I have new A/F meter from Summit racing ,
my car is a 75 2.0 d-jet that has SSHE and a Triad dual exhaust

1. where do i put the O2sensor - where to have the guys weld it

2. i think the electrical hook-up is pretty easy, but if anyone has done this and has suggestions or advice before i proceed, please do so!!!

Thanks

Phil

Since the experts are not replying .... here's a non-expert statement

I was always told to put it near the head in the downpipe so it heated up quickly.

Now if you can tolerate waiting a bit for the exhaust to get hot, I was going to put it where the two exhaust pipes come together (depends upon the system you are running).

It will read incorrectly until it is up to temperature and I don't remember the temp it has to be.

I don't know your system but what Slits just said does not apply if it is a heated unit. Some of them have a wire that heats the sensor. Mine is located after the pipes join on the header. Ask Chris Foley directly. He is pretty much the only exhaust expert on the board... He welded mine in on my Tangerine header.

i put mine right after the collector. where all 4 tubes come together.

The WB sensor is heated. It does not need to go close to the head. Mount it on the collector on the top or sides. Do not mount on the lower/bottom of the collector. Water will collect in the sensor and destroy it.

Great, thanks for the advice. Hope to take care of it soon. I have a local shop that specializes in 911's, race preparation and even ground up restoration. He has helped me with a few things already.

I am hoping I can install next week!

Here is a picture of the gauge. $200.

OH YA! youll be real happy with that. i had to build a timed delay circuit for mine. if you have problems with error codes give me a shout. the timed delay circuit will solve it. mine has worked perfectly since i installed the delay. innovate will tell you it needs a heat sink if acts up but they are wrong....are you carbed or fuel injected?

What are you doing Phil?

Thanks for the heads up. I have stock f.I. in a 2.0 -d-jet, but if I rebuild and go 2056 or 2270 I will still go f.I. so I figured I would still use this to help tune. I am running too rich now and want to adjust the mps,

Was your rime delay circuit in order to delay start up so that the sensor was hot? I thought they had a built in to do that but I guess not?
We'll let me know how you did that!

Phil

no, your wideband does have a built in heater. i am using the older analog signal gauge. yours is the new digital signal gauge. but you still may run into the same problem. i made this bad ass heat sink from a copper plate per innovates recommendations and it still threw the error codes. so with the help of one of the guys on the innovate forum, he had me build a time delay circuit. about 30 dollars worth of parts from the electronics wherehouse.

the new digital gauges may have solved the problem already but i guess we'll find out with yours. for whatever reason at start up, our cars electrical system the alternator combined with the current rush from the starter will throw the wideband into an error code.and innovates answer is to build a heat sink and if that doesnt work then to replace the o2 sensor. right.....at 60 bucks a pop. no thank you. so you can build a simple time delay circuit. i have mine set to about 45 seconds.

now after i turn the ignition on, the timer starts its count down. 45 seconds is plenty of time to get the engine started and smoothed out. the the widebands heater function kicks in the the gauges starts metering. problem solved....if you soldering skills are adequate its a piece of cake....of i could build one for you if you need it.

let us know.... im curious to see if you have problems. and more curious to know what your A/F readings are with your fuel injection. you want your A/F to right at 12.7-13.0 at WOT. and cruising speed or 1/3 throttle position to be as lean as you can get it. with very little load, you should aim for 15.1-16.1-17.1 your engine will let you know how lean you can go before it starts protesting. that will yield you best m.p.g. i am carburated and i am getting right at 40 m.p.g. with a perfect 12.8 WOT

you can only get so lean before you start going the other way. what i mean is at some point you will be using more throttle to get the car moving at part throttle and that will start cutting into your mpg. its easy to see it with carburetors cuz you'll be on your mains before you know it. its a balancing act.

good luck and let us know your results.

one more thing....your timing will play a big roll in your tuning. a/f ratio and timing work as a team. its not like you just set your timing then tune the FI to that timing. you will set the timing then tune, reset timing retune and so on till its perfect. thats how you get some serious mileage and performance. i hope your not using a 009 dizzy. you will go in circles if you are.

