Down at AAS yesterday.

All the modified cars had huge spoilers. I thought 8" was the limit, but it looked more like a foot.

Got to figure out what is legal and get one of those puppies on 222.

10 iches high is max. RTFB for more details.....there ARE details.

Randal-How did you do -underspoilered and all........ JJackson

Wow-you get 10" from highest point of rear deck and sides-pay close attention to the sides!JJackson

Right and I have to check whether or not there is a restriction on the number square feet or angle of the spoiler. Man you could put a lot of surface area back there as long as you don't exceed the 10" rule, right?

Here is the rule:

2. It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rear portion
of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler may extend no
more than 10 inches from the original bodywork in any direction.
Alternatively in a hatchback, the spoiler may be mounted to the
rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch in such a confi guration
the spoiler may extend not more than 7.5 inches form the original
bodywork in any direction. The spoiler may be no wider that the
bodywork. The use of endplates is prohibited. Spoiler endplates
are defi ned as any vertical (or semi-vertical) surfaces attached in
front of the spoiler which have the result of capturing and redistributing
air (downforce) along all or any portion of the spoiler. The
angle of attack is free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.

Randal-How did you do -underspoilered and all........ JJackson
[/quote]
Wow-you get 10" from highest point of rear deck and sides-pay close attention to the sides!JJackson
[/quote]


Right and I have to check whether or not there is a restriction on the number square feet or angle of the spoiler. Man you could put a lot of surface area back there as long as you don't exceed the 10" rule, right?

Here is the rule:

2. It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rear portion
of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler may extend no
more than 10 inches from the original bodywork in any direction.
Alternatively in a hatchback, the spoiler may be mounted to the
rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch in such a confi guration
the spoiler may extend not more than 7.5 inches form the original
bodywork in any direction. The spoiler may be no wider that the
bodywork. The use of endplates is prohibited. Spoiler endplates
are defi ned as any vertical (or semi-vertical) surfaces attached in
front of the spoiler which have the result of capturing and redistributing
air (downforce) along all or any portion of the spoiler. The
angle of attack is free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.
[/quote]
Randal-EMOD current rulebook (Did not check fastrack)Read again-Endplates allowed-100SQ Inch each on 10" spoiler.JJackson

Love to see pictures of yours Jay

Details, details....this ain't Prepared class.
From section 18.1

Rear spoilers
a. If a rear spoiler is used, it shall be mounted to the rear hatch,
deck, or trunk lid, and mount no further forward than the base
of the rear window. *The spoiler extension for the entire spoiler
is set by one measurement at the lateral midpoint of the car.
At that point, the spoiler may not extend more than 10” from
the attachment point out to the outer or free edge. This sets
the maximum height above ground at all other locations on the
spoiler. The result may be a flat topped rather than contoured
spoiler.* Alternatively, the spoiler may be mounted at the rear
of the roof, or to the rear hatch lid at or near the top of the
hatch; in such a configuration the spoiler may extend no more
than 7.5” from the original bodywork, measured as described
above. The spoiler angle of attack is free. The rear spoiler is
measured from leading, attached edge to trailing or outermost,
free edge. Its measurement is independent of its angle of attack.
b. *The spoiler may not be wider than the rear bodywork, measured
as the maximum distance between the outside edges of
the wheel well openings or fender flares at axle height.*


Read it carefully then picture in your mind that E Mod Sprite's spoiler.
The *s are mine.

7. The use of front and rear spoiler endplates is allowed. Endplate
area shall not exceed spoiler height squared. A roof spoiler up to
the maximum of 7.5” is allowed an area of up to 16 square inches
for each endplate; a trunk spoiler up to the maximum of 10” is
allowed up to 100 square inches for each endplate. Side plates
do not have to be square or rectangular; the side profile shape is
open. If end plates are to be used with the front spoiler/air dam/
splitter assembly, a maximum area of 36 square inches per end
plate is allowed.

Mine is boring-not allowed end plates in FP-Will post pix soon.JP is posting current correct listings for EMOD-BTW Randal get that front splitter out there-You're allowed 6 inches out and end plates.We increased our bumper profile for more splitter.100 sq inch end plates on rear-thats substantial and necessary-I did not go back and read the size endplates for front.JJackson

Damn-there it is.JJackson

Pretty interesting rear spoiler. Man that puppy is huge.

I don't see any endplates in front.


Click to view attachment

He must have read the rule that JP just posted. Check out, what I think, is the new rear endplates:

Click to view attachment


Looks like he is following the 100 square inch option on those end plates.

Dude, he wrote the rules.

One that that I could do before Medford is just mount a big plastic spoiler to my existing reinforced spoiler with the mounting system in place.

