I've been slowly sorting through the mess I made for myself about a month ago at Willow Springs, and have 1 quote to fix the dent.

I'm trying to decide between (A) repairing my chassis, and (B) getting a new chassis and moving all my parts over.

I feel ridiculous even considering scrapping my chassis when I see some of the crazy "rustoration" threads here, but the fact is it's probably going to be about the same cost to straighten this chassis versus buying a donor chassis/car and building it back up.

I'm going to take this "opportunity" to fix/improve some other things on the car while I have it all apart, but I need to figure out my chassis plan first. Here are my options:

A: If I repair my current chassis ($10k - $12k):

- Find front clip
- Remove Brad Meyeur kit (to be replaced with Engman kit)
- Remove/cut existing reinforcing tubes
- Celette bench, weld new clip
- Fix front right fender/flare (it was also damaged, that strut broke)
- Add Engman kit
- Add back reinforcement

B: Build up a donor car/chassis and move over all my parts ($10k - $15k):

- Find a donor car/chassis
- Remove all rust/prep chassis. Rust repairs.
- Add 4 steel GT flares
- Maybe also put this one on a Celette bench first too to make sure it's straight.
- Add Engman kit
- Add chassis reinforcement
- Lots of small modifications I had already made: lower drivers floor/seat, close up a bunch of unused holes/make it cleaner, lots of seam welding, dash modifications, etc, etc

... plus full R&R on the front suspension/etc, but I need to do that regardless of my chassis plan.

With A it "my" original car, but with B I actually think I might end up with a nicer end result because I'm going through almost everything again, but it's probably a little more money and A LOT more work for me (versus 95% of A is just me writing a check). Am I off on my prices?

So, what do you think? A or B?



-Steve

p.s. And... the other strange factor is that this car/chassis was my first car and I've had it for almost 20 years. But, given how much I've already modified the car, most of those "original" parts aren't there anyways. I think if I got a new chassis and moved over all my parts, it would still feel pretty much like "my" car... I'm not super attached to that specific VIN... Or am I?


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914

A couple hours earlier...

That front bumper had been built and chromed about 4 months ago...

I have been facing the same dilemma, unfortunately my original chassies wasn't as nice as yours. I decided to just start with a new chassies.

Is that a 915 and what shifting mechanism is that?, sorry for the ot question.

> Is that a 915 and what shifting mechanism is that

Yes, 84 915 w/ factory LSD and Vellios "916" kit. It was the best option at the time (1997), but I think their are better options now (Wevo, etc).

-Steve

A.

You know for sure what you are dealing with, you know your $$$ estimate is solid, and you know that the rest of the car is already done. And, it wil make for a better story

If you have 100% confidence in a proper, correct repair under scenario "A", then I would go that route. That car has history, will now be resurrected and put right, and will then continue to provide pleasure (and frustration to a degree) and just add to the cars' "provenance". Yeah, that's a sentimentalist point-of-view, but you must admit that you are somewhat attached to the car after all those years.

Paul

Sorry to see your car.

Been through something similar.
Your biggest problem are the reinforcements that passed the stress to the rest of the car so everything is off.
It's _very_ difficult to fix and it will never have the same stiffness again. Best you can expect from the fixed car is a crippled DD.

I see that you like to race/AX/enjoy the car so, if you have the patience and time, buy a new chassis.

Also consider that you'll have to strip the care to the bone anyway. I bet that fixing your chassis will be more expensive then painting a new one.

I like A too. It's the devil you know vs. the one you don't. Beautiful set up.

That's a tough call and toss of the coin. If you decide to strip your chassis and transfer the parts to another car. I will buy your bent shell. I have a trailer and can come and get it.

> It's _very_ difficult to fix and it will never have the same stiffness again.

The shop that would do the work (European Auto Body in Escondido) knows 914s and I think would do great work.

I had that same concern. What do others think on this? Does a straightened chassis lose a lot of its strength? I was thinking that by adding reinforcement (and maybe more than before for a semi-tube frame build) that the car could get be even stiffer than before. But would those same reinforcement on a new chassis be even better...

Hmmmmm...

-Steve

Remember, once this is all fixed up, there is nothing preventing it from happening the very next time you get on the track. At least accidents on the road are usually covered by insurance. You might want to decide how much you can afford to write off on a racecar when you plan the next build/rebuild.

Either way, best of luck. mark

Steve,
1st of all. Sorry about the car!

Just my $.02... This car can be repaired... You are going to need a frame puller and a lot of jig building. Judging by how far that the roof is tweaked makes me think that the damage is further into the car than the nose. Inspect the longs and see if there are kinks in them or creases. If there are post photos of them. If they are ~ shaped than that means you have some shrink, that means somewhere else you have stretch... Not the end of the world because folks have been fixing that sort of thing since the beginning of auto repair... But it may mean replacing some pieces that you didnt anticipate. I do agree with your statement of strength though. After an impact it is very hard to get the car back to the rigid piece it once was, not that these 914's are super rigid to start....

I would say rebuild if you can! That car is very nice!

