You carbon fiber bigots out there are in denial, and living in the past. You call it "ricey", only because the manufacturers sell to the largest market, the ricers. But, you damn well know you'd opt for all the carbon fiber options you could get if you had the half mil. to spend on a Porsche Carrera GT. How can you call it "ricey", the whole damn dream car is full of carbon fiber. It happens to be a technological advancement, not some kind of fashion statement. Yeah, I think the stuff looks great. I'd love to get enough people together to convince rennspd.com to give me a good price on a pair of 916 bumpers, a pair of hoods, a rear wing, and to make molds for standard rocker panels, and a targa top. Maybe even some interior parts like dash top, bottom, face, doorpanels, center console, backpad. Stronger and lighter are two things you have to like. If you dont like the look, pad it or paint it. But, you can't look at a Porsche Carrera GT and make me believe you think it's "ricey". :finger2:

dood - who is this aimed at? did i miss something?

Carbon fiber rocks. My racing bike is made of it. Its fast and its strong. Its a stiffer ride than my Ti Cinelli was.. but still totally worthwhile.

Who said it was ricey? What does ricey mean? Are you implying that asians invented carbon fiber?

.
.
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The lure of Carbon Fiber components and structures is primarily due to their reduced weight, increased
tensile strength and deflection properties as compared to steel. Carbon fiber structures can be up to 75%
lighter than steel and 10 times as strong.
Brief Carbon Fiber History
The history of Carbon Fibers dates back to the end of the 19
th
century when Thomas Edison and Joseph Swan
invented a light bulb using carbon fiber obtained by carbonizing cotton and bamboo. This was the beginning
of the history of Carbon Fibers as we know them today.
Back around 1957 scientists invented carbon fibers from cotton and Rayon.
A few years later in 1961 carbon fibers were manufactured from polyacrylonitrile (PAN) in Osaka Japan
which was the beginning of “high performance” Carbon Fiber materials. It wasn’t until 1971 that small
amounts of PAN Carbon Fibers were being produced for sale to industry.
By 1973 the first Carbon Fiber fishing poles and golf club shafts were being developed. By the mid 1970’s
high performance Carbon Fiber yarns were being used in the aircraft industry. Many industries embraced the
invention of Carbon Fiber yarns and thus fiber/epoxy components. By the early 1990’s Carbon Fiber anilox
rolls were being experimented with.
Today Carbon Fibers anilox rolls made of carbon fibers and toughened epoxy resins are quite common.
Carbon fiber tubes are made up of millions of individual carbon fibers that are wound over a steel mandrel
while mixed with epoxy solutions which cure to form the finished Carbon Fiber tubing. The direction that the
fibers are wound along with the epoxy chemistry used is critical in producing the properly specified anilox
roll for a particular application. When one considers reduced weight, reduced cylinder bounce due to
deflection properties and increased harmonic resonant absorption properties, Carbon Fiber rolls become very
attractive. However, they come with a price and are not yet ready for all applications

Not if you agree. But, I've found a lot of negative responses on the subject from other members.

It's ricey when you use it just for looks and is serving no other real purpose.

It's ricey when it is slapped on in places it doesnt belong or doesn't match

It's ricey when it is used where another much cheaper material actually works far better.

It's ricey when it isn't even CF (just a sticker).

There are many great uses for CF. I don't think anyone thinks CF in and of itself is ricey in any way. Just the way some people use it.

Demick

I made my door panel from CF, my first CF project. Was easy cuz its just a flat piece. I have other composite projects planned but right now I need to get this lump running again. I like mixing modern materials and technology with old cars or buildings, the juxtapostion brings out the best in both.

Not sure why you care what some others may think of your ideas. Just carry your own flag and I'm sure the likeminded members will find you.

welcome to the f-ing board, bob!

:finger2: :finger2: :finger2:


i have a feeling you'll fit right in, as contentious as you come off.

nathan

(has a carbon fiber shift knob in his 914)

So, you don't think it has any astetic value? I like the look. You're entitled to your opinion. The fact is, it's still lighter and stronger. So, there really isn't any application that could be considered "just for looks".

well, if you like the "ricer look" ...

says he who has a CF 911 dash in his 914 ...
Andy

Yeah, I'm just trying to rattle the cage, and beat the bushes. The only reason these parts aren't available at a reasonable price is because of the limited demand. If enough of us get together on this, we can create the demand.

I don't think anyone here ever said anything bad about CF bodyparts (not as far as I can remember)
Actually, pretty much all places that make glass fiber parts can whip out the same parts in CF (at a premium price), no need for special molds...
Those parts are made in the same way as glass fiber parts though, and therefore are not much lighter or stronger...

So per definition, they are "rice". Not that I care... I think it looks cool

Still, it is in no way comparable to the CF frames of the Carrera GT or a bike or F1 parts etc.
Those are indeed stronger/lighter, but they are also manufactured completely different (bring mega $$$)

Seen it. Beats cracked vinyl. I also like the looks of the stitched leather dashes. Some things are timeless. At $250, not much difference in price, but it probably weighes about half as much.

If made properly, (vacuum bagged) they are considerably stronger and lighter.

I think I need CF dots on my doors and hood vs the white vinyl ones.

