Just curious if anyone has dropped a newer (mid 90s) Honda Civic engine in a 914?

I have a 96 1.6l engine, harness, fuel injection, all hardware and also have a turbo charger laying in the corner of the garage..... The combo should put down a very reliable 250 hp and just had the gears turning in my head about the thought of it.

Someone has put an S2000 engine in one. Most of the Honda engines run counter clock-wise. So you would need to flip the diff. The newer K-series engines run in the correct direction.

I think there is a member named FASTHNDA or similar that has done it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=97897

I've never opened up one of these trannies, is it as easy as taking it apart and just flipping the diff over, or would it need machine work to flip?

Requires the fixtures, which are fairly rare and NLA.

The Cap'n

Great link Rand! Thank you!

Ok this may or may not be a dumb question. Can you just flip the whole transmission upside-down and just plug the vent tube that is in it now and re-drill a new vent in the case, and would it still get proper oiling if flipped like this?

Which type of honda engine do you want to use? The D-/B- and H- series spin the "wrong" way , The S2000 F20 engine and all the K-series spin the "right" way and do not require you to flip the diff.

For your info: The H22 is much heavier than the B16 and prone to oil starvation damage, So is the B18, The best and strongest engine is the B16, that is for the old generation. You can boost it, charge it and as long as take very good care of the fuel injection part, that is, the right mixture/ecu program, you can beat the hell out of it...
Stay away from the D-series, unless you mod the hell out of them for big bucks, they will yield too little of HP profit.

For what it's worth: forget the old generation and because you're in the USA, the K-series are cheap. no flipping the diff hassle and it is truely an amazing engine!!
Charge it, get a K-Pro ecu and you'll never go back to the aircooled stuff ( no offence guys ).

Do not expect V8 torque, but high rpm fun with hp figures perfect for the 914.

Also a good option is the Honda S2000 F20 engine. Almost identical to the K20 with a few minor differences, swap a K20 valvecover and camgears and this engine can also use the K-pro ecu.... stock 240HP 9k rpm....

I've been building Honda engines for over 20 years now and I still think it's one of the best ever........

Randall

I was looking at the B16, because it is already sitting in the garage and I have all the parts to make it work and run all the way from the computer to the header

Then you need to flip the diff, or buy a G50 911 transmission and use it upside down.

KEP ( kennedy engineered products) sell the adapter plate and flywheel to mount the B16 to any porsche/ Vw transmission.

The 911 transmissions spin the "wrong" way already for a 914. The problem is that they are designed to have the input spin one direction--flipping the diff only changes the direction of the output. The internal bits are designed to spin one direction, and they generally will be less happy when spun the other way.

Corvair engines spin the "wrong" way as well, and the general solution for putting them into VWs or 914s or what have you is to rebuild the engine with a "reverse rotation cam" so that the engine spins the other way.

You can use a 911 transmission (901, 915, 930, G50, etc.) without flipping the R&P with the B-series Honda engine. (One Rennlist member ran an unmodified Corvair motor and a 912 transmission, at least for a while.) But the durability of the transmission will be a real question.

--DD

Flipping the diff is easy and requires no special fixtures or tools. Some steps, but nothing exotic.

If you run the tranz in revers then the guts will all be in reverse, even if the output is going the right way.

So I take it you would also need a starter that turns and engages the opposite way too?

Your flywheel will rotate in a different direction than intended, only by reversing the diff, your output will be the correct way. Since the flywheel will rotate in the direction the new engine does, you will also need to adapt that.

