Ok, so an eArlier thread discussed ring without pulling an engine. Well I had no choice as when the valves I mentioned in my earlier thread acted up the strain pushed likely worn rings too far and I had to break her open.

All has gone very smoothly up until about midnite last night when after 1 1/2 hrs of trying to get the #2 cylinder back on over the rings (#1 went right on the new rings) the rings are not compressing enough to go on!!!!

I could really use some urgent advice everyone!

Btw, in a pinch, other than this glitch, the engine came apart in under an hour to the pistons. In the van. I recon I'd have had her back in no time, had this not happened.

Thanks!

Where you at? Maybe someone close could come help you.

I tried sanding them a bit, should I keep at it?

Phoenix AZ... Some parking lot somewhere. I can give details if someone thinks they can come by.

My brand new file didn't cut into them on first try. I was thinking it's cause they are some super tough alloy?

...also, how accurate do I need to be? Will they adjust themselves if I'm slightly off round?

You need to file the ends of the rings. One ring at a time. Take your time and be very careful removing and reinstalling the rings.

you should leave your entire trip in one thread. Three threads might get some important info missed.

Oh yeah, file them just enough to fit in the cylinder with a small amount of clearence between the ends.

Do u mean in the gap? Those ends? They don't touch when compressed (the ends) so how will that help?

Good point on the linked threads. Thanks. I need to start a journey thread.

Yep. The gap between the ends of the rings when they are slipped inside the cylinder. just the ring. New rings can be a bitch to compress with just you're fingers.

No need for a new thread, just continue this one.

So... I'm not sure you are getting me. If I put the top ring in and push it in in only one spot, it is too "tall" to go right to the wall of the OD. So when I use my compression tool it doesn't squeeze it tight enough to allow the cylinder. The ends have a 1/4-1/2" gap between them.

Maybe I don't understand you? I did file the ends but it makes no did to the isue as far as I can tell.

pictures please

Ok, thankfully have a 24 hour laundry matt beside me which has allowed me to get on with my laptop since it died last night! (the lighter not working/powering our inverter is a project for another day!)

Here are some pics, the ring sits out about 1/16th of an inch. I used pretty good force this morning, using a piece of wood over the end of the cylinder and wacking it with a, um... rock as I don't have a hammer ... and it didn't budge. Don't worry, I tried and stopped after a couple of hits. Egad!

Anyway, here they are...my lovely location, and the cylinder in place, trying to go on, and the ring up close with a measure...

edit: detail pics in thread below..

better description:

MUCH better pics... sorry.

Ok. I'm with ya now. It appears you're ring is too thick, but you said the other went on ok. Pull the ring off and try to insert the outside of the ring in the groove to check for proper thickness. One little speck of debris in the groove will give you fits.

It appears to be flush on the bottom 1/2, but like the pics on the top half of the piston?! Weird.

If you compress the ring and place it in the cylinder( without the piston) and there is end gap filing won't help, don't file the surface contacting the cylinder wall or it will never seal.
I would check the groove where the ring sits, probably dirt keeping it from seating. You could check it against the old ring if you still have it, see if it wrong size but if one went together probably dirt.

Good luck
Jeff

Should I pop down to the auto store (open at 7am thank God!) and pick up a file to work the ring slot?

The old ring was worn right to the piston, didn't come out at all.

Either your ring compressor is catty wampus or worn out and not compressing the ring as it should, wrong size ring (which I doubt as the top one fit), the ring groove has trash in it, or your not holding your mouth correctly If it is really tight in there and you suspect that the compressor is misaligned you could go to the hardware store and get a large hose clamp, instead. Someone here will step up and assist if your close enough. Good luck, buddy!

EDIT: Are you getting the compressor on squarely or just squeezing it and calling it good? It really helps to get a good square position before compressing.

If the ring is free in the groove, flip your ring compressor around 180 degree and try agian , tighten the adjusting knob.

No, that is a good way to ruin your pistons.
I would be looking for a build up of carbon in the ring groove.
I don't recall ever having a used piston that did not have carbon built up in the ring grooves. With the rings just sitting free in the ring grooves, you should be able to put a finger at any spot around the piston and push the rings all the way flush. If the rings won't seat all the way into the groove there is either something in the way (dirt, carbon, ?) or the rings are wrong for the piston.

Jim

!/4" to 1/2" gap seems like an awful lot to me, then again I have never rebuilt one of these engines. I seem to remember something about a few thousands ring gap .015 - .020 ".? And it does sound like you have a build up of carbon in the piston ring groove.
Tom

The old rings come in pretty handy for cleaning the grooves of burnt carbon.

NOT FOR A NOVICE: Tough spot, but shove a wad of blue towels into every crevice and blast away with brake cleaner. I would normally NEVER recommend this, but you have to clean the gaps and I don't think you can get a ring groove cleaning tool in that space/could be wrong here.

NOTE: getting the brake cleaner anywhere near the piston pin or any bearings will mean you need to completely disassemble the pistons/clean/re-lube and try again.