Damn Bob you sure can stir up the dander around here. have oa couple of these on me. And I'll have one too.

I just tried to, after looking at the more successfull threads, get as much participation as possible. Seems you have to be confrontational to get a large amount of views around here. Thanks, I will down one right now.

For my dream 914 I've actually been thinking about a black 914-6, 3.2L engine, GT flares, carbon fiber front and rear hoods clear coated rather than painted.

I'd go for a 3.6 twin turbo. But, that's just me.

You've given me the courage to cover my car in carbon fiber, and to put on the neon lights and then I'll go cruising and pick up high-school girls!





Yes, yes, I'm an ass, or so people keep telling me.

Huh?

914

914

914

914

914

914

Oh yeah!....A CF "fart can"!

siverson - wow, on that first shot the teener front boot looked see-through! thought i was looking at a partially cloaked 914...

Looks sweet. Is that done with one layer carbon fiber, and the rest glass. Where from, how much?

Actually, I'm doing the targa top in CF for purely aesthetic reasons...stuff looks kewl in the sunlight! Two layers 'will' have the added benefit of stiffening the roof so it stops pulsing from the air currents. If the roof turns out like I hope, I might do the sail panels and roll bar top (instead of vinyl) to match (definitely aesthetic). I think it'd look good surrounded by all of the chrome trim. .....yeah...and the rocker panels too...oops, forgot about the duck tail spoiler!

> Carrera GT

Sorry, there is a huge difference between how CF was used on the CGT and how most "ricers" use it.

> Looks sweet. Is that done with one layer carbon fiber, and the rest glass. Where from, how much?

It's all carbon fiber, done by GT Racing. Do you really care how much they were, because I'm sure you think they should be half that price? In most cases, you get what you pay for, and 914 folks never seem to quite get that, and that's why vendors don't cater towards the 914 market.

-Steve

(p.s. They were about $650 per lid. http://www.gt-racing.com/catalog/gtr914.htm)

Wait, are we talking about the material? or the paint job. I saw a subaru with a carbon fiber trunk lid and an 8 ft spoiler. That is rice.

If you're getting cf panels, you better not have a stereo, air conditioner, an AUTO trans, or 4 matching race seats.

And for carbon fiber shift knobs... even the CGT uses a beachwood shift knob.

I think its universally known that carbon fiber is lighter and stronger in the right places, but ive seen some of the stupidist shit in carbon fiber.

The CF doesnt make a rice rocket, but it sure as hell makes it look worse.

Well said Matt

let me know if you do a targa top in CF. I would like a layer of Kevilar in it to make it stronger or is this nessary with new methods.

Bernie

Can anyone give an acurate weight difference between CF hood or trunk, compared to FG?

Yeah, seen it. My only gripe with them is they charge $663 in carbon fiber, and $463 in fiberglass. Rennspeed charges $250 for their fiberglass versions, looks to be the same quality. The way I see it they should be able to offer a carbon fiber version for around $450, everything being equal. A $200 dollar difference would make a big difference to me.

spoken like a true 914 owner

We got some C/F just for reinforecment,not rice

You might not see a whole lot of weight savings, but you could probably stand on it without it collapsing. A lot more strength, less flex, more durable. About 12 pounds instead of steel at about 40. I'm sure you wouldn't stand on it, but a steel hood will definitely dent if you do.

This thread about carbon fiber has me thinking about drifter jay. What happened to him? He would be wailing on this thread saying CF makes cars fast and furious...

I don't see what the big deal is. if you like the look get it whether it is functional or not. all this talk of "you need to have this car for carbon fiber" is just plain stupid. yeah, I bet the avg 914 owner sputtering around leaving a trail of rust is going to call a 993 (4 seater, AC, stereo, etc) or equivalent car "ricey" with the CF package.

Sure, but wouldn't it be nice instead of having to go through the trouble of welding in new longitudinals, to epoxy carbon fiber longitudinals in that would weigh less, be stiffer, and NEVER rust? Or maybe just replace your rusty trunk panel?

>> My only gripe with them is they charge $663 in carbon fiber, and $463 in fiberglass. Rennspeed charges $250 for their fiberglass versions, looks to be the same quality. The way I see it they should be able to offer a carbon fiber version for around $450, everything being equal. A $200 dollar difference would make a big difference to me.

> spoken like a true 914 owner



Right, since they are both "914 shaped", both fiberglass, and their grainy PDF photos look the same, they must be the same thing. You usually get what you pay for.

You have a gripe with the price?!?! I would have never guessed.

-Steve

Like I mentioned before, you can't use lay-up CF for anything structural
Nor can you "just epoxy" it together
It would also be a huge PITA if you ever got in a collision

Whadda ya think happens if a Carrera GT gets a good bang and the frame is cracked???
Whip out your wallet for a new frame, 'cause it's impossible to fix

Kevlar is supposed to make it stronger. But is mostly used to keep it in one piece when failure does occur. They add the flexable strength of kevlar to avoid having the stiff carbon fibers from shattering. Best of both worlds, so to speak. Desirable for things like engine shrouds and door panels, where you wouldn't want pieces flying around from an impact. At least that's how I've heard it explained.

do it. make a 914 cf frame for us.

There IS a lot of ridiculous carbon