I'm viewing the great valve adjustment article over at pelican & have my one wheel off the ground to get it just right but I have no viewing ports into my flywheel.

How then can I get the tdc worked out?

I did the straw in the #1 cylinder trick too, put it in & note when it is most pushed out and before it goes back into the chamber... But it still feels like its not just right.

Thought?

I marked my fan with 180 degree mark painted a different color. Any chance you can drill a small viewing hole in the bottom of the Vanagon transaxle ?

TDC is not THAT critical for setting the valves, just take off the distributor cap and note which cylinder is coming up, turn until points open on that cylinder and then set that cylinder and move on. from your other posts your compression is good so valves are not your problem for lack of power or smoking, all you need is compression spark and fuel for power, the smoking may be residual oil in exhaust or leaking rings/wornvalve guides.

I followed these steps:

1) remove spark plugs and driver's side valve cover
2) insert straw into 1st cylinder and rotate wheel till straw is all the way up and both 1st cylinder rockers were out. Rockers have to be out to make sure that it's compression stroke.
3) make sure that distributor rotor points to the notch at 11 o'clock.

Hope it helps.
Mike

TDC is not something to worry about when adjusting the valves.
Get the rocker arm in question closed to adjust it.
To do this, look at the other side of the motor and turn the motor until the rocker on the other side (same valve type...) is fully open, which you can see.
Once the valve is completely open, the valve on the opposite side is completely close and ready to be adjusted.

forget what you have read and just think about it for a minute.
You have 8 valves in this motor, and you have four cam lobes on the camshaft.
The camshaft lobes are shared with the same valve type on the opposite side of the motor.
When one valve is open and on the top of the lobe, the other side valve must be closed and on the bottom of the lobe.
Then you can adjust it.
Read the above paragraph as many times as you need to till it makes sense.
You wont need to ask anymore questions about how to adjust valves once it makes sense...it will seem so stupid simple it will make you smile.

For your smoke issue and low power.
Rings have a top and bottom.
Top = facing the head
Bottom= facing the crankshaft.
They are marked with two dots typically so you install them in the correct orientation.
Rings have an angled edge that runs against the cylinder...so it matters ALOT that you installed them properly to ensure you ahve decent compression.

Also, on the rings.
They need to be very free in the piston ring groove.
They need to be able to expand as the piston moves up into the compression stroke.
the ring gap is critical...it needs to be set with enough clearance so you dont bind up that cylinder and break a ring.

If that is all done right, you should see enough power to drive it.
The rings will need to be seated but I doubt you will get a decent seat on those glazed cylinders....so just hope for the best.

I would still suggest that you tune it up, time it properly, and clean up the fuel system, filter change and all to get all the fuel you need.

Also remember the little things.
timing is 1432 looking down on to the distributor, clockwise.
The motor will run with the wires hooked up wrong...but it will run like crap.

Also, what type of fuel system do you have?
Carbs or fuel injection?
Lots of smoke and low power could also be a flooded motor.
It may be a fuel system issue now.


Rich

Really great reply Rich, THANK YOU!

I'll work with what you passed on, and see where I stand.

Any thoughts on why I may not be firing on 3&4? This is where the tdc issue came up.

Also, is 132psi too high for #1? #2 has 128, #3 has 120... #4 not sure as can't get there easily at the mo.

I just don't know about my rings on #1. I didn't understand the "top" which is written on these rings... foolishly thought that it meant top of piston as I was looking at it, which made no sense as they would all have the gap in the same direction. I'll pass that uncertainty on to the midnight parking lot jobs I've been stuck with.

Starting with adjustment based on your guide Rich, thanks.

I have some pics here, one is a shot of my distro. Note that the notch is 180 from #1, but all guides say that should align with tdc... just wondering if that is an issue. Want to know if I should worry about it or not.

Another is of the engine compartment...

It not possible to install the distributor 180 degrees off.
It is possible to install the distributor drive gear 180 degrees off.

The piston comes up top twice....
Turn the motor so the rotor points to that notch.
See what the valves look like on number one cylinder.

No firing on 3/4 might be fuel related....clean that carb's jets.

Rich

I only have carb feeding both sides.