End plates could be epoxied. Ummmm.

Probably the angle of attack would be to high.

I read some where/some time that a 65 degree AOA was the cat's ass for a spoiler.

Read the same thing-Looked , but could not find article-We run ours at 66.Have spliiter test article though. Racecar engineering December 2009-Vol 19 No 12 has test info on splitters.JJackson

What did you find in that article?

This is pretty interesting.

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performanc...eff-kiesel.html

If you chase that car-you will get fast.Good Luck-Currently the most impressive autox car with fenders-JJackson

That article tested downforce on an old mini cooper hill climb car.Using various size splitters and at different wind tunnel speeds (not alot of data-they did not test as much as I wish)The tests conclusively added downforce in even the smallest splitters (30 MM test) and showed 80 lbs of downforce on and 80mm splitter at 80 miles per hour.There tests showed that if your rules allowed-you have to run as much splitter as the rules allowed-that you could still balance cars handling
All that being said,hypothetically of course-if you had an autox car that weighed 435 lbs per front corner-and at maybe 70 (typical national level speeds in FP) the car weighed 70 ish lbs in front-so now front end has an increase of 35 lbs-so your 470 in front??maybe????
splitter weighs 5
76 bumper,mounts,frame-13
Noticed that you want car planted at 30MPH but for really fast times-it neeeeds to be planted at 70.All hypothetical of course.JJackson

[quote name='jjackson' date='May 23 2011, 09:04 PM' post='1482613']
[quote name='PeeGreen 914' post='1482314' date='May 23 2011, 12:13 PM']
What did you find in that article?

Noticed that you want car planted at 30MPH but for really fast times-it neeeeds to be planted at 70.All hypothetical of course.JJackson
[/quote]


Nows a good time to mention that spoilers usually fit on a trailer easily-splitters require more thought.JJackson

I know some use big ol airdams with splitters but why not just use an LE style with a splitter? Is it better if it is lower? I know the idea is to keep air out from the underside but wouldn't the benefit of the splitter be more beneficial? That way it would still be able to handle more roads, driveways, trailers...

FWIW I made my front spoiler/dam removable for trailering, which is easy to do. I have 3 different ones. The smallest is an LE-type and the largest is a Sheridan.


914 Front spoilers by cjcam, on Flickr

Good looking front spoilers.We extended ramps on trailer out to 12' and still had to use cheater board on end.
Always tired at end of event-just want to pull on trailer.
Our new splitter (looks high) is 3 inches off ground 28 inches in front of tire.
Our latest was piece from AIR(have to look for it) large squared off piece-we cut the lip off of it.Very well made -heavier piece than I've experienced with other air dams.
Will take pix soon.JJackson

Air pushes down on splitter front and also creates negative air space under at backside-the further back you go the better.Test in mag did not adjust heights (from ground) of splitters.
We went as low as we could-still being able to load-ramp extensions cost me 350.
More than we had in the whole splitter,air dam, and hardware.Could have done it with boards but sometimes already look like the Clampetts. JJackson

I have broken my splitter more times than I'd care to mention when loading the car back on to the trailer at the end of events. Crunch....

Only thing that will solve it is a brain transplant.

I was thinking of taking a sheet of steel, taking it back to the belly pan, and attaching the struts of the splitter to the body of the car while the car rather than the airdam.

Thoughts?

I was thinking of taking a sheet of steel, taking it back to the belly pan, and attaching the struts of the splitter to the body of the car while the car rather than the airdam.

Thoughts?
[/quote]
Ran bolts through original mount points of air dam-ran nut down secure-second nut at back to turnbuckles.Also attached using L brackets at back side of air dam.Was going to run bolt and spacer through splitter to bottom of front trunk-Have not done last one-so far it has withstood some good impacts with no problem.This air dam that I mentioned earlier is heavier made than any I've seen.Broken every air dam I've ever run until this one.Since I just typed that, I think I will add the additional supports.We are currently running "alucobond" panel for splitter-aluminum with resin sandwich-about 1 lb per sq foot-Car really liked that weight there.I'll try to get pix this pm.JJackson

I wrecked once pulling into enclosed trailer-Very violent and confined.Kept me from playing golf for 6 weeks.Hammer fixed wheel-pride took a while-therapist says I can talk about it now.JJackson

Be sure to consider venues you plan to run with front spliter design. It was tragic at San Diego to see beautiful cars with spliters cracked, you could hear them scraping all over the place there.

I like the invisble spoiler on the Austin Healy.