Thomas

W are talking steel here. If the chassis is properly pulled by someone who understands these chassis there is no reason it can't be pulled back to where it should without overworking the metal. Once the chassis is in line on the Cellete and it has been checked to make sure the chassis is straight, then putting it back on the Cellete and welding in the reinforcements will pose no problems and you can make the chassis stronger than it was before. The cost difference is pretty much irrelevant. The chassis swap would be easier, because your not having to go backwards, but there would be more work involved in getting the chassis back to where the current one is.

To me it seems like a toss up. If I were doing the work I would find starting with another chassis easier, but either way can be done.

> You are going to need a frame puller and a lot of jig building.

Yes, we know we have to put on on a Celette bench with the 914 fixtures.

> Remember, once this is all fixed up, there is nothing preventing it from happening the very next time you get on the track.

Yup, as much as I love driving this car on the track, I think this accident has ruined it for me. I don't do track days often, but if I go again I'm going to get a $15k boxster (or something) that can be my simple "track car". Not that I want to throw $15k away crashing a boxster either, but in retrospect I'd feel A LOT better about wrecking a $15k boxster than causing $15k of damaged to this car. This car was too nice for the track (nice paint, leather, etc) and I drive it 99% of the time on the street anyways.

-Steve

Steve,

Sorry to see this. As stated before you've got one of my favorite 914s around.

I guess your tough situation comes down to the question of how sentimental you are about this chassis? If you're confident in your shop's work that they can straighten this one back out, go for it. As you stated before, you'd be putting the rolling chassis on a cellette anyways. Keeping it seems like a whole lot less work.

One thing I didn't see you mention in your approx. cost is paint. I can't imagine it'll be easy paint matching panels, but I guess that depends on how old your paint is. Would you repaint the whole chassis?

If you do get a wild hair, Racer Chris has a Ravenna Green chassis located in CT: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=1533132

I'm not sure how fond you are of Ravenna Green, but I think it'd look awesome if you swapped everything over....

Good luck!

Steve,
I'm so sorry to hear about your car--I've always admired your sense of detail and perfection for afar.

Question: Your dime or insurance? I ask because, will you end-up with a "salvage" title? To me that is a deal breaker for fixing the car. I know it really doesn't mean a thing for those who understand, but it just becomes a dark cloud that follows the car.

I know your car will be awesome once again even if you fix it.
Mark

man, this sucks big rotten goose eggs! Professional consult is required here to make a sound descision. call Trever! let him look it over with his experienced eyes. he loves 914s like us but he will give a fair dose of reality about this chassis...good or bad.

the bend may be at the A pillar and forward only. this woujld affect B pillar door gap and could be isolated damage forward of the B pillar...
Trever AKA "TWISE" will know as soon as he sees it (European Auto Body)

Sorry to see such a nice specimen in any accident. IMHO, do all you can to save it since you've owned that vin number for twenty years...not many can say that about their 914's.

> Trever AKA "TWISE" will know as soon as he sees it (European Auto Body)

Yup, it's there now and where I got my quote. Their advice is pretty much the same - they can definitely straighten it, but they can also build a new chassis/flares and the cost will be about the same...

So we know it can be straightened, and also think they do great work, but what's the right decision. I am leaning towards fixing this chassis, but I'm not in a huge rush to make a decision either.

-Steve

> Question: Your dime or insurance? I ask because, will you end-up with a "salvage" title?

My dime, and no, there would not be a salvage title.

Wow Steve what a bummer, I've always been impressed with your car. It's funny, initially, I felt B, but since you mentioned that you probably won't do the racing as often once you rebuilt it, I'd probably go with A. There is a sentimental attachment to the car for you.....just like I have with mine. Now if you were going to continue racing it, then that attachment kinda goes away, then I would have said B.

I have helped several guys find a clean donor chassis. it is getting harder to find low rust donors

> initially, I felt B, but since you mentioned that you probably won't do the racing as often once you rebuilt it, I'd probably go with A

Why do you think that?

Honestly, I think I'd want a car that I'm going to track to be even stiffer and safer than a street car. I've never quite understood that... ?

And... I'm still not convinced that the repaired chassis with reinforcement still wouldn't be very, very stiff.

I'm been toying with the idea of building some sort of "half cage" this time around (door height and lower, and as easy as possible to get into (with a cage)). I'm still not likely to track the car again, but want the car to be stiff and correct.

-Steve

> it is getting harder to find low rust donors

No kidding, I have been looking around just to see what's available (even if just for a front clip), and so far... not much!

old photos...

Maybe this point of view will help:

Let's assume you want to buy a 914. You found 2 identical cars that are just what you were looking for and priced the same. The only difference is their history:

- One car was completely rebuilt using some beautiful parts from a concurs car that was damaged in an accident.

- The other car was severely crashed, cut in two and a front clip from some other damaged car was welded in. The combined chassis was measured and aligned using the best available tools.

I would pick the first one without blinking and I'm sure all those who commented on this thread will do the same.

Why would anybody prefer something that was damaged when a perfectly good alternative costs the same ?

And from my past experience, trust me, that old car of yours will never be the same.
Sorry about the old car but I believe it's for your own benefit.

