I just ordered my spray gun. I chose a Divilbiss G670 gun. This is a new technology gun that claims to be perfect for low air consumption. This may be the ideal gun for us do it at home types - I have a 30 gal. sears compressor. It is rated for 9cfm @ 30 psi.

Technically, it is not classified as an HVLP gun, but it offers the same benefits such as > 65% transfer effeciency.

paid $275. Anyone else paint their own?

keep us up to date on this. I'm interested as I plan on painting the race car myself.

That's a nice gun. Gravity feed is good and low air pressure is even better. You want to get the paint on the car with as little pressure as possible [so my body man says].

I have a couple of Devilblis clone HVLP guns. One for paint/clear, one for primer. I love them.

I'm interested in the new technology behind this one. What makes it new?

-Rusty

Actually, this is not new technology, just relativley professionaly undesired technology.

I believe this is what they call LVLP, the bastard son of HVLP. Low Volume Low Pressure. Your right it is better for do-it-yourselfers because we are often underpowered in the air category. The drawback with these is that the atomization of the sprayable material is not as good as the HVLP therefore you get a less dense coat with each pass. In a professional shop where the speed = money this would slow you down. This is actually a good thing considering most novice painters tend to hang runs with a HVLP gun but it could also leave you with a "dry" paint job that looks splotchy. It does however still give you the advantage of less overspray therefore using less paint just like HVLP.

This is what I copied from the Devilbiss website. Apparently it is the first non-HVLP spray gun to get the OK from the EPA in states. I don't really know what makes a gun qualify as HVLP, but this one meets the government requirements. The people over at Autobody101.com forum say that alot of professional sprayers are going to this gun. It just seemed like the perfect gun for the do it yourselfer in the garage.

High solids clearcoat gun of choice –
Precision-engineered #410 air cap lays out
a smooth, high gloss finish
■ High speed coverage saves time – 20% larger spray
pattern and 15% more fluid flow than many spray guns
due to optimized air cap and new tip design
■ High transfer efficiency – Greater than 65% transfer
efficiency saves material and improves visibility
■ Instant performance and value – Includes three tips
(eliminates guesswork) plus air adjusting valve with
gauge and E-Z Liner™ disposable cup liners.
■ Superior metallic distribution for no mottling or
striping – Optimum color matching capabilities
■ Lightweight and comfortable
■ Simple, economical servicing – Air cap, fluid tips and
needle are fully interchangeable and available separately.
One needle fits all tip sizes. Reduces chance for mismatch
of parts
■ Easy to clean – Plated gun body is gun washer safe and
maintains its ”like new“ appearance. Smooth cup with
wide opening
■ Stainless steel fluid tip and needle
■ Less time spent on refills – True 1-Liter aluminum cup
with disposable push-on lid
■ Quick clean up and upside down spraying (no cup
leaks) – with “E-Z Liner™“ disposable cup liners
■ PLUS gravity gun includes:
1.2 mm, 1.3 mm, and 1.4 mm fluid tips
1-Liter aluminum cup (120175/GFC-502) with push on lid
Air adjusting valve with gauge (180006/HAV-501)
Spray lube, fluid filter, gun hook
(9) E-Z Liner™ disposable cup liners (190966/OMX-70-K48)
Specifications
Air consumption: 9 cfm at 30 psi inlet pressure

I learned to spray with an old siphon feed high pressure gun. The beauty of that thing is you could adjust the fan down to a point, crank up the air, and really get into all the nooks and crannys of whatever I was spraying -- I've not sprayed a 914, but the hell hole and up inside the front fenders come to mind.

Here's what the skeptic in me sees in the literature:

Low pressure combined with "High speed coverage" seems like another way of saying "this things puts out (poorly atomized) paint very fast, so runs in your paint are even easier than before"

1 liter paint cup. Ever hold a liter of paint at arms length for 10 minutes? That, plus the size of the cup will have you bumping into things -- if you're lucky, they haven't been covered in wet paint yet.

