I need to purchase a radiator for my SBC conversion and am in need of some suggestions/part numbers. JEGS? Also, will need a over flow canister and hoses.

Budget?

You could build a radiator system from $150 to $2000...

Tight budget. This will be a fun occasional Sunday drive car.

from s10 v8 conversions they're using a stock late 80 corvette unit, the dimensions are right. http://www.s10v8.com/store/product.php?pro...t=32&page=2

The only real semi-bolt-in system that I know of is the one offered by Rennegade; but you'll pay $$. If you want to do some fabrication and fit-up, then you can save some money by piecing things together yourself.

Andys

My favorite C&R Radiator comes in a 14x27.5" double pass closed system.
Another good radiator is theAfco 80133n this is listed in Summit racings catalog at about $100 less than the C&R and is 2" taller and takes up more trunk space
Another tip is to use the Fans from a 1998 to 2004 Dodge Intrepid these will fit a 14x27.5 radiator with a little work. They are easy to fine in the pick and pulls and cost about $15 for the complete unit.
One of the fan motors has a 2 speed winding and can run at a slower speed.

Bob

I purchased a radiator ($150)and fans ($40) similar to these on Ebay.

I have more pictures of how I mounted everything if you'd like.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-ALUMINU...1#ht_4173wt_951

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-x-Univers...#ht_6353wt_1139

Click to view attachment

Joe,

Thats a nice looking setup!

Nice sheet metal fabrication.


If your on a "cheap as free" budget, pick up a used radiator and fan from like a Lincoln Mark Viii, and keep an eye on dumpsters at commercial/home A/C shops as They typically have 22guage metal scraps that they just toss.

Bob,

Pick and pull in my area would charge $45 for a dual fan assembly.

This set up is more in line with my budget. More pics would be great. Does your set up keep things cool? It looks like you mounted it pretty much vertical.

Here are a couple more pics...

The radiator is floating, not bolted directly to the frame as I've heard that bolting directly to the frame can cause the radiator to crack as there is a lot of expansion when hot...

It sits on rubber mounts on the bottom and bolted on through rubber grommets along the top edge.

And yes, it works great and everything stays cool!!!

Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Fluidyne built one custom to my specs using the Pantera Core for $500.

$18 here and $3 dollars more gets you a 1 year warrenty. If it quits just take it back a get another set.

Subaru transaxles are $60

In my setup I went with a Giffin radiator, model 125241-H... no radiator cap. The dimensions are 16"x 27.5" x 3". It's installed to float in its mounts versus mounted rigidly.

I also used one of the most powerful fans ever put in a production vehicle (Google it)... an early to mid-ninties Ford Taurus/Sable fan. I think the only one more powerful (and larger) is out of a Mark VIII. Local junk yard for $20.00. Note that fan shroud covers about 90% of radiator surface... perfect! Then of course, you need to get the controller, mine is an adjustable unit.

So far so good!!

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

California pick n pull rapes people. This I know... They find any way to jack up the price and wont cut the price if its broken.
Check out pricing for 95350..

Prices are stupid expensive. I have spent 2 hours picking the part I need after checking the pricing online before hand, and I arrive at the checkout and they tell me the price is double (almost as much as a new part) what is listed. I have left so many parts at the counter after telling them i'll pay the price on the web site and them refusing.

It's all relative.
When I needed a pair of fan motors for my Audi A6 I was happy to pay the $43.98 at Pick -N- Pull for a complete fan assemble (both fans and shroud) since the best price I could find was $139 each for fan motors if I ordered online, $169 each if I ordered thru local parts dealer (not a flaps).
While I was out there I found a pair of stock leather power seats in the exact color as my S4 and picked those up for $42.99 each.
So I save a good $230 on the fans and where can you get leather Recaro seats for $43 each, yes the stock seats in the are made by Recaro.
Would I have prefered to pay less? Sure, I always want to pay less and PnP will screw you if they can.

Jim

This is a nice clean set up and I would be inclined to go with 1 fan rather then two as long as it keeps things cool. So you have a remote filler for the radiator? Also, those look like 2-3" hoses going through the floor. Are you running hoses that large of a diameter under the car?

Thanks for the pics. Nice frame. I might go this route and make one out of aluminum square tube. Great idea to have it floating on rubber mounts. And I like this radiator. Is there plenty of room for the filler? When you purchase fans as you suggested do they come with some sort of controller? How is it wired? Thanks

Pete,

You wire them yourself, Typically on a switch or on a controller that is connected with the water temp sender (aka it activates at a certain temp). For getting around town you could just put it on a toggle switch and turn it on when it reaches temp (thats what I do).