Good Point, maybe that's the way to go, can I revote?

> cut in two and a front clip from some other damaged car was welded in.

I'm not sure if that's exactly the plan, but I'll find out more details next week. I think the idea is to graft in a corner, but regardless it still could be ugly.

How do you deal with the glass?

> How do you deal with the glass?

Have new glass made? I really have no idea, but I'm sure it could be done...

I'm just brainstorming, but it is interesting.

Seriously, Repair the chassis you have. You know the car, You just had it painted so color match shouldn't be an issue.

The car looks worse than it is. Really, I would leave all the welded body panels on the car, drop the engine and front and rear suspension, gas tank, dash, ect.

Get it up on the Celette and pull the car. You will need to remove the tubing stiffeners. It will pull easier with them cut out. One the chassis is stress relieved and the front sheet metal is as pre-dimensioned. THEN remove the left fender, both headlight buckets and front nose panel. The rest is simple.

If your not putting the car back on the track forget all the extra tubing. You won't need it. Besides, it's dangerous in a street car. Just check over the chassis spot welds for signs of stress. If the spot welds were stressed you will see it. Seam weld the area or drill and plug weld the area and you'll be fine.

That was a beautiful and it can be just as nice again.

Here's a thread I have started on Sandys Ravenna car. The one was headed for a sawsall party. I saved the fenders. They werte totally kinked.

What does your little girl think?

.....Remembering 914 day, July 26th

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Good choice, whatever you decide. The only bad desicion I've ever made was to not drive my 914 when I could have.

Conrad

Whoa, I am so sorry to see that and shocked...you car was seriously beautiful and kind of like how I wanted to build my car if I had the money...I am very sorry but I hope you decide to rebuild it and not swap parts to another chasis...good luck to you.

Here's a walk down memory lane.

I assume my car is out of the question then...

I would fix it. while a celette bench would obviously be best I do not think it is a mandatory tool to get it straight.

those diagram/pics show alot of extra steel being added that dont do you any favors street or track.
a street car should be allowed to crush to manage deceleration of impact. this absorbs energy that will not be transfered to the ocupant

> veltror
> I assume my car is out of the question then...

You are exactly who I was thinking of when I've been considering a chassis swap. I mean, how could I give up my this chassis when I look at what you are working with?!?!


> Sean
> those diagram/pics show alot of extra steel being added that dont do you any favors street or track

Several of those pictures/reinforcement designs are from pretty well respected builders. Do you really think they are worthless additions or ? What about the Engman kit?

-Steve

each example must be discused in context of the car its in. whats good for a car with a cage is different than what is needed in a non caged car. we should optimize based on how we will use our car.

Steve, I sent you a PM

Fix it.
You never had a straight chassis to begin with...so some TLC on a cellete will deliver you a really straight chassis.

If its apples for apples, I would invest in the time on a bench to adjust a few other things (aside from fixing the damage) and you will end up with a better car in the long run.

Rich

All the best with either decision...It was great seeing you at the event...maybe next time I will be running with you in the fast group.

> I would invest in the time on a bench to adjust a few other things (aside from fixing the damage) and you will end up with a better car in the long run.

Hmmm... That makes sense but there sure are conflicting opinions on this. It does seem to me that that the fixed car could be even straighter/stronger than a stock car that never had any damage or extra work done, but there others who say the opposite is true (it will never be "right").

Sort of like "blue printing" a factory engine... A blue-printed and rebuilt engine can be better than a 100% stock factory engine, right?

-Steve

Talk to Bob Saville about Huey...

Wrecked at Targa Newfoundland
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Now autocrosses and shows
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1- It wasn't "right" from the factory. Or at least, it wasn't perfect. These cars were made by hand on a production line, and none of them is exactly right.
2- It looks like you have extra tubes; a car with those in place will be stronger than any original 914 if the tubes are in a reasonable place. If you're worried about strength, then put in more tubing in the right places.
3- If you do the work on a bench with the correct fixtures, it will be at least as straight as when it rolled off the showroom floor.

I say fix what you have. In the end, it will be straighter and stronger than a fresh shell, as long as the people doing the work know what they're doing.

And this is also time to pick a good shop to do the work, and then listen to them. If a good place digs into the body and tells you it would be better to get a new shell, then ignore all of us "experts" who haven't actually seen the car and get a new shell.

--DD

I sure hope ya fix it.
did Trev see it yet?

I've decided I'm going to try to repair the car first and see how it goes. If it can't be 100% straight and strong, then I'll look at replacing the chassis.

I found some of the parts I need from Glenn in LA via Craigslist. Really nice guy and I'm surprised we've never met before (at least I don't think I had met him). He had 8 914s in his backyard, and was pretty knowledgeable about the cars. I don't think he's on the forum...

I've never cut apart a 914 like this before. I certainly got a new perspective on areas of the car I hadn't seen before.

The rust looks worse in the photos than it really is. It should clean up well.

-Steve

thats great news. I think he will turn out just as fine as he ever was

Did you get the VIN?


Someone with experience can work magick with a Celette bench.
Glad you're making progress.