The bseries has the startermotor on the same side as the 914, maybe KEP has a solution to mount it on the other side of the adapterplate. Give him a call, I visited him when I was in LA a while ago and discussed the way I wanted to have mine made, he is extremely helpful and can cnc just about anything

He made my adapter for a V6 NSX engine to an inverted G50 for my mid engined Honda Integra

I'll have to look at it some to see if I can just use the Honda flywheel, pressure plate and modify the Honda starter, then use the Porsche clutch disc. It's been a long time since I looked at the Honda engine, so it might be close, or way off....guess I have to do some measuring

The KEP setup uses a new flywheel that uses the Porsche clutch, maybe he has a solution that enables use of the honda starter, but most likely it has the porsche ring gear and requires the porsche starter.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against KEP, but if it is something that I can take an afternoon or even a weekend to fabricate and save a couple of hundred dollars by doing my self I'd rather do it. Plus on the end i can take more pride in it because I made that part instead of buying it.....am I nutty for thinking like that? Maybe lol

Do you happen to have a link to build on you Acura? Sounds like a great project!

See, this is my problem, my stock engine is in good shape, but I can't leave things alone lol and I have this Honda engine, and I also have a rebuilt GM 4.3 sitting here too, but the 4.3 has a carb on it and I wouldn't want to turbo it unless I swapped it over to fuel injection, plus it weighs a lot more than the Honda engine does

Nope, you are right. It's just that when you have cad drawings of both engine and transmission side and you cad draw a custom adapter plate, you are spot on. My experience with home made plates is that in most cases there is a mis-alignment which will not show in the beginning but will come out in later phases resulting in strange failures, which can afterwards be related back to misalignment, since internal porsche gearboxparts are generally more expensive then the adapterplate, I would go the cnc way,hence my assumption....

The B16 in my opinion is a very good engine, like I said earlier, it's a monster of an engine, especially with a mild quick spinning turbo. 250-275HP is easy and with those numbers you can keep stock internals, which in turn is cost effective. Just check for oil consumption....in most cases this is due to age and can be easily remedied by replacing the valve seals....

The acura project and the rest is on my site: RVWerks

Best regards

Randall

does anyone have said CAD DWGs? I need it to make an adapter plate for a big 250ft/lb electric motor and as Randall mentions, i want to get the clutch package relationships correct

Scan the motorflange and send the cad to KEP or take it to KEP.......

Fasthonda is thread..>Michael. He knows his stuff

what about a hayabusa turbo? any toughts?

Why not, the sequence of adapting the honda or the busa engine is the same

what would the weight savings be over the b16?

Do a search for the "Smart Car Diablo" you will love them

interesting. but i only get stupid videos. do you have an informative link?

i reckon, the real question is, if there is a way to reduce gearing to make this work. has anybody thougth it through or even done it?

The Hybusa motor has the transmission built in as one price with the engine, so in theory (my theory) output shaft of the bike tranny to the Porsche tranny input shaft, then try the bike tranny in 5th gear and row through the Porsche gears.....then shift the bike tranny to what ever gear gives you the best overall final gearing (think of it like a gear spliter ons big truck)

wow, that makes it even more interesting. thanks.

Do a search for bike engined cars (BEC) on google. Specifically take a look at what locost builders are doing. (Those guys are champions at coming up with engineering solutions on a budget)

You can chain drive the wheels like in a radical sports car but that needs maintenance to keep tensions and alignments in check.
Alternatively (but add weight) you can use a RWD diff and fab a short prop/drive shaft to drive the rear wheels.

What about using the Honda engine/ tranny combo and having the outer CV joints re machined to slide into the factory Porsche hubs?

SOT: But I have always wondered if you could put a front wheel drive (transverse I think) in the rear of the 914......

My 99 Solara (camry) is a wonderful engine & you can put on the TRD supercharger for >240hp.

You would still have to do the front radiator like the V8 crowd does.

I just thought it would fit, and be cool to have a supercharged transverse V6 running amid-ships in a 914 ;-)

Stu

Mark,
Assuming you are still talking bike engine. The bike transmission only has one output (sprocket) and you'd need to make up some sort of diff arrangement to get the power to both wheels.

2 big downsides.

1. You have to basically elimate the rear trunk. Making the car a rear engine rear wheel drive.

2. The way the honda trani orients, one axle HAS to be much longer than the other. Therefore you get what is "torque steer", Which when translated in RWD fashion is the car always pitches one way when doing burnouts, and it acts differently when getting on power mid turn turning left vs turning right.

