what a adventure!

first, let me thank brad for all the hours of work and rich for the parts and stuff, couldn't have done it without you!

ok, so, what's the big deal? you buy a new motor, drop the old one, put the new one in, voila!
yeah right ...

what should have taken 4 hours max. turned into a 2 days(!) late night work-session, 12+ hours total. in fact, i just got home 10 minutes ago.

THE GOOD
old engine went out easy.
the new engine runs (somewhat).

THE BAD & THE UGLY
we bolt up the new engine to the tranny and wiggle it into the car, this went pretty much like planned, then we take the first look at it from above ...
hmmm, how is that carb-linkage supposed to work?
shit! it's backwards! yupp, carbs were mounted flipped (wonder if the builder is a VW-Bug guy).
so we take the carbs off, hmmm, bolts are only hand-tight! that's not good ...
flip 'em and back on, now to the throttle cable.
SNAP ...
shit again, thread just snapped off. oh well, guess i always wanted a terry-cable anyways.
put the coil on, let's check the dizzy. ooops, cap is loose ...
it rotates even when clipped down. wtf??? we look at it, hmmm, groove and tab are there, try to fit it again, ohhh, cap is wrong size! it moves around on top of the dizzy. nothing a piece of duct-tape can't fix.
next is the oil, motor got a tuna-can so we need some more oil than usual.
all seems fine, no leaks yet.
ok, let's fire her up. vroom, starts right up, yeah!
but wait, why is the alternator light on???? we grab the multimeter.
yupp, alternator is TOAST. of course the engine is now IN the car. grrrrr
this is where we decided to call it a night last night (about 1pm).
i crash at brads house and off to work this morning (not in my car, mind you), then back to HPH around 4:30 pm today to finish the install ...

so, i get there, check under the car first. puddle of oil!!!
looks like it's coming from the taco-plate ...
car on the lift, yupp, oil-temp sender is leaking. brad jokes "maybe they just hand-tighten that one too". and sure enough, it turns by hand.
right about now i'm getting a bit concerned. i hope the internals of the engine are not just hand-tight either.
i get a new alternator from rich ($$$) and start taking the old one out.
if you have ever done that while the engine is still in the car, you know how i feel right about now. new alternator is in, then adjusting the clutch and throttle.
i quickly make a "puke-bottle" out of a old oil-can and hook it up to the case-vent to collect the oil-vapors. ready for a test drive!
get the car in gear, hmmmm, what's that crunch noise coming from the clutch ???
shit, i didn't check the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel for correct torque!
if there is a god out there ... please don't tell me those are just hand-tight either
pull out of HPH, car idles fine. i'll try to go smooth. bog, almost dies. once, twice, more gas, now it drives. wtf?
whenever i go from idle/just a little bit gas to more, there's a complete DEAD spot, the car almost dies. no power. zero. zilch. if i floor the gas, it starts moving again. i have heard about carbs having a flat spot when coming off the idle jets but not like this. this is like the ignition cutting out for 2 seconds and then hitting again. makes for "interesting" driving.
by now, it's 10pm and we're ready to call it a night again.
i pack up my balls and decide to try the drive home (~45 miles, mostly freeway).
as long as i keep it just rolling on the idle jets (around 3000 rpm in 5th) the car runs smooth. as soon as i give a bit more gas, it almost dies, no power, even backfire.
so i get home and as i try to park the car, the clutch noise is now REALLY loud.
a metal "crunch" of sorts, like something is loose ...
don't know exactly where it comes from, will check tomorrow in the light, but it does NOT seem to come from the vent/filler/puke bottle.

let's have a last look into the carbs ...
i look down the venturi and move the cross-bar.
well, what do we have here! all four carbs squirt completely different amounts of fuel and at different times too ...
on 2 (cylinder 2 and 4) the mains seem to come on fairly early with decent amount of fuel, almost sync.
cylinder 1 and 3 are completely off, way less fuel than the other two and the mains come on much later as well.
oh well, i guess by now i'm not surprised anymore. looks like those carbs were not setup or adjusted either. i wonder if all the bolts are tight ...


moral ????

if you haven't build it yourself DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING TO BE DONE RIGHT.
double check every fucking nut and bolt for correct torque etc.

i really hope this is not the beginning of a motor-nightmare ...
i'm tired now. i'll have a beer. or two ...

later guys,
Andy

That does not sound like a good experience, where did you get the engine from? Dont tell me you got it off Ebay? Good luck with it, sounds like it was just slapped together as a floor model for a show.

nope, got it locally, don't know the actual builder, seller was not the builder ...

brand spanking new motor, 0 miles on rebuild, bunch of goodies internally.
i just hope they're all bolted down correctly ...
Andy

Oh I seem to remember you bought the engine MikeZ had for sale, I cant imagine Mike selling a bad motor. He is too tight with the club to do it intentionally.

What a goatfuck... that really sucks. You skipped bad and went straight to ugly.

Hope it gets better for you. Do you have another ride while the 914 is getting sorted?