I don't think the HVLP 'revolution' made things easier, just different. Paint guns are paint guns, any will do with appropriate technique. Oh, and resign yourself to the inevitability of color sanding and buffing.

Best of luck!

The gun has gotten some very good feedback on the autobody forum. Follow the link below...

AutoBody101 Forum Discussion on this gun

Looks nice!

Make sure you have as high a quality moisture filter. Moisture contamination is usually the main problem with getting a good finish. Good moisture filters aren't cheap.

PK

LVLP & HVLP are the result of strict requirements of the epa.i use a binks hvlp for a primer gun it works awsome.atomization is the most important as for it makes the paint lay better due to less surface tension of the material.i have never used a LVLP. but i prefer the hvlp,s i have they work awsome

Kenny got a HVLP gun with turbine.

87% paint transfer to the car,

NO moisture from da turbine,

HOT air from turbine (for better paint atomization)

And yes, you can make a run but ya really gotta work at it. Just back off on the fluid flow if you don't want runs.

Downside, it's whiney........

sounds just like a $600 vacuum cleaner.....

Ken

$600.00 vacume cleaner I know a guy that uses a shop vac for his hvlp.

Been in paint for years and I work for Toyota Motor MFG. KY. as a Group Leader in the paint shop. The HVLP guns hit the market years ago to deal with the EPA not for the finish. Atomizing the paint gives you good coverage and a smoother finish. It's like covering your floor with ping pong balls or basket balls. The ping pong ball size will give a better cover and flow out smoother. We are going to Sata guns at work. They are the gun most of the custom paint guys are using. I've used DeVillbis in the past and was always pleased by how they performed. The real trick that is most often overlooked is viscosity. If you don't have a good mix your finish will suffer. If you really want to see some coverage, check out a pressure fed electrostatic gun. Of course there are techniques that go along with it as well. The spray gun companies are getting really competitive and of course everything is new and improved even if it isn't. I deal with vendors all the time pushing the gotta have it guns. I never used the gun described but would say you'd be satisfied.

Ok, here are the results of my first day with the Devilbiss G670 gun. I must say I am very impressed with this gun.

Setup:

Sears Compressor - 33 gal.
Air guage set at about 35psi at the gun.
1.4mm fluid tip installed.
I used a fender from a 92 Accord, sanded it down with 400.
I sprayed Sealer, base coat, and 2 coats of clear.

This is the second time I have ever sprayed anything on a car. My other gun is a Sears conventional gun, and I can already tell this gun blows it away. It lays paint down nice and smooth, and is very efficient. I was able to do several coats on this fender without my compressor kicking on. I remember when I used the Sears gun, there would be overspray everywhere, and a mist of paint in the air, but this gun just lays it down, and it dries fast. Very sweet.

Looks like you got some orange peel or dry spray in it. Take it out in the bright sun and see if you got any mottling if you used a metallic.

I just can't get into the HVLP,LVLP stuff. I am afraid it doesn't atomize the base and clear well enough. Since I live in a none EPA state I can use any gun I choose. Wish I could afford a SATA but I will probably go with Devilbiss.

Good luck with your painting. One of the most important things to keep in mind is GO SLOW.

Yes, I did get some orange peel, but it is very minor. In fact, I have seen a lot of factory finishes lately that have orange peel. I don't know what that's about. I think the main reason I got orance peel is because I moved the gun to fast.

Yes lots of american cars have really bad orange peel. I think their paint process leaves a bit to be desired. When my car was running I parked it next to a 2002 Camaro SS at the local autocross. I couldn't beleive the amount of orange peel in the side of his car. I would never have paid for a 30K$ car with that crappy of a paint job.


Most orange peel is caused by:
Surface Drying too fast, Wrong air pressure adjustment
Improper thinning solvent
Under reduction
Lack of proper material flow.

What brand materials are you using?

I have both a high end Devilbiss HVLP (can't remember the number off hand) and a high pressure Devilbiss JGA. I like them both but the HVLP takes about 25% longer to paint a car. It took me a while to slow down and get a good finish. I use the JGA for primers and save the HVLP for finishing only.