I've been running that gauge since 2006 with no problems
its a great system
I have it hard mounted into my race car


I also use another innovate tail pipe system as a temporary on other cars with the hand held meter

You'll love it
I've done a few MPS tunes with them
you shouldn't need any "timer delay" or have any problems
brant

sensor must be between 9 o clock to 3 o clock (never pointing down) O2 sensor is required to be warmed up before running it. never run the engine without powering the o2 warm up circuit, this will shorten its life.

if that comes with the LC-1 controller, you can program the sample rate to be slower and give a smoother, less jumpy reading. (sample pulse delay or pulse averaging)

I forget what a triad looks like. perhaps post a picture. the LC-1 sample rate is fast enough to see individual cylinders making for a jumpy unreadable gauge. I would place it where i can see the sum of all 4 cylinders

ps. the software is easy to use and free download on their site

I ordered the same gauge from Innovate yesterday plus the gauge holder that replaces the ash tray from Rennenmetal. I know she's running rich from looking at the spark plugs. I'll post the numbers once I get it installed and maybe get some lessons learned from the group on tuning. I'm running a 1911cc with IDF40s. I would love to get 40mpg; I'm currently getting 21mpg.

Hi Brant -
How do you monitor each side being you have dual exhaust?

On the race car I'm really only monitoring one side.
I could potentially have a problem on the other bank and not know it...
but since I'm using it for jetting I still know that the jetting is correct for one bank, and I use the same jetting on the other side.

brant

I've had my LC-1 installed for two years after I built my carbed 2056. I mounted the bung just after the collector on my Bursch exhaust. The unit itself is installed underneath the car in the back right side. The harness goes through one of the grommets in the rear engine tin into the engine bay. That's where I mounted the LED and reset switch. I've got the gauge mounted next to the center console. No issues to report so far. Works everytime.

You really want a system that datalogs if you want to fine tune. The gauge is really only good for monitoring and rough adjustments (primarily at idle). Innovate has a handheld unit (lm2). That has a quick mount accessory , a holder that holds the sensor just inside the exhaust tip, as long as your pipe is not to big you can get an adequate reading. On my 930 the sensor is mounted just after the turbo, right before the muffler. I get great readings frome there.

no kidding...... dang i had nothing but problems with mine. i had to build a heat sink to no avail. swapped o2 sensors from with my lm-2, updated the firmware.i tried everything and kept getting the error code. my last resort was the delay circuit. if that didnt work i was gonna yank it. because it was useless.

you must have gotten a good lc-1

but its also good at WOT readings also. thats where the real damage occurs. its way better than trying reading plugs

The MTX-L gauge has the capability to output a data log to a laptop. That was a selling point for this model so that I could have a permanent gauge plus the ability to log data for tuning.

very nice. its like it has a built in LC-1

• The only 100% digital wideband air/fuel ratio technology!
• Water Resistant 52mm (2 1/16”) round dash-mountable casing is perfect for automotive, powersports, marine, and demanding racing applications
• Built-in Direct Digital™ Wideband Controller reduces wiring and simplifies installation (No LC-1 required)
• Wideband O2 Sensor is compatible with all fuel types (Leaded, Unleaded, Diesel, Methanol, E85, etc)
• Ability to calibrate O2 sensor for increased accuracy
• (2) 0-5v fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with engine management systems “closed-loop” and external dataloggers
• Interchangeable faceplates and bezels: Black and silver bezel, black and white faceplates included
• Large digital readout and programmable “Digital Needle” provides the functionality of a needle style gauge with the pinpoint accuracy of a digital display
• Datalog using LogWorks on your PC
• Serial IN and OUT ports allows for easy

Sean,

thats what i thought, i says in the manual that it heats up when connected, takes about 60 seconds to heat up, and that un un-powered sensor will be damaged-it needs to be powered up if installed when the car is running.

so here are a couple pictures of the triad exhaust (this is 2.0 motor but since i had 1.8 SSHE's i got a 1.8 triad , at anyrate you can see the main collector is center and lower, then at the center it goes up then separates right and left.

i was thinking that a good location for the sensor would be the back center of the lower collector ? what do you guys think?

p.s. the mess on the back of my muffler i partially road crap and ever since i changed my transmission fluid - it was old and low, ive been leeking and i'm not sure where from, but its gotten on the muffler ( if it isnt one thing its another!!!)

phil

Sorry for the hijack, but how is this one different than the K&N A/F meter?