Wow Sorry man for your loss, we all feel like we lost a family member.
I think fuses and circuit breakers are the best defense in protecting OUR cars with all the modifications and custom engineering.
Do post any findings as they come clear on what may have happened

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=battery+term...uboD&zoom=1
I always use one of these on my old ones...Disconnect,and dont worry.If something shitty happens,at least its when you are near!I always disconnect my battery when I go into a store,etc..

...Well that's the standard "party-line" for those who don't think! However, I EXPECT people to think and not just act like Neanderthals. It would have been FAR quicker to break the driver's window and pop the hold release than hack away at the hood. They Maximized damage and took longer getting the hood open.

If want to call that "saving lives" keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Terry

bummer glad no one was hurt.

When you joking you should add a smiley so people don't think your a dumb ass.

I'm sure all firemen know where every hood release is. I'm sure it was in that fire training class they have to attend on "How not to damage a burning Porsche 914"

It's always a good idea to bust out a window allowing oxygen into feed the fire then stick your head into it and fumble around to find a tiny flat lock tab low on door with thick fire retadant gloves on. Then stick your head into a smoke filled burning car and look for a hood latch buried under the dash someplace. I mean after all the fire has destroyed the interior, burned through the cowl and is licking at the gas cap. You wouldn't want to damage the hood.

I would gladly sell you mine. Bob

My front trunk release is on my dash, driver side of steering wheel. Its electric so in this instance the car would have burned to the ground.
My guess is as well they didn't know the gas tank was under there, or that I always have a big blanket or car cover stuffed in between it and the back of the dash area.
The blanket as it were was on fire atop the gas tank. The tank was singed bad and my Koni shock adjuster which I keep next to the fill cap was melted flat. If I didn't have the vent system connected, the tank would have likely blow. I just recently connected that system using a steel line.

Do you guys know if the fire trucks use pure water or some mix ? The reason I ask is the metal effected in the fire and surrounding areas look really rusted or etched. Looks bad !

My brother does clean rooms and came from a lifetime of fire suppression systems, and he said:

The presence of chemicals depends on several factors:

1. Outgassing of the chlorine from the vinyl that is burning, if only water was used
2. The temperature of the fire until extinguished, which has different oxidizing levels during burning
3. What the particular fire department typically has on hand, which is a combination of dry, foam sprays and water. It is likely that at least 2 of 3 were used

Since it was probable that they used chemicals for an electrical fire, you can bet there were suppressants in the mix, and possibly water while fire was at the highest point

How long was it from the time of fire to fully extinguished?

Gas fires demand different responses, but each fire company has basically the same response in early car fires, and the foam has multiple suppressant chemicals in them. Foam is less problematic than dry extinguisher. Dry leaves a real mess.

If they used dry chemical, it could etch a lot of the car, and the presence of the whitish dry coatings suggest chemicals.

You would have to watch it when you clean the car, as inhaling any fire suppressant chemicals is very bad. My brother is a fire expert, and he said it looks like chemicals were used, but that it was an early suppression. His terms, not mine.

Use gloves and a mask when cleaning. Again, him not me.

Good luck!

John

Oh man that is terrible. You really worked hard on that car. Hope it ends up being repairable. I have an extra complete dash somewhere with the heater controls, plus some other small interior bits that I would be happy to give you. I won't ever use them anyway. Keep us posted!

My car catching on fire is one of my worst fears. Sorry this happened to you and for your loss. Like you said; no one was hurt and that is a good thing.

So I talked to my adjuster at Hagerty and they seem to be on the ball. The report from MDA (Material Damage Appraisal) is still outstanding and there sourcing parts I was told. I can't imagine it' going to be too hard to find things. Most everything in my car isn't stock. I don't remember him asking me what parts were damaged etc. My A/C system melted and it's not a Porsche unit. The truth is its a Mazda mini van rear air unit. The details year model were in my note book in the glove box. It burned up ! My adjuster is going on vacation, funny how that works out sometimes. I'll keep you guys informed!

I cant see how they wont total the car out.

Called Hagerty again today, still no report sent in by the estimator. I called the estimator's business and they told me to call Hagerty. When I said I did he got off his but and checked the case. He said it still out being compiled. I can't see how they will be able to put together an estimate without my input ??? Oh well I'll just have to wait a bit more. I do want to tear it down and give it a further look but can't until I get the word.. There it sits under a cover, I don't want to look at it that way.

WHY THE FUCK HAS PAINLESS NOT MADE A HARNESS FOR US YET?!?!?!?!?!


Sorry about your loss man!! Hope you get a fair deal with Hagerty

FWIW I've made a habit of switching off my battery disconnect (kill switch) when parking the car. I thought I was paranoid at first. Now, not so much.

What a complete and total bummer. You gotta feel like someone died. So sorry you are going through this. I won't even speculate at the root cause.

The reason you haven't heard from the adjuster is they are going to offer you $9500 for the car, and then see if you complain.

Ditto that! When leaving the house after working on the 914, I will sometimes turn around just to check to see if I disconnected the battery.

I have been through the nightmare of a car fire before. My Saab 9-3 Aero caught fire a couple of years ago and the blower motor was the culprit. The local VFD seemed to get a real kick out of hacking up the dash with their axes
I cut the battery cable and had the fire out before they got there too

I feel your pain.