Ok guys, for those of you who wanted to keep updated on my do-it-yourself paint experience. I had the opportunity to paint my brother's honda. He bought a wrecked honda that needed the front fenders, hood, and bumper replaced, and I told him I would shoot it for practice. This was the first time using the Devilbiss 670 "plus". The gun is awesome. I only got two runs, and that was in the primer/sealer. I just got impatient and laid it on too thick. I also ran into some imperfections laying on the metallic basecoat, basically faint streaks. I think I can get better at that with practice. Also, I had a fair amount of orange peel in the clear coat, but I was able to buff all that out. See the photo. It looks pretty darn good. The gun is very forgiving, and you can go slow and not get runs, which is great for us newbies.

The white spots is just compound splattered on the hood. Has a nice glassy shine!

Looks good.

Yeah Metallics can be tricky. I ran into the same problems. Did you run a drop coat over the last coat of basecoat? If you turn your gun down to something like 10-20psi and step back and lightly dust the last light coat on it should do away with the mottling.

When you buffed it out did you use a foam or wool pad? Make sure you keep plenty of water on it when you are buffing it keeps from getting the paint to hot.

Brett:

I would like to know more about the "dusting" technique, because this is the first I am hearing of it. Wouldn't dusting it on that way leave the last coat kinda like dry spray?

Brett, you can see some orange peel? Great eyes and image production.
To me, I hope ours are as good.
L. McC

Don't go that light. Just turn the pressure down a little (with HLVP I don't know) and pull back a little from your part. Then lay a light coat down.

I am of the opinion that HVLP guns don't tend to atomize the metallics as well as High pressure guns, but your gun may be a little different. You could try adjusting your fan pattern and see if that helps. You probably didn't have enough overlap to get good coverage.

Tbrad might be able to explain a little better.

any updates on the gun & techniques?

Our paint supplier gave me that very gun, and I like it for shooting nothing on anything!



I'm stuck in the days gone by... it atomizes much better, and requires much less to maintain the gun... easy to clean... just seems wrong, and won't hold a quart.

Oh, the first finish I shot with it was Shoreline Gold Metalic...

Jesus! The flake WOULD not lay down everywhere, I had to color-sand, and shoot a second color coat with my rocket propelled jet gun.




M

I have a collection of old school Binks Model 7 and 18 guns along with a pressure pot. Also, a DeVibiss touch up gun- a couple of China knockoff's for primering . I bought a Devibiss HVLP GTi gravity feed gun and I like how it sprays. For better paint finish with less orange peel high pressure is the way to go. However, with today’s catalyzed paint finishes you almost always color sand and buff so having a small amount of ‘peel is OK. Plus, you waste less paint with HVLP. One thing I like about the Devibiss gravity feed gun are the disposable pot liners. With them, you can spray upside down and cleanup is easy. DH

Sean:

I have no updates except to say that this gun is really good. Don't listen to these guys trashing this gun, it works great. I think most of the guys who don't like it are conventional gun guys, who won't like changing techniques. But I tell you, this gun lays it down smooth, and hard to make it run. Look at the photos of the Honda I shot. Since you are in the same boat I am, with no real experience, so this gun is great. Go to Autobody101.com and search their forum - everyone there likes the gun. The aluminum can is large enough to hold a lot of paint also. Now if you are painting white, that should be very easy. Metallics are harder.

did you use base/clear? can this gun do a single stage?

The only thing I can add Thomas is that I *might* turn down the pressure on the reg to 28 psi. Thirty five seems awful high.

It looks like you got very good results.

Solid colors are definitley easier... I won't even touch a metallic anymore. Course my painting pretty much sucks anyway.

BTW - it can't be said to much, the equipment may help but it's really all in the prep.