Ok, so notch to which valve open. Got it.

you are at TDC when the Intake valve is just about to open.
Rock the motor back and forth to see it just about to open...then take a look at the rotor position.
From there, I would setup the wiring on the distributor to match 1432 from that point on the distributor.

Rich

Looks like I've been real close to tdc all along.

I want to adjust as you describe above. So I'll do that now.

loose is good, loud but safe, tight will make you lose power.

Rich

So, I have hydraulic valves. Tom Wilson says 2 turns in. I'll go with 1 1/2, as I've seen this as a happy middle ground.

Great detail in there guys.

Randy - After you get her going again, swap your fuel filter down the road as it was sitting how long? Try and burn all your gas in the tank before you fill up again, if she is running real crappy close to the end of the tank, you will possibly have"floaties" or other fuel/tank solids as well as syrupy fuel to the filter.

NO, don't worry about this now as you at least HAVE fuel - just make the note for later...

Wingnut86

Am I ok to just crank the shaft until the valve is about to engage, open, and the adjust right from there? As I did for #1 intake as you suggested?

That's what I'm doing. #1&2 done after stopping for a tooth brush & face clean break

for a rough setup, yes that is right

Ok, I'm adjusted. Now the firing.

I see in my earlier post that I mistyped. I only have one carb. So no cleaning one side.

What can I explore to uncover my no firing issue on 3&4?

I thought the setting for hydraulic lifters is 0 lash?

Tom Wilson says 2 full turns. But this article is the best of seen on hydraulic valve adjustments. http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html

r_towle... you've given some REALLY useful info, so, far... do you have any thoughts on the misfiring beyond cleaning the single carb... which feeds 1&2 fine, so I'll miss that for the moment I'm thinking.

How can I test for too much fuel, would that continue after running down the road after a bit, albeit roughly?

Spark looks good.

I think I'll pick up a timing light at the Walmart in this parking lot, and check that for a good tuneup, eh?

Check the spark plug wires, do you have a volt ohm meter? Check the ohm resistance of the wires. A high resistance on a wire or two can cause misfire underpower and if realy bad at idle'

I don't have a volt meter. I'm getting flush here and will buy a tool if it will really make a dif... but careful about it.

Spark is good, though the cables are not new. They were put in in May.

Thing it, these two were the strong pair before I replaces the rings on the opposite two. Very little miles between them being the strong pair, replacing the rings and now them not doing much of anything. Drove about ten exits in Phoenix.

can't figure what might have changed in there.

Randy,

If you want to verify the cable suggestion, take the cables off and walk into the Walmart electronics section or back in the auto area and use their off the shelf meters, their cost, to see if they are something you would want to purchase or not.

Hint, hint, nod, nod...

Remember to use OPT or Other People's Tools in a case like this

So,
You think you have the valves sorted.
What makes you think you have two cylinders that are not firing?

Take a picture of the motor with the distributor cap in place and all the wires hooked up please.
Lets take a look at two things.
Where is the rotor pointing when you think you are at TDC for cylinder number one....
Where is the number one plug wire in relation to where the rotor is pointing?

Intake valve opens....you suck in air..
Intake valve closes.
Compression stroke happens...piston goes up to TDC
Spark happens
Piston goes down on the power stroke.
Piston starts heading up, exhaust valve opens.
Exhaust valve closes, intake valve starts to open...
4 cycles start all over again.

So, given that.
Look at where the rotor is pointing when the number 1 cylinder intake valve is just opening.
Then rotate the motor through the intake stroke...with the plugs installled, you will feel the power stroke.
Watch the valve on number one
When the Intake valve closes..and you are coming up to the TDC portion of the cycle...show me where the rotor is pointed at that exact time.
Should be near the notch in the distibutor.

Do it again.
Intake valve opens
Stroke goes down (180 degrees of crankshaft rotation)
Stroke goes up (remaining 180 degrees of rotation)
Spark happens...this is when the distributor should have the rotor pointed at the number one cylinder mark...the hash mark on the distributor body.

The distributor is geared, it will only land on the proper plug in question once per all 4 cycles.
Watch the valves to find the TDC part of the cycle...
With the plugs installed, you will feel the pressure build, then release.

Rich
Rich

Rad,

Are you making headway?

Rolling towards Cali?