Wish I could be there with you dude.

Note AGAIN: Proceed cautiously if using that spray brake cleaner without protection on any other lubricated or sealed components, even the vapor can be a strong enough mist to require an oil change 100 miles after the re-assembly. I would change the oil/filter at 100 anyway considering what you are attempting and where...

Take the ring off the piston, then put it in the cylinder on its own, square it up and make sure you have at least a 1/8 inch ish gap, then take the ring out and without putting it back on the piston just push it into the groove of the piston and check that it sits below the height of the piston, after this it is just compressing it right and it has to go on. all the best.

I got it! There was 1/16" of carbon on the topside of the piston ring slots! I scraped it out and got it all back together.

Now i am running. Did a valve adjustment using directions...2turn after touching the valve on the screw. But I'm smoking A LOT. I know some will come out for a while. It is coming out the exhaust.

wondering if the bores are the same... maybe .030 over on one piston and cyl and not on the other and you have mixed them up?

dots to the top?

In my putting her back together, what might have gone awry that she's throwing smoke out the exhaust?

...don't forget to stop and change that dang oil Rad. I'm almost tempted to recommend you add some Mystery Meat, ummm, Mystery Oil and let her run a bit and clean her out again. The issue now is that you are putting highway miles on a partial break-in, works fine for old iron block Chevy's and Fords, not so well for aluminum... Stop and change the oil anyway next big stop if you have the cash... Clean the loose crap out as best you can when you uncap stuff - I recommend you purchase a small magnet on a stick and shove it "gently" up and around the innards when you change the oil - that's my 23 cents of advice...

If any of our recommendations work to get you back to Vermont, parts of your thread will deserve to be in the "Historical but Scary" section of the site...

Not s sure what u mean

...burning oil past the rings - A LOT. Remember that you are attempting a 70 mph break-in. Jake and Cap'n hopefully aren't reading this anymore without a bottle of Tums at hand. Remember that you drizzled some oil across quite a few hot parts and will see some smoke. Be nice if we had some more pictures here. Too bad you don't have a loaner IR temp gauge to review head temps under run conditions. Box fan pointed at the engine bay? What grade oil are you running? Sorry - OCD is getting the best of me...

The dots are your UP/DOWN guidance. Metallurgy and design of the rings creates a good seal as the piston runs up and down - OR, not if back-asswards.

Is there anyone who would be willing to let me call them? I really need to get over this hump and would greatly appreciate a chance to talk it over.

Thank you!?

Way to go!!!

My WAG is that the rings need to seat in order for the smoke to dissipate. Give it some miles. Changing your oil soon is a good idea.

there are dots punched into the flat of the rings, as you look at the piston the dots on the rings point to the piston top, this orients the ring in the desired configuration. then the ring gaps need to be oriented as in a clock face: top ring 10 o'clock
second ring 2 o' clock thew 2 oil controls at 3 then 9 position.

I'm getting A LOT of smoke out the exhaust & I think I did the valve job wrong. Need to find the right thing for hydrulic. I wS told 1 1/2 turns and if the valve moves then back out to no movement. Then I found if I backed off it always took less back. I realized the lifter adjusted itself inward. So then I just followed wilsons guide of 2 turn after seating the screw, but now it's running really crappy.

So that & the smoke are a real prob.

Wilson also noted not to go crazy over the position of the rings. I did set the top & middle opposite & the oil ring at 90 degrees to that. But smoke !

What sort of pics would help?

I'm not sure if I've lost anybody who can assist me in troubleshooting on the road. But I sure do need so help!

As noted, smoking is consistent. I have no power, I seem to have lost firing on 3&4 which were my strong cylinders before the rebuild. This seems really odd unless I'm just way off in my valve jobs. I noted how I've done them based on Tom Wilsons guide for hydraulic valves. So not sure how that might be mucking up. I'm starting to think my ring job was a bust. Due to lack of power. Oil pressure is good.

Compression is 1-132, 2-128,3-120, 4 I can't get to, but measured about 110+ after replacing that head. (don't recall it's specific).
It was 1&2 I put new rings on.

Plugs, 1-carbon on it, 2-clean, 3-clean, 4-slightly damp/oil.

All four sparking beautifully.

If 2 cylinders are not doing much/anything-what am I missing?

Rad,

Give me a buzz - I PM'd my cell # to you...

Be prepared

Do you still have the old rings? If so, break the old ring, Remove all the new rings from the piston, Use the broken ring to scrape all the carbon from the side and bottom of the piston groove.

You stated the old rings were so worn that they were stuck in the groove and did not move. They were stuck in carbon. It is very likely if you can slide the new ring into the cylinder and get a .015 feeler gage in the slot the ring gap the problem isn't the new rings it's the old dirty piston ring land.

Do you understand?

Ring side all set... on to proper TDC which I think is my present issue, and hopefully ALL of my issues wrapped up in one... we'll see

I managed to clean the carbon with a slick little sparkplug gapping file. The file part was useless, the sharp corner did it... def, if I realized, the old rings would have done it as well.