I shot primer/sealer, then base coat, then clear. It comes with three tips: 1.2, 1.3, & 1.4. So you should be able to shoot whatever you want. Now, I did have to sand the clear and buff to cut down the orange peel, but I think that is common practice. Besides, when you buff it it shines a heck of a lot more. For the trunk that you want to do, I think it won't be so hard to get it done without buffing. I find that I can shoot smaller areas much easier than say a whole hood. You know, there is a lot of stretching going on when doing large surfaces. You get tired. The way I look at it is like this: I plan on painting the whole car. If, when I am ready to paint the whole car, if I am still not good enough, I know I will be good enough to at least paint the trunks, wheel wells, engine bay, door jams, etc. Just shooting that alone will save me a heck of a lot of money over having a pro do it. Plus, are they really going to spend the time necessary to really get in their and make sure they hit every nook and cranny?

My only thing that I really need to improve on is the "dusting" technique for the final coat of base metallic. Other than that, I am good to go.

The old school painters are dying off...the HVLP gun is the only one used now in the vocational schools that are training the new painters. It's just a matter of what you are used to using.

HVLP guns have been required use in CA for the last 15 years. Binks Model 18s were a great gun....just using them NOW gets the user and "YERNOTLISTENING" ticket from the the Air Pollution Guys....

The purpose of dusting is to get the metalic to stay close to the surface and get an even finish - no "tiger stripes." On your last wet coat, pull you gun back - maybe 24" - and make some fast passes over what you just painted. It should melt in and the metalic stay to the top. The idea is not to put a lot of paint on, just a light dry coat over the wet one. Before you get that far, try to keep the paint even by watching the paint going on and controling your speed and distance from the panel your spraying. You have to develop the eye to read the paint. You'll know if your getting an even coat. Over lap your previous pass by 50% but watch out for other overlap areas such as flared areas around the wheels, character lines in panels, or where you meet panels that you've already sprayed. Keep you air cap parallel with the surface that you are spraying. Don't arc of fan your passes. Check you fan pattarn and make sure it is smooth and even before you start. Check your gun setting on some masking paper. Make sure it is smooth and the fluid delivery is set to what your comfortable with. If you have any questions, drop me an email. Sometimes I don't get to check out all the topics. I'll try to give ya what pointers I know.

I just found this article, and thought I would share. Good stuff...

“Basics of Basics” Color choice
By Brian Martin

Color choice is so much more than simply picking a color because you ‘like” it. Not every color “works” on every car. Some will argue “to each his own” or “It’s your car, paint it what ever you want”. This is true, but you are painting it to look better, right? Why just get color on it for the sake of getting color on it. Why paint your favorite color on it when your favorite color is not going to make the car look it’s best?

We have all heard that black will show waves or poor bodywork. White on the other hand hides them. This is just the start of color choice. We can agree that even though you may love black cars, painting a wavy old beast a cut and buffed black would be wrong. It goes beyond “taste”, it is just plain wrong, if your desire is a nice looking car.

There are a few different issues when talking about color choice.

Cost:

IF you have a budget for your paint you best check on the cost before you commit to a color. In one brand of basecoat a price can go from approximately $185.00 to $420.00 a gallon. Any color with a lot of red or pearl is going to be more expensive, for instance. These are not custom colors, just regular old colors off new cars. Whether you plan on BC/CC (base coat/ clear coat) or SS (single stage, where no clear is applied over it) will effect cost. Pick a color and go to your paint store to see all costs, color, clear, hardeners, reducers, any sealers you may want, etc. You don’t want to be surprised when the car is sitting there ready for paint.

Resale Value:

Yeah, I know, you’ll never sell it. Well, I have to tell you, you most likely will someday. There are lots of cars painted pastel pink from the 1980’s that are darn near un-sellable today. I know of one, a friend of mine passed away unexpectedly and his wife almost had to give away his ’34 Ford. It would have probably gotten up to $10,000 more if it weren’t an outdated trendy color from the 80’s. Really watch those trendy colors, they can kill you.