Good point. Bumpy/irregular venues are the exact reason I keep all 3 of those spoilers above. I don't use the deepest one if there are cones or large bumps/dips on the course. The LE one was for street use originally but my car isn't really streetable anymore...

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=260
885


Pix of our setup.Took me a while to get resized.JJackson

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=260
893]
Forgive for pix in trailer.

Missed one.JJackson

Nice front and rear splitter / spoiler. That rear spoiler is big!

And it's great that you can load the car on the trailer without taking off the front splitter.

I've got to find someone with one of those long contour bars so that I can get the bottom bit right when I do mine.

Given that your using plastic, I guess you could glue on end plates or just bolt them on if you wanted.

End plates keeping the air on the spoiler surface have got to be helpful.

Wow Jay, that looks very cool

Hey, so it can look cool AND be functional

Thanks-you should have seen the faces on the guys at the shop when I told them I was looking for late model bumper for the race car.No exhaust pointed up comments?
Been guilty to the sound gods often-Pointed end away from meter to run-Last event was Pro Solo-couldn't figure out which way to point-Up is 4 db quieter.
Thinking about a Real John Deere flapper.
JJackson

Can you give me details on the swirl fuel tank you got up there in the front? Do you have a smaller pump in the tank?

-Britain

Here is my rear spoiler with endplates:



Here is an old picture of my old front splitter set-up, I don't have a good picture of the new set-up:




_Britain

Its just a vented catch tank-At less than five gallons in a 10 gallon cell-we were still sloshing fuel out of tank and starving for fuel in extreme grip situations.Tried different amounts of foam and changed lean on tank-still had problem.Not using two pumps-just using 944 pump -low-even with sump portion of fuel cell-return line is at drivers side front-vent at passenger front-feed middle back.Wish we were allowed endplates.Yours look great.JJackson
BTW-Catch tank has to be drained daily (qt) and we still are running less than 5 in tank.

Wow thats nice! What class you running?

Thats the "Decent" FP car.JJackson

What motor are you running in the FP car JJ?

First overbore on 2.4L-Twin plugged,fuel injected-small motor 1900 lb car-13 to 1-got a real nice crackle.JJackson

That sounds purty My orange car was on track to be made into something similar. Damn real estate market

Oh well, GO GREEN

So a twin plugged 6, right?

I mean 4's don't have a "nice crackle" do they?

They do...at least for a while, if you feed some cracklejuice to em'.

I wish we had more flexibility with the Boxster motors in FP. They offer the 914 all sorts of options. I cant remeber a 2.5 or a 2.7 ever being offered in a 914 LOL! So you get all the flexibility in the world to build a 2.5? As long as its a 2.5? Thats cool but us Boxster guys have to stick with stock block, bore and stroke configs from the Boxster and Cayman from my understanding. So 914's actually get a nice benefit in FP.

Because if there was a loop hole I would love to destroke a 3.2 Boxster S down to 2.9, lighten up the crank, rods pistons, etc and create a high reving M96 screamer. I guess since they added Cayman to same line we can use newer 2.7 M96 block and maybe get the 3.4 heads from a 987 to make a franken motor. A 2.7 with Cayman heads might be the motor. Unfortunately the 2.5 block is pretty limited - I think I can bolt 2.7 heads on that block which whould give the motor a better cam.

My approach is similar to yours. Try to keep the car as light as possible as I think thats the advantage with current FP crowd. Especially with the AWD turbos. You will never beat them being heavier. Even the BMW and Datsun run a little heavy too.

I do not know who wrote all of the letters to get us this flexibility,
but I'm thankful.Were still limited to early case.I am not aware of any true racecar that is not running as light as it can within rules, but we have questioned the idea for autocross based on our need to generate heat in our tires so quickly.We still are a single driver car in a two driver world.Don't know when-but it looks like the AWD turbos are going to be restricted to 36MM soon.That will get HP #s in line.So far JT's talent has been able to overcome all.JJackson

All production cars have shortcomings. All production cars do not suit themselves to a given Prepared/Mod class. The Boxster is no exception to that rule, IMO. The motor is shit. That could be overcome with an engine bay transfusion but it couldn't be in FP. It is a decent platform....maybe even very good, but nobody has stepped up with the TM&E to prove it in Prepared or Mod. Strelnieks
Is one of the premier AX drivers in the land. If he can't make a winner out of it......

Putting money into an M96 is worse than putting lipstick on a pig....at least you an eat the bacon from a pig whereas the M96 will eat itself.

Definitely 6-Different sound.Love stout 4's but we broke lots of stuff trying.We always tried to run too much RPM.That hind sight crap.Used to shift the car a whole lot more than our competition-with light components-increased risk of mistakes and lost traction.JJackson