So, thanks to R_towle's great advise I rebuilt the carb and found that I had not secured the 3&4 intake manifold properly after the ring install... This was because I had only taken the right side apart, realizing I could do that to deal with the 1&2 alone. I had already loosened the 3&4 mani before realizing that. So it was an oversight on my part in a big way.

Rebuilding the carb found a lot of residue on the main valve. So flooding was certainly occurring.

This morning I followed R_Towle's advise again and changed my oil after driving only a few miles to get nice and hot, and get as much crap out of there as possible.

He and I worked together to get 3&4 firing and I'm firing on all four now.

After hopping onto the highway towards Flagstaff (north of Phoenix-the Cali trip is awash since I had to spend so much time in Phoenix , I noted that she was great in 1-3 gear with power, but in 4th lacked guts. I've then called up Doug's Bugs & Bunnies here- a GREAT shop where they helped me do a lot of fixing Saturday (had it not been a holiday weekend I would have stayed there and worked at it there for sure). Fish there suggested I call Wedge VW on the side of town I'm in, as they are swamped after the holiday weekend and Paul here told me to come in.

Presently Rich here has her hooked up to a machine to fine tune it... what R_towle & I decided was the best thing to do at this point and get it through it's last 10% that it can run in the present situation.

It's been one hell of an adventure so far!

HUGE thanks to Wingnut86 as well... he stayed on the phone with me for hours supporting me and troubleshooting with me.

I just flew out to Ariz to buy a vanagon and drive it home.

I spent three days in Phoenix rebuilding the engine in a few parking lots. PResently I am at Wedge VW getting her fine tuned.

I'll be on the road soon and am looking for support along the way should I need it.

Shops, friends, enthusiasts... anything.

I'll be going Phoenix, Show Low, Holbrook, AZ-Gallup, Albuquerque, NM-Amarillo, TX-Oklahoma City, OK-St. Louis, MI-Indianapolis-IN, Columbus, OH-Pittsburgh, PA-Albany, NY-Home to Johnson, VT via Burlington.

I have a porsche 2.0l in this 1980 vanagon.

Thanks for your support!

Pics are me replacing rings in one lot, rebuilding carb in another.

I just flew out to Ariz to buy a vanagon and drive it home.

I spent three days in Phoenix rebuilding the engine in a few parking lots. PResently I am at Wedge VW getting her fine tuned.

I'll be on the road soon and am looking for support along the way should I need it.

Shops, friends, enthusiasts... anything.

I'll be going Phoenix, Show Low, Holbrook, AZ-Gallup, Albuquerque, NM-Amarillo, TX-Oklahoma City, OK-St. Louis, MI-Indianapolis-IN, Columbus, OH-Pittsburgh, PA-Albany, NY-Home to Johnson, VT via Burlington.

I have a porsche 2.0l in this 1980 vanagon.

Thanks for your support!

Pics are me replacing rings in one lot, rebuilding carb in another.

Click to view attachment

so,
Can he get it running perfect?
Enough to drag it home to VT?


Rich

if not, he can add a NOS bottle and FLY the rest of the way

Good luck Randy...

P.S. Invoice is in the mail

RMD,

Any update on the repairs? Just wondering since you need to have spring retainers installed for both heads or chance push rod and valvetrain issues on the way home.

Also, might be good to ask them to verify the operation of the cooling flaps and leave any air conditioning on 2/70 until you get back to VT.


Dave

Did the heavy smoke dissipate?

My trip from Phoenix to Show low(where I bought the van & is en route with my eastern trip) was long. 4-5 hrs to get 190 mi. Mainly this was due to going from Phoenix elevation (1100ft) to show low elevation (7000) while returning a good 2000 each time I crested three mountains!

If that's not a test on an engine, I don't know what is.

I made it by 7pm and settled in for a bit of dinner & a movie with my son. In the morning I'll replace the carb, one of the big needs here.

But... Bad news is that I have a serious oil leak that cost me about 7 qts over that part of the journey.

It's all coming out the side I did the head on-3&4 from what I can see. I'll run the engine for a good half hour tomorrow the. Wipe it down good and look for the source. I'm thinking lifter tubes.

I have 3 1/2 gallons of oil, thankfully Walmart has $10 gallons.

I'm not sure how to get those retainer rings to where I am, being that I'm nowhere long???