Also he is probably running the standard size hoses under the car, the big hoses at the radiator are because they are preformed to be able to make the angles required in the confined space, then you would run a reducer.


The fill for the radiator will be in the engine compartment, This is because the radiator is lower than the engine and the fill needs to be the highest point to allow the air not to get trapped in the system. Best to run something inline that has a long neck or something so that you have room for air. See the modern radiator fills, they have a big box that has a level on it, water flows through that box in line and because there is a bunch of extra water in it it never gets air in the lines and it constantly is purging air.

Andrew nailed it....

I used a Derale adjustable fan controller with a threaded temp sender instead of the probe type that pushes into the radiator.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-16749/

I used an adapter similar to the one below for the sender unit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/32mm-1-1-4i...#ht_3609wt_1253

The filler and catch can are in the engine compartment.

The hoses were adapted/reduced to 1" id green stripe hardwall and run under the car.
Click to view attachment

I'd be concerned using those reducers that have no bead. Hose is in danger of slipping off.

Andys

Good thing about those copper tubes is you can easily add a bead to them. Thats what I use and soldered a bead to it. Also I scored the tubing with a sharp knife and use 2 clamps.

That's exactly what I did before installing them!!!

Griffin double pass 9D-10682-01

Hi, I tried finding this part number. No luck.

That's an awesome looking car by the way. Do you have more pics of it you can share?

I used the AFCO 80133N which is available from Summit, though it's now $45 more than what I paid a few years ago. It's a double pass and has no cap; it was orignally for ASA cars.

Andys

In my setup I went with a Giffin radiator, model 125241-H... no radiator cap. The dimensions are 16"x 27.5" x 3". It's installed to float in its mounts versus mounted rigidly.

I also used one of the most powerful fans ever put in a production vehicle (Google it)... an early to mid-ninties Ford Taurus/Sable fan. I think the only one more powerful (and larger) is out of a Mark VIII. Local junk yard for $20.00. Note that fan shroud covers about 90% of radiator surface... perfect! Then of course, you need to get the controller, mine is an adjustable unit.

So far so good!!

[/quote]

This is a nice clean set up and I would be inclined to go with 1 fan rather then two as long as it keeps things cool. So you have a remote filler for the radiator? Also, those look like 2-3" hoses going through the floor. Are you running hoses that large of a diameter under the car?
[/quote]

Those hoses are connected to 1x2 (rectagular) steel tubing. Hoses are 1.5" and 1.75".

The radiator is at least 10 years old so you may need to call them. Its bigger than most used. I think there are others out there that might work just as well. My car has never been over 200 degrees even in 110 weather. I would make sure IMO to use a big alternator, I'm using a 150 amp unit. Those fans will be happy to use every amp.

Does this thread, and these different set ups apply to any water cooled conversion? I am searching, reading, and yearning to do a subie conversion. This thread was very helpful in convincing me to not buy a kit and to do the radiator myself. In doing the subie conversion would the radiator or fans be different? Also, why do some people do vertical mounts while others are angled?

If you purchase a short enough radiator you can install it vertically. The angled ones are usually too tall to allow the hood to close so they are angled back to provide clearance.

It seems that the radiator has always been the Achilles heel of the V8 powered 914s.
I have owned 5 V 8 914s and they all seemed to run hot.
The ones that didn't were the ones that had the Ron Davis radiators installed. Two of them had the complete Renegade kit, fans, shrouding and hoses and by pass items.

Personally I think that the radiator is the one part that you should not go cheap on.
Just my $9.14 worth.
Craig at CAMP

I can't believe I still haven't procured the radiator yet. I was just looking at this one from Jegs and adding a couple 12" fans. Would two 12" fans cool better then say one 16"? The 12" fans I think were 1750 CFMs and the 16" was 2600.
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Pro.../52000/10002/-1

Don't skimp on cooling, re-read your old thread. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=178965&hl=

The more surface area the fans can cover the better, if you were running a taller square radiator then yes a single fan is better. If you get a short wide rad then mimic the renegade dual fan setup. They've already done the research so you don't have to.

Does the set up differ depending on the engine used in the conversion? Are all of these suggestions applicable for a subie conversion?

As a rule of thumb: You should use a radiator with at least the same surface area as the one designed for the engine.