-Rusty

See! This is another "fear" of me owning a 914. The only way I am mechanically inclined is that I can screw everything up. No way would I have known what was going on with that engine! And of course would have been in the same boat thinking, "If I bought the engine new and whole...it must be good, slap it in!"

Man, am I gonna need a large crash course in mechanics to keep whatever I get up!

Dan

Despite your woes, congrats on the new engine. I guess Sir Andy will be moving up the AX standings....

I saw a show once on crate engines and the guy took it all the way down...just to make sure it was built properly before installing it.

Man Andy what a story. At least you have good help. I think I'd be talking to the engine builder. I'd want some reassurance

Dave

Ahh, you didn't have anything else to do anyway didya?

hey, i just bought a 914 from rich this past saturday (the yellow one, 73 2.0 if you were there last week or before) and my car is doing the same exact samething. rich thinks it might be the fuel injectors clogging up or something, so he puts in a jug of cleaner in the gas tank before my 400 mile trip home hoping to clean up the injectors.. didnt work. car still doing the same thing. please post how you fix this bogging problem, especially if its tranny related, im eager to know if i need some tranny/clutch work done.

im suspecting its clutch/tranny related on your car (well, mine too)

Andy - what engine are you putting in?? Sorry it's been such an arseache - I am suprised you are going with carbs.

Different problem same symptom Opra guy. Andy sounds like hes dealing with CARBS

The answer to your problem might be contained within these quotes, Andy:









But seriously, check the distributor first. What's the initial timing set to, is the centrifugal advance working?

ROFLMAO

Hey Opera, may be completely different situation, but I had a similar issue with my Saturn. On light accel, it bogged down. If I mashed the gas, it took off like a rocket....as close to a rocket as a Saturn will be anyway. Turned out the plugs were toast. Not sure how many miles were on them as they were on the car when I bought it so I don't know if the plugs are the source of the problem or another symptom.


Interestingly, if I put in higher octane fuel, the syptoms almost completely disappeared.

Replaced the plugs and its working fine now. We'll see what happens.

Andy,

This sucks big time! Hopefully, the builder/seller will stand behind it. Was this an ebay purchase?

haha ...

didn't check the timing (yet), it's a 050 dizzy with Pertronix, it fired right up and idles fine so we were thinking that the initial timing was at least close. it's on my list.

i know i hate carbs, have said it many times.
point was, this is supposed to be a agressive (race) motor that came with carbs. i didn't want to fiddle with aftermarket fuel-injection and then try to brake in the cam/motor.
thought was that it would be set up OK (carb wise etc.) so i could do the brake in right away.

i'll probably start looking into getting a MegaSquirt working with the engine soon.
did i mention that i hate carbs?

have to get some coffee first, then off to look at the engine in daylight,
btw. i'm feeling much better this morning,
Andy

Sorry to hear of your "adventure". Time to take a deep breath and re-think.

You may not want to hear this, but with that clutch noise it seems you will need to drop the engine. That sound may just be a faulty throw-out bearing but you must inspect it. How did the clutch "feel" when you drove it?

Since so many things were loose on the engine, while the engine is out, might be worth it to remove some tin and check torque on the heads, oil cooler, pulley, clutch, flywheel, etc.

I'd talk to the builder and let him know about everything that was loose, plus the wrong dizzy cap and defective alternator. He may be willing to share some of the expenses.

Just a revisit Andy - I hope for the best with your motor and I'm sure you'll find the problem once you get some rest after that major thrashing and frustration you went though.

I couldn't resist pulling your leg and I know that you can take a ribbing.

thanks Pnambic, i'll check the plugs.

sorry double double post

Andy, sorry to hear about the trouble you are having. My recollection is that this motor was sold with a six month warranty from the builder. Time to see how this will work?

Damn man...

Sorry to hear that you have also become a statistic..

And people why I charge more!

You won't find one loose fucking nut on anything that leaves my shop! we'll bust the bolt before I'll leave it loose!

Those of us that can do it right don't come cheap, and don't keep engines on a shelf made for generic applications.

I hope you find the problem and they make it right for you..

yupp, 6 month/6000 miles warrantee ...

here are a few pics of "Bad Boy™", you can't really see in the pic, but there's a lot of oil sitting on top of the motor and i pointed out the fresh puddle underneath.
oil pressure sender is tight, filler box is tight, puke bottle has just some drips in it ...

1)

2)

3)

Looks purdy, at least!

dude, that sucks. contact the builder NOW.

good luck

n

why are pressure relief hoses plugged?

cause i didn't have enough hose to run them to the puke-box.

plus, they only relieve pressure on idle, as soon as you get any RPM, they actually suck in air ...

Andy

check the tranny mount bolts....the four bolts that connect to the underfloor of the trunk....I put in my new motor and tightened everything....after breaking it in at the shop and going for the first drive, after about an hour the shifting got real nasty...almost a crunching noise as you described....turns out 3 of the nuts came off...two being the side with the shift bar...this dropped that side of the tranny over an inch down.....put new nuts in (With LOCKWASHERS! lol)....shifts much cleaner...still grinds going into first and second...but hey...its 32 year old 901....