I do wonder If my agreed value means anything. My contract states in a total loss the value is 30,000 bucks. I know the street value is less but my car is different than any other. Not saying better or worse just I built it my way. I'm not going to worry at this point, with Hagerty its all about reputation and they know it. So far they have been great and I hope it stays that way.

I'm going to fuse everything and set up my alarm system to run on a spare battery, a little one. That way I can turn off the main complicated stuff using a remote.
Earlier tonight I showed a close friend the damage, he was shocked the gas tank didn't blow !!!

As far as feeling bad, well I lost my dad 3 years ago and have changed the way I look at things for sure.
John

What you said about your pops...I understand how you feel. Sort of hard to let any misfortune destroy you. You have a great attitdue.

Dry chem is corrosive when water is added.

Holy crap! Sorry to see this happened to your car! Odd as I just changed insurance company on all of my cars and just started talking to Hagerty again for a stated value policy on the 914 - this just furthers the motivation to close on that.

If I were painless, I wouldn't waste time on a 914 for two reasons, one is the low volume and frankly how cheap they are and aren't restoration vehicles on the order of a 69 Camaro, so no real money there to be had and the second, and more important, is 914s are totally bass-ackwards in their wiring.

Not too long after buying my first 914 I pulled the headlight switch out at one point on my car to do other dash work and noticed all the wires were rather brown from heat - on the verge of burning. When I realized that the hot side of system is NOT fused, the ground side is, I realized that the whole car was a fire waiting to happen. When I built the race car, I did buy a simple Painless fuse box and totally wired the car with the hot side fused, but that was no picnic. The turn signals were a total nightmare to figure out as they back-feed 12V, it is really wild actually, so if I were Painless, I wouldn't touch a 914.

Power to any switch is full hot all of the way to the switch, so take the headlights for example. The factory ran 12V directly to the switch from the battery, that goes through the switch, then essentially on the "ground" leg on the way to the headlights they run the 12V through a fuse. That is a lot of wire that can be shorted out and never blow the fuse, so it heats up and burns to the wires around it, creating a huge fire. If the switch just fails over time and has an internal short, that switch will hit melting temp as the battery dumps huge amounts of juice into it before blowing a fuse.

I think Lucas did the same thing, and all the British car guys call that "Lucas Prince of Darkness".

In an American car, 12V goes directly from the battery to the fuse block, and typically has a fused link or large fuse in between the battery and fuse block for extra safety. Then, you have a fuse FIRST and all wiring to any powered item starts after the fuse. Now if you get a short anywhere in the system, it blows the fuse. The only way to melt down is to somehow short the main feed to the fuse block between the battery and the fuse block. Super safe system by comparison to the Porsche/Lucas thing where there most of the individual systems have feet of wire than can short and no fuse to blow when that happens, causing wire fires.

Yeah, most modern electrical systems run the main power to a power distributuion center that's fused and/or circuit breakers and some relays. This minimizes the length of an un-protected hot; which I think is byndbad914's point.

In my V8 swap, I first ran my main power in a similar manner through circuit breakers and relays, which was a bit tediuos. Next time, I'll use an OEM power distribution center like a late GM car.

Recently, I was doing some non-electrical under-dash work not realizing I laid a screwdriver across an otherwise un-fused hot........I heard a clicking noise which I soon realized was one of my circuit breakers tripping. I smiled.

Andys

Yep, that is what I am getting at.

If you ever wire anything from scratch, your diagram should start with the source (12V batt in this case), immediately followed by the fuse (or breaker if you choose - actually easier than carrying spare fuses), then wiring to the item, the item, then wire to ground. Never put anything before the fuse but the shortest length of wire to get to the battery.

BTW, this issue is what Porsche does on these old cars - I can't speak to new stuff, just know the 70s Porsches do this.

*** I did here from Hagerty today, they said the damage to the car makes it a total loss. I didn't know what to expect because I do all my own work. I guess its expensive out there on the open market. They are working up a salvage value and will have that number next week. I do want to buy the car back for sure, can't see a huge salvage value but who knows what they'll come up with, any thoughts or ideas

Salvage is usually low if you get bids from salvage yards. But if Hagerty has a collector car salvage pool they contact the prices could be higher. If they are paying out 30K you can bet they are going to want to try to recover as much as they can. I would not be surprised if they had bids around $ 5000.00. I know I would try to get as much as I could if I were them.

any updates? I had just started talking to Hagerty again about insurance for my race car and had a quote come in the same day I saw your thread (searching around about hagerty) so I have been interested to keep up on how they handle your situation so I can be better informed before closing on a policy with them...

I did here from Hagerty today and its a total loss as they say. They are offering me the car back for a reasonable price as well. Hagerty's been great every steep of the way. I may be offering the car for sale as my wife has asked me to (very nicely I might add) let it go. She has been great letting me do what ever I want to the car but this (the fire thing) has her worrying. The car has a lot of trick stuff and I will let it go complete, not going to part it out. I do need to get a reasonable price as well. I know someone will get a great setup that has worked well for a long time. People need to see the car in person to evaluate the project going forward. Pictures just don't tell the real story. shoot me a pm with ideas/offers. The car will have a salvage title.

PMed you.