Most radiators are aluminum, brass and copper. This is how most factory radiators come. newer cars come with aluminum and plastic. Both of these types are good.

Better, is an all aluminum radiator. A dual pass aluminum is even better.

A good small radiator to possibly use is an aluminum dual pass Scirocco radiator. This should be ample cooling for a Subie engine.

The key to cooling is air flow. with or without fans. You need an inlet in the bumper or air dam to direct flow through the radiator. A shroud should be built to force all incoming air into the radiator. You also need the air to leave the radiator. This will require an outlet at least double the size of the inlet. This will create a low pressure area behind the radiator thus causing flow.

The most accepted practice is adding holes in the fender wells. Some flow out the bottom trunk. Care must be taken if you choose the ladder due to suspension mounting points. You could cause a structural issue by removing too much material.

I have use both methods. Both work fine. The downfall to the under car outlet comes into play on dirt roads. If you are driving slow and the fan turn on, dust will blow everywhere and into the car.

Brings us to fans. A fan(s) need to pull air from the radiator. Never try to push air through. A good analogy is trying to push a rope. It doesn't work well. You need enough fan air flow to keep the car cool while in traffic.

Hey all,

I've had my setup in place for a while now and have been contending with a hot running engine scenario every time I take her out for a drive. It is time to finally figure out what’s going on.

More details:

- I am using rectangular tubing for the under chassis cooling lines. They are 1” x 0.5 “and have a profile area of 0.5 square inches.

- I called Griffin because of my issue and was able to confirm that the radiator is of sufficient size and design to keep the engine running cool.

- The sales rep did mention that they prefer to place the temp sensor for the gauge in place of the radiator petcock. Mine is located in one of the intake manifold ports.

Questions:

? Am I getting a “false” reading of the temp because of where the sensor is mounted? I am pretty sure I would get a lower temp reading at the radiator versus at the intake manifold.

? What about the rectangular cooling tubes. The profile area of 0.5 square inches is much smaller than what Renegade recommends with the Gates green stripe hoses… a 1.25 inch ID hose has a profile area of 1.23 square inches and a 1.00 inch ID hose has a profile area of 0.79 square inches. The radiator actually has an inlet of 1.5 inches (1.77 sq. inches) and an outlet of 1.75 (2.41 sq. inches). Obviously, I had to use adaptors to make it all work.

? Is the smaller rectangular tubing impeding the flow of coolant to the point that it is causing the engine to run hot?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

I would think it's too small plus square tubing does not have the best flow characteristics. If it were me (and it's not ) and I had exhausted all other means I would buy some larger hose and run it the easiest, fastest route just to confirm your suspicion.

Did some research this evening. Found that mounting the temp sensor in the intake next to the t-stat is a good location and gives the best indication if the cooling system is working correctly. So much for what the Griffin sales rep told me. I also found out that sometimes the threaded pipe adapter that the sensor is screwed into (then screwed into the manifold) was shrouding the sensor part of the sending unit rather than placing the sensor directly in the path of coolant flow. I need to confirm whether my sensor is completely in the flow path of the coolant or if it is partially or completely shrouded by the threaded pipe adapter. Look like next will be the coolant lines themselves.

Yeah that square tubing size sounds very small for an SBC. You could get some 1" and 1.25" electrical conduit from a local home improvement store and run it underneath if you wanted to do a relatively cheap/easy experiment...just make sure you attach it somehow if you're going to drive it around and take it easy!

Temp sensor should be on the engine to know how hot it really is. Griffin is experienced in front engine, front radiator vehicles. Not 914 conversions.

I cant speak the tubing but it does sound small. Hot hot does it run? I'm running 1.125 ID hose and mine stays too cold most of the time. It only warms up if I'm driving on the freeway during a hot day.

Don't forget flow! The rad needs to be big enough, but you also have to move the coolant to cool properly. Mike Bellis is running a really cool water pump(Mike?What kind again?)Lots of GPH + properly sized rad and fans = cool. Im running a renegade LS cooling kit that also uses an electric pump, and I have zero cooling issues. The renegade kit works, but it can be done way cheaper. Also, the better you can shroud the inlet side of your rad, the better.

Super cool pump...

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I used an aluminium double-pass VW Scirocco radiator. It's short enough to fit upright between the headlights.

Not certain about Mike's setup, but I have the Dedenbear pump on my shopping list based on others' recommendations here...