Does the color “work” on this particular body style:

Not all cars look good in all colors. Again, I am not talking “taste” here, I mean some colors just DON’T “work” on every car. There is a stock bodied 4dr ’59 Cad in my area that is painted a fire engine red, I am sorry, it doesn’t work. In fact, it looks like hell. Is that just my opinion, well yes and no. It is also the public’s opinion in large part, too. GM spends a LOT of time and money on marketing and research to come up with the colors it offers. That red would not be a color offered on that car for good reason. This is a very gray area (if you will pardon the pun), it does come down to “opinion”. But it is like speaking your mind about politics, sure you have the right, but you better “know the room”, or you will suffer the consequences. The resale of the Cad is in the tank. The likelihood of a crowd gathering around it at a show is in the tank. He took the chance when he opened the can. Because of this rule it is not likely you will ever see a white Ferrari or a candy apple red Rolls Royce.

What do you want the color to do:

This is where we return to the black shows waves stuff. Sure black shows waves, but did you know it hides body lines? That’s right, it “softens” body lines. If you have a car with features you want to hide, black is the color. This is one of the reasons it is known for being “mysterious”. It hides a lot, leaving it up to the imagination. It also makes the car look smaller. I am not kidding, park a black ’68 Camaro next to a white one and you darn near have to take a measuring tape out to prove they are the same car.
On something like a ’27 Ford model T the doors lay on top of the cowl and quarters. It kinda looks like a tire patch on the side of the car. In black they “melt” in and don’t pop out as much.

White is just the opposite, it may hide waves in flat panels, but it shows off body lines. This includes how STRAIGHT the lines are. Panel fit is very critical with white. The gaps look like black pin stripes, if they are not perfect it will look like wavy inconsistent width stripes.

We all know what black and white do, any other color just falls in the middle. It is a sliding scale, the darker the color the more it’s effects are like black and the lighter the color the more it’s effects are like white, simple.

Graphics, stripes, two tones:

You have to really watch what you do with color when it comes to combinations like with two tones and stripes. They can “cut a car up” or distort it. Remember those black and white Camaros I mentioned? Well, paint the top half of your car white and the bottom black and it will look a black Camaro with a camper shell sitting on top. I remember a beautiful Cuda here in town when I was a kid. It had a black stripe down the side that thickened into an arrow shape at the rear on the quarters. Every single time I saw that car it looked like the trunk was open! I would see it out of the corner of my eye and it looked like the darn thing was driving down the road with the trunk open!

A two tone ’50 Chevy coupe with a chopped top wouldn’t even looked chopped if the top color was white and the bottom was black. The roof would look TALLER than stock, just because of the color. Like I said, you can’t pick a color just because you “Like it”.

Take some pictures of the car, blow them up, then color them with felt pens to see what your thoughts look like on the car. It is far cheaper than paint!

Tip 1. There are thousands and thousands of colors out there. To pick one from that huge pallet would be very hard. This is what I feel is the best way to start the color search, find a car the color you want and get the color code off it. It is that simple, the new car lots are full of cars in every color imaginable; find the color and there you will find the exact code of that color.

Tip 2. When you go to get your paint at the paint store ask if there are any “alternates” or “variants” of the color you have chosen. These “alternates” can be VERY, VERY different from the “standard” color. The car you may have seen was one of these “alternate” colors. These alternate colors are different “batches” if you will.

Tip 3. DO NOT PICK THE COLOR OUT OF A CHIP BOOK! These chips are usually not even paint, they are ink. They are a “close” representation of the color, they are NOT the color. (for instance the alternates will not even be represented in the chip books) .

Tip 4. I highly recommend you buy a pint of the color you have chosen, take it home and spray it out. Use an old fender or something and really get a good feeling for the color before you lay out your hard earned dough for a gallon or two. This is not only to see if the color is right, but to see if it covers well, and just how easy it will be to paint. The difference between colors and brands can be night and day in how user friendly they are. If you find that the color is nice but it takes 6 coats to cover, you may want to change the color choice or change the brand of paint. Some “value lines” can be very transparent, so you save no money because you may have to put on twice as much. A high pearl or metallic color may “model” easily, that may be a reason to scrap the color or brand.