Now you have a couple of pro's with this here...


1. Honda engine reliability
2. Honda trani reliability.
3. Honda Engine aftermarket
4. Honda trani gearing makes an almost unlimited gearing options from the factory. (Combine an SI trani and a HF trani and you can make whatever you want pretty much).

5. (914 implementation related), When removing the rear trunk you can make a fiberglass engine cover and get some of it back for jackets and small tools. Also where the engine normally is can now be an expansion of the interior with some proper design (I hope your following me here). Basically a smugglers box.
6. Honda's dont need barely any cooling so a small radiator in the rear with a fan on it 100% of the time and you'll be good to go, leaving the front trunk untouched.


This is a build I am dying to get my hands on and DO. I feel that its a great way to get a reliable 250hp 45mpg 914 with some really cool engineering.

Yes I follow you here, this is what I was talking about with using the Honda engine/ tranny.

I know it has one long and one short axle, but didn't know that this is what causes the torque steer issues.

I don't mind losing the front and rear trunks, as long as I have a place to put a few small things in like you said, a "smugglers box".

I think the hardest think with this setup would be the shift linkages, but I have around 20 or so long, large cables with mounting tabs and end links that I could fab up some brackets to make work

Shift and clutch linkage is easy. You could go with a hydraulic clutch and use the stock hydraulic clutch setup, Or you could keep it cable and go that route. Shifting should be done via cable. The honda setup is PERFECT for a cable system.

Also you could easily keep the front trunk, And some of the rear trunk (Basically enough to throw tools, a jacket and the targa top). Like I said you only have to deal with the radiator, and you could easily go with a 1/2 radiator and if you really wanted to you could mount it in front of one of the rear fenders and make a cutout. Using a fan you would have all the cooling you need, the honda engines run REALLY cool.

Yup, if I go Honda, I'll probably run the stock Honda tri pedals and raise the master cylinder up to match it

I also have a stock Saab 900 turbo inner cooler that's about 15" x 15" or so....I could mount it on one side with an electric fan and the radiator on the other side up high in the roadster humps......that way I could keep a larger rear trunk and with all the cutting I did on the front clip to lower and shorten the nose I could still have room there for a jack and toolbox

Mark I realize you have the Honda engine laying around, but it is not the best choice for the 914. Trust me on this one. I have three Hondas here now. Just finished putting a GSR engine together for my CRX, have a turbo D16 in my Hatch and am building a GT3 Civic over the winter. I love older Hondas, but for my 914 project I am picking a different engine package.

The Honda engine has or can have equal length axles to eliminate the longer axle. That is a D-series only deal. I have both setups and like the swap to equal length axles for all of my cars. The Turbo car has a CG transmission from the first gen Integras, the race car will have my ZC trans with equal length axles. Torque steer is not an issue with the rear wheels since the rear wheels can't steer. You don't have to have equal length rear axles but it is nice as far as component selection.

The stock Honda pedals won't work. if you are going to replace pedals to use a hydraulic setup, just order the Wilwood three master hanging pedal setup. Cheap and easy to customize. A much better choice than the Honda parts for this application.

If you want to do the Honda engine, just adapt it to work with the 914 gearbox. Of course the 914 gearbox is going to take much of the joy out of that sweet Honda engine though. They sell reverse rotation camshafts for these engines, get a reverse rotation starter and your in business.

For all the hassle your going to go through to make the Honda engine fit and work properly, you can put together a Suby combo that will drop right in, allow use of the Suby transmission, which is a huge step up from the 901/915/930. You can find the engines in the Pull-A-Part for cheap. The 2.2T engine is a solid combo. You can feed them 25lbs of boost stock and they will last for ever. Plus no one wants them, so they are cheap.

If you decide to go the reverse rotation route: do not forget your ignition and waterpump!!
THE B16 transmission has an intermediate shaft and almost two identical length driveshafts. No torquesteer issues.

I love Honda engines and like I said; been building them for 20 years, but I'm going with à wrx engine/ tranny in my 914