Thanks for keeping posted. If you see a puff of smoke drive by, it's probably me

Reach out here or on TheSamba and have a set of spring retainers, valve cover gaskets and oil cooler seals (jic) sent ahead to a hold for pickup FedEx location en route. Leaking that much is also starving your crank and cam bearings and raising overall temperatures. You don't want to replace another head.

There are several 914 guys in Albuquerque who could probably help you out. Most of them hang out on the NARP site. I'll PM you my phone # if you come thru Tulsa, but I'll be at MUSR this weekend.

Also, the Bughaus (one of the largest internet vw parts houses) is located in Tulsa. He's got about anything you need in stock.

New Carb pics...

just installed, going for a test drive:

Why the rtv?

Randy,

Go this way home....
Check it out...
http://www.914musr.com/musr/

He's out of Duct Tape...

<grin>

What's rtv?

I did one hell of a repair on the exhaust leak which broke

Now I just made a better than one hell of a repair

Problem is I may have burned a valve. Can someone explain the symptoms?

I'm getting crazy sputtering.

I may leave her in albaquerque. Sadly.

Who lives near albuquerque new Mexico?
Randy needs some help in person.

Rich

Room Temperature Vulcanizing silicone. The half-pound of red goop in your air cleaner. Generally frowned upon by a good number of people, but used anyway.




Bad compression on one cylinder is the primary symptom. Near zero, generally. It can cause all kinds of lack of power, sputtering, pops and bangs in the intake or exhaust, uneven cranking noises when trying to start, and so on.

Got a compression tester?

--DD

Made it to NM!!!!! Wahoo!!!

Cruising along. Will Check compression at next stop.

2.0 rebuild kit will have all the seals you need, including the push rods viton seals.

You have to have the head retaining springs for the valvetrain...

Well... Based on compression on #3-70lbs, down from 120... I guess I burned a valve.

If I can find an Albaquerque friend I may keep this going. Otherwise I may just book flights.

Any one willing to share a shop space to keep us going?

Posted: Today 12:09 am Post subject:
r_towle wrote:
Keep the faith, you are in the right place at a junkyard.
Get Everything you need...and then some.

Rich


Thanks Rich.

I just tore the entire engine down to the short block. Had help to hone the cylinders, and pistons, got new rings in all around and even replaced a couple cylinders and pistons.

Have it back to heads... don't have the retention springs for the pushrods still

I'll get the rest back in place in the morning and we'll see what my compression is like. It was 1-40, 2-80, 3-70, 4-80 this morning... yikes.

This IS my last horah on this trip, either I start making tracks, or leave it as far as I get tomorrow and fly home. I am truly exhausted at this point.

Thanks for all your advice everyone!

You're not likely to have good compression on a fresh assembly, the rings need to seat to the cylinders. As hard as it may be to do, you need to drive it easy for a few hundred miles while it breaks in.

Good luck.
Jim

Randy,

If you can run it in the car for an hour or so this morning before you take off it will help a great deal (keeping the RPMs stable). 2 hours is preferred to start the proper seating of rings/cylinders and seats.

You'll want to sit down for this next one.

You have to readjust the valves after this break-in period and then change the oil to fresh. If you are running solid lifters now, it's not optional. With hydraulic ~... Remember she will still be loud during this period and checking compression after 100 miles should return higher and hopefully more stable numbers. 1st 500 miles is basically: Check compression/change oil/check & clean screen and lastly it wouldn't hurt to swap the tranny oil at 500 miles based on all the strain the motor has had on itself and the transmission...

Piece of cake.

Seriously Dude, ever consider a job in a Lemans pit crew?

Hang in there as you are way better than you were Saturday night with twice the balls of most of us.

Dave

So, I spent two full days rebuilding the engine under the watchful eyes of some experiences VW'ers and type IV folk in Alburqueque NM at the VW co-op... run by JP Henricksen, a very kind and helpful VW old schooler.

Today I have been 300 miles with 200 to go. I've lost almost no oil.

I seated the rings last night using a "quick" method I'm sure plenty of folk would not agree with, but in my case was the way to go for sure.

I packed all that air movement with about four pipe insulation lengths from Lowes for $10 (I have a few left over if any burn up or fall out).

She is running REALLY sweetly. Cruising at 55-60 smoothly.

I did change the oil after about two hours running and will again in the morning.

Thanks for the tips all!