Tip 5. After you have your color picked for goodness sakes don’t be a cheapie when buying your paint. Figure out how much you’ll need for the whole job. We are talking every thing you plan on painting, outside, inside, dash, jambs, trunk, everything. When you have an idea how much, add at the very least 20% more. If one gallon is enough, buy another quart. Buy all the paint you will need before you start painting anything. Get a few extra gallon cans and use them to intermix ALL the paint. You then have all the paint you need, no mismatched parts, no running out, you are set to go. If you have a quart left over when you are done, so what? Running out of paint is NOT pretty, it is a disaster in many cases. Now, why intermix? This is a VERY painful lesson you don’t want to learn the hard way. This is it in a nutshell, if you were to go to the paint store and have three gallons of the same formula mixed you would end up with three different colors! I will bet you a dollar, here is why. Some toners are very strong, just a drip will change the color. A couple of different people could mix them, some people mix better than others. There are other variables such as one toner used gets emptied and the next toner used has more solvent in it because it is new and has less strength. Now, these colors may not be “that” different. If you were to paint three different cars with those gallons you may not even see it. But if you were to paint your hood, fenders, and quarters with the three different gallons you sure would! I repeat, this is a VERY painful lesson you don’t want to have to learn the hard way, BUY ALL YOUR PAINT UP FRONT.

Tip 6. If you follow tip #5 you can skip this one. It is something that comes up once and a while. When you have chosen BC/CC, SS, Lacquer, enamel, what ever, paint the WHOLE car the same. Don’t paint the jambs SS and the outside BC/CC or something like that. Yes, it “can” work, but seldom does. The formula for the SS and BC of the same color is NOT (usually) the same. The SS paint is not just the BC that you don’t put clear over. For that matter just clearing a color will change it.

I could bore you with example after example of how I learned this information. Follow these simple tips and you will have fun doing your car, instead of experiencing the pain on your own. These are lessons that are very painful, believe me.

Let me also say that I love color. It has been a big part of my life for over 25 years. I can appreciate just about any color as long as it is done nice. That does not mean that any color belongs on any car. It also doesn’t mean that because I would like a car a particular color that I would paint it that color. It has to “work” or it was a waste of time and money. There are many cars that you have seen grace the front cover of a magazine that would be a big ZERO if it were painted another color. And likewise there are many cars that just don’t get the attention they deserve because they were painted the “wrong” color.

This may be the only car you ever restore, or at the very least one of only a few. The time you take to pick the color is time very well spent, that I guarantee you.

Guns and technique are all individual. I learned to paint with a gun that had a tip so large the paint reps thought it was too big to spray primer. I painted base / clear with it and never had trouble. I sprayed lots of stuff with a pressure pot. You just have to adapt. I don't think I ever looked at the regulator to check pressure.

As far as HVLP, I think anyone that is old school and really used an old style gun won't like it. It takes me probably 25% longer to paint a car with a HVLP gun. When doing collision work, this adds up.

Matt

Our paint guy brought me one of those guns, and I used it on two jobs, then went back to work.

Umm.. typically, I don't have 6 hours of leveling, in clear.. on a guitar. Yikes.




M

what ammount of paint is needed to shoot a stripped 914? half gal? more? less?

k

As stated the "dusting" or Fogging" is intended to let the metallics spread out evenly after the base coat is applied. If you look at a lot of the home done jobs at a car show you can see the striping, especially on silver and dark blue cars. I personally use a SATA for my primer (1.7) a SATA 2000 for my bases, and an IWATA for my clears. IWATA seems to atomize even better than the SATA's. I also have a set of cheapo Titan guns for quick spot priming and chassis black etc. that aren't bad for a do-it yourselfer. My concern with "new" technology is one founded by my personal experience. My first real gun was a Devilbiss OMX. It was a new tech gun made of some type of plastic. GREAT gun, you could shoot your high build primer, clean the gun quickly, apply you base, your clear and airbrush with it. They have an internally adjustable tip. Why was it a bad experience?? None of the old schoolers trusted a plastic gun and it was discontinued after about 5 years. I still have it and still use it ans stand by it. Is it as nice as the SATA's and Iwata....NO. But I still like it.