
Sorry for the rant.. its been a crappy day...
b
people have tried front coil overs without reinforcing..
sure it works for a while...
do you really want to loose control of your car when it breaks.. perhaps in a corner.. perhaps at 100mph...
not something to risk or mess around with really...
The higher the spring rate the sooner this will be a problem..
The factory design has the torsion bar act as the spring.. thus the weight of the vehicle and more than the static weight, but the increased force of hitting bumps etceterra is supported in a bar that mounts horizontally. The the Frame (if you will) of a 911 or 914 is strengthened to hold the whole weight of the car in this area below the front trunk...
so if you convert to a coil over, now you are asking the upright metal area of the front suspension to hold 2k+ when it was designed to originally only keep the shock in place...... it was not designed to hold 2000 lbs..... the top mount area will eventually pop loose... not a good thing to happen....
Torsion bars have some pretty damn good strengths going for them too.... They carry the weight of the suspension as sprung weight and not unsprung like a coil over partially does....
The weight of a torsion bar is lower..
etc...
etc...
A coil over is easier to change.. thats about it really...
the suspension joints are the same (or can be wildly modified) in either case. If your not changing springs for every different track that you visit.. then I would highly recommend against a coil over set up as the money could be better spent on purchasing seat time...
Sorry for the rant.. its been a crappy day...
b
brant, thanks a lot - you really cleared things up for me
What would be the best way to reduce the ride height in the front?
QUOTE
What would be the best way to reduce the ride height in the front?
how low do you want to go?
at extremely lowered ride heights, you may need raised spindles, and shortened strut housings and shocks..
I have a RSR front suspension, and the shock ran out of travel at the ride height that I thought worked.. so I raised the ride height 1/2" to prevent bottoming..
I plan on having the struts and shocks modified soon..
fwiw I have #450 front springs, #350 rears....Im not to worried about the front of the car beaking..the front is quite robust... with the full depth front bulkhead etc..
this is down from the "super speedway" combo I used to have
there are torsion bar adjusters on each of the front a arms, screw one way car goes up, the other way car does down.
I believe that's all there is, others will chime in I'm sure.
I believe that's all there is, others will chime in I'm sure.
QUOTE(TimT @ Jun 4 2004, 04:25 PM)
QUOTE
What would be the best way to reduce the ride height in the front?
how low do you want to go?
at extremely lowered ride heights, you may need raised spindles, and shortened strut housings and shocks..
I have a RSR front suspension, and the shock ran out of travel at the ride height that I thought worked.. so I raised the ride height 1/2" to prevent bottoming..
I plan on having the struts and shocks modified soon..
fwiw I have #450 front springs, #350 rears....Im not to worried about the front of the car beaking..the front is quite robust... with the full depth front bulkhead etc..
this is down from the "super speedway" combo I used to have
I don't know exactly how low, I will need to see when I get my wheels etc. I want the control arms to sit parallel.
I was going to go with 400# front 300# rear.
Sorry for being such a noob, but could you elaborate on your setup? Any reinforcing? Do you have a link to the rsr stuff? I am searching right now.
BTW I found a link on how to lower the front.
QUOTE
there are torsion bar adjusters on each of the front a arms
correctamundo..
sowwie should have answered the question before
but my post was regarding degrees of lowness LOL
timt, I think you might have missed my other post:
I don't know exactly how low, I will need to see when I get my wheels etc. I want the control arms to sit parallel.
I was going to go with 400# front 300# rear.
Sorry for being such a noob, but could you elaborate on your setup? Any reinforcing? Do you have a link to the rsr stuff? I am searching right now.
BTW I found a link on how to lower the front.
I don't know exactly how low, I will need to see when I get my wheels etc. I want the control arms to sit parallel.
I was going to go with 400# front 300# rear.
Sorry for being such a noob, but could you elaborate on your setup? Any reinforcing? Do you have a link to the rsr stuff? I am searching right now.
BTW I found a link on how to lower the front.
QUOTE
I don't know exactly how low, I will need to see when I get my wheels etc. I want the control arms to sit parallel.
if that is the case, you might want to consider moving the spindles up on the strut.....most cost effective method is to have Chris Foley of Tangerine Racing modify a set for you.......after that the price doubles and triples for what your options are......
timt, how long have you been running like that? (with out any reinforcement)
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