You know what though...I can relate to your story well....when I First put the engine in, had a dead alternator and a host of other problems...definately the same things with the engine....was fun....got most of it sorted....car doesnt idle for crap right now though...has a tendency to creep to 2 grand for some odd reason if I push it too hard....but it hauls ass....and gets 30mpg or better on fwy....and mine is a 2056 also....webcam 86a with straight cuts....

for what it's worth, here are the specs (supposedly, there is a build-sheet, which i haven't gotten yet) ...

as long as the motor runs and stays together, that is the important thing now


Hey opera guy,

I'm going to be down in Upland in a few weekends, over off of Mountain House and 18th I think ???

Welcome to the wonerfulworldofhotroddin'.

IFAIK, Jake supplies a pulg-in-and-play motor. The rest of us have to do *some* tuning.

If ya got a "hot" cam & carbs, eventually you'll get to an MSD unit. Enjoy the trip. There are things to be learned.

Oil on top of the motor - could also be distributor o-ring. I had one that was making a real mess.

for starters put the linkage on the front of the carbs!!! why people want to fight the f-in linkage contorted between the rear deck is beyond me <_< . what type of fuel pump did you go with?

kevin

huh? linkage works great ...

Andy

I have my linkage on the back, and it works fine. More clearance for futzing with the ignition, too. The passenger side linkage are is quite close to the trunk springs, but that's really the only issue.

me don't have trunk springs no moah ...

Andy

Uh - not sure about that. I had one come off at Sears Point and it squirted oil all over the engine bay. That wasn't no stinkin vacuum.

head-vents? i checked mine, slight push on idle, strong suck on higher rpm ...

Andy

it might have something to do with going around corners and braking that would could cause oil to slosh around and come out of the hoses...but if plugged and not under pressure, I see no harm (????)

YES....this is the motor that I sold him.....

I will make it right for Andy, but a few comments in my defense.

As to the carb sync and 050 dizzy and cap, alternator et al.....well, I never ran this motor, it came from the previous owner as is. All looked like it was brand new. AGAIN, I will make that up to Andy.....

I offered to have it run in on a dyno prior to install (at the buyers's and my cost 50/50) no one took me up on it. As you guys may or may not be aware.....the PO put a LOT of money into it and burned two pistons on it TWICE......that's why he gave up on it and sold the whole car with burnt top end. For what the engine sold for, you couldn't BUY the parts on it for......

Now that Brad and Andy had a go at it....we know why it went up in smoke.....lean running and no run in.....

Once the carbs are tuned, the dizzy is replaced there should be a good running motor.

I just spoke with Brad and Dave...on the way to the Parade....and Brad said it ran strong and is confident that the engine is a good one once the PO issues are taken care of.

If there are any other comments, please don't hesitate to post. I did not comment right away as I was out of town on vaction and my brand new lap top took a dump the day I was to leave.

i just talked to mike, we'll figure it out ...

as he said, he didn't build the motor and he hadn't run it.
can't blame it on him

i'll wait until brad is back from parade to go through and sort out the quirks.

watch out LPR and GGR, here i come!

Andy

Arrgh, just when I started beating somebody...I joke you.

Congrats on the new motor.

Sorry there are a few quirks along with it.

Looking foward to seeing you run it at Alameda all dialed.

Andy,

Just make sure you get the carbs and timing right before you drive it... That is what happened to the red and white roller that Richard bought, they only did a few laps at Willow before the brand new race motor melted down a cylinder do to carbs that were not carb'in. Be careful not to burn anything up by running it.

sm

One of the big things....Brad said the 050 dizzy's cap seems to want to float. It won't lock down and stay put. COuld be a shitty aftermarket cap...who knows.

Hard to set timing until the right cap is on there. Also he mentioned that transition on idle to anything less than WOT allows unequal fuel flow....could be unequal jets or the famous....Duuude, here use these....don't worry about the number on the side, I reamed them out.....

Like I said....the engine needs a good run in and trouble shooting on the intake. Simply rebuilding the bottom end and putting the same intake on will invariably give the same results. Take your time, sync the carbs, get the dizzy cap straight and try again.... all the right stuff is there....except maybe for that cap....but they just need the right "tweek".

This engine did no more than two laps around WIllow...don't repeat the mistakes that resulted in the last melt down.

Did I mention, take your time?

Bloody miracle that carbs ever worked right if you ask me! Ditch them and get a KitCarlson or Megasquirt. If you do megasquirt - do it right and get an O2 sensor and the EDIS setup for fully electronic ignition. The time of futzing with mechanical vacuum operated mechinery is over. Vive la revolution.

yupp, i'm not going to run it until brad's back from the parade.
too expensive for a boat-anchor ...

hmmm, maybe bill could have a look at it, he's only 5 blocks away ...
Andy