The engine compartment plumbed and the temperature sending unit installed into my speedometer block-off plug.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Thanks for sharing. Great looking set up

Chris,


my race trans builder switched me over to heavier lube about 4 years ago...

I know I know everyone says not synthetic
I've been using them for 20 years though..

so we went from the mobil 1 75-90
over to the mobil 1 90-140

brant

Thanks, I've done all I can to make sure it stands the test of time and vibration. I really hate rework due to poor engineering. So, the interim report.

After roughly 1000 miles of both spirited twisty Arkansas roads and 70 mph highway driving. I mean it... I never exceed the speed limit. Track report when I can get to one.

Temperature: average 150F - 170F (synthetic)
Pukeage: I expected some but it's as dry as a bone
Pump volume: ~ 2.5 gpm

Observation:
1. Works better than expected. Frankly, I'd rather it ran a little hotter.
2. Changing the fluid is a breeze.

I may relocate, or add another sending unit closer to the R&P/gear stack to test whether the box is hotter up there than at the back of the transaxle. I won't do this immediately... too many other things to do. But I'll update again with the temp-delta if there is one.

Note: About the sending unit.
To have one less place to leak fluid, I drilled the hole for the sending unit dry, so it doesn't contact the trans fluid directly. Then filled it with salt water as the sending unit was screwed in.

I am planning to do something similar. Been taking forever to get the time to do it, but finally got started last weekend.
I like the simple approach like this. My only concern is still when to have the pump turn on. manual is fine, as long as I remember to turn it on.... Some guys have told me that since the engine needs a warm up period anyway, just wait until the engine is warm, then flip the switch for the cooler pump when you head tot he track. While in THEORY that works, I just don't want to forget and end up overheating when I have a cooler installed but not running...

hmmm....

This geared pump has no trouble at all pumping even cold fluid at more than 2 gpm so turning it on at the beginning of a run isn't a problem. As well, since it's a constant duty pump it won't matter how long it's on. That was a perk over the intermittent duty diaphragm pumps.

I considered installing a thermostat but I like simple systems.

One thing I am going to do is replace the 90 degree AN fitting on the pump outlet to a 180. It'll then run toward the right sidewall and be easier to batten down. The more I looked at this installation the more I didn't like a hose just going out into the engine compartment subject to vibration.

Guys,
For those using the Tilton pump, how noisy is it? We turned it on to test and it's REALLY loud. Not as loud as the engine, but loud enough to sound like there's something wrong with it.

I thought it was the mounting, but even holding it still against the rubber mounts doesn't change anything. I even thought that once it primed it would quiet down, nope. It's working fine, pumps the oil ver well, but just really loud.

thoughts??

Ok, since I haven't seen an answer to this noisy-pump issue....

Considering how loud even rotary pumps are in a car with most or all of the sound deadening removed, I'd bet the pump is just fine. Every one of the diaphragm pumps I've used (some in fuel applications) is the same way.

I'd run it and listen for anything that changes. If I'm right about that car's usage you aren't running it more than two hours at a time, which is the Tilton time limit they state as the outside (per a Tilton vendor I talked to while deciding on a pump). On that point.

If anyone can point to documentation about that I'd like to actually see it in writing. Preferably tied to operating-temperature limits.

Have you learned anything different?

This has been a REALLY useful thread guys. Thanks.

I am just about to go down this route of cooler and spray bars on my gearbox after experiencing the same problems mentioned in this post, I.e. difficult shifting once the box starts to get real hot and now the synchro for second is needing replacement. I have the same causes - spirited driving with lots of shifting due to the nature of rallying and the shorter gears (4th is now my 5th), powerful engine, Guard LSD, and to make matters a lot worse.... A skid plate. That last part basically stops any decent air flow cooling the box down and worse... Keeps the heat from the exhaust reflected back up cooking the gearbox.

Anyway.... My concern is regarding the choice of pump to go for. The Tilton says it should only be used For intermittent use, I think it was mentioned here, no more than 2 hours constant use. I was wondering if the RB Racing pump has the same limitation? 2 hours constant use is sorta ok but longer would be a lot better with my application. My plan is (was) to wire it up to the fuel pump 12v supply so it comes on with the ignition.

The RB Racing pump is constant-duty so run it until the cows come home. It's interesting that Mocal now sells the RB Racing pump for about $25 more than RB does directly.

I hadn't heard that the Tilton had a 2 hour duty limit. Shouldn't be a problem, but I found that I HAVE to run the pump now...it seems that the trans fluid is bubbling up through the vent and into the trunk area (where my vent goes to) if I don't run the pump...

You technically overfill the transmission with fluid so you can fill the pump, lines and cooler...which all drain back into the case when not running. I'll probably move to Swepco or something synthetic once I know everything is working right...still dealing with an issue in the trans and had to take the engine out because of a BIG oil leak...

I finished my complete install and will be testing it (with a gauge) at coronado this weekend...


an experienced porsche race shop recommended running the pump at all times to the ignition switch for exactly the reasons you describe.

the trans is overfilled and only by running the pump does it drop down to the correct fluid level.

The time limit was something a vendor told me and normally it wouldn't be a problem except in a street car during long trips. But he also said they were working on a constant-duty version of the same pump. Don't know how that turned out since I went with the gear pump which, in a perfect world won't take any maintenance. Considering we can hear our pumps so clearly I figure it won't be hard to hear when one of them fails! About the backflow, I did two things to make my system not dump much back into the case.

First there is a sensitive backflow valve at the pump inlet. RB Racing even has one that triggers at .5 lbs. Mine (Steuby Engineering) triggers at 1.2 lbs which is fine at it's height. The second is that my cooler is vertical, so it will never dump it's oil into the case. So far I have no pukeage at the vent, but I haven't done any track days either. I'll report back on that. I still haven't installed the overflow tank because the car is in the shop for bodywork and paint.

Double post deleted...

I added pictures of my finished cooler install into my build thread
I put a gauge in and ducting so we will soon know what its doing
looking forward to arriving at coronado Island tomorrow and testing it out.......

my last tranny died after 25 hours so it was time to try something


my cooler install here

Great job Brant

What pump did you use? Would be great to hear how your testing goes. A temperature comparison test back to back would be great, one with the pump on one with it off to see how much the arrangement is cooling everything by.

I'm gonna take a look at my car today to see where I can mount my cooler. I can't put it where yours is as the silencer is in the standard location, and I've cut out the heat shield for weight saving so it gets real hot right there. Hot enough to melt plastic ( ask me how I know )

Nice build Brant. Specs on that pump from your pix. SHURflow 8000-543-936.

http://www.hypropumps.com/FileAttachments/...HURfloPumps.pdf

Hey, Ron. What was the part number of the pump you got from RB Racing, I'm gonna go with their pump. They seem to know their shit. I like the way they talk on their website, right up my street.

Cheers

Moggy

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm (table at the bottom of the page)

Mine's an 03-1034 which is the middle performance model. But I see their photos above the table at the bottom of the webpage have changed to show only two pumps. I wonder if they've stopped selling one of them since they're wholesaling out to Mocal now. I bought mine last Christmas and got it a few days before the new year. It was a surprise because they told me I wouldn't get it until a few weeks into the new year.

One thing to think about is that it comes standard with ORB/NPT fittings which I took off thinking I would use -8/ORB fittings to save space. But I couldn't find any from any source but RB. So I tapped out the pump boss on the exit side for an NPT -8AN fitting to keep the footprint a bit smaller. You can see that in the pic of the pump plumbing. It was not straightforward since I had to shorten the tap (3/8-18 NPT) so it didn't bottom out in the boss. The threads are close enough that they didn't get mangled at all... I checked that first.

The NPT/-AN adapters take up a lot of real estate so if you're cramped they will sell you the pump with -8/ORB fittings already installed.

Also this pump doesn't have an internal backflow valve and theirs is really sensitive. My pump is located high enough that I knew the 1.2lb valve would engage. I just thought they were a little proud of it for my taste.

They were helpful in the only question I asked, which was if the pump specs were the same if I ran it backwards... the answer was yes.

Good Luck

Brant

How did the testing go? any feedback, learnings... good and/or bad

Cheers

Moggy

things went really well
I did not play with different ducting/routing.
I was at sea level so it should have been cooling as well as possible with the current set up.

I ran 20degrees cooler than motor oil every time
the highest I saw all weekend was 230 degrees oil and 210 trans.

but I did not move the duct to see what improvement was to be had.

One thing I did decide, is that I must have been much hotter at altitude, with 2 drivers, and a 30degree higher ambiant temp.

I can only guess that I must have been 250-270...ish on the day I blew the trans in July.

brant

Thanks Brant

Great feedback

Hi, great thread. I am gathering the pieces now for my cooler install. I am still on the fence about using squirters/spraybar or just dumping the oil from the cooler into the differential end of the trans. I will use the drain plug as my pickup. What are you guys using for a spraybar/nozzels? I was thinking nozzles from a pressure washer might work. They seem to come in a variety of different spray patterns. Honestly i really have know idea what to use or how many. Anybody have any photos of your spraybar/nozzles? If there is another thread covering this please forgive me.

What's your application? racing? if so what kind? LSD diff if so what kind?

Here's some updated pics of my install all finished:

Thank you for the photos. What I am really after are pictures of the spray bar inside the trans....Right now my car is my daily driver with a 1.8L/4. I live in the Socal desert so my car sees daily high speed and high revs in crazy hi ambient temps. I am building a spare 901 right now. And after finding out the incredible prices for bearings, syncros, sliders, and dog teeth I have no problem spending an extra 700 bucks for a cooling system. I want this gearbox to live as long as possible. The plan is to go to a six cylinder in the near future.

Anyways. After doing some research there are a few areas I need to try to get the cool gear oil to. That would be the 4/5 syncros and the main shaft bearings.

You honestly don't need one. It is a waste of time and money for you, spend the effort elsewhere. You only need a gearbox system like this if you have an LSD you are working hard on track and you are on track racing for sustained duration. A street driven car will not need a system like this, even in the desert. If you are building a spare 901 (for whatever reason) just build it well. Job done. Hope this helps

I agree with Moogy.
limited slip differentials create heat
especially when the car is ran as hard as possible.

On track the engine is wound between 6000-7000rpm for 30 minutes straight and shifting 20times every 2 miles. The tranny is constantly under accelation load. There is no highway "cruising" going on

I wouldn't bother on the street
you are only adding weight at that point. Weight in the worse place (the rear) and weight that does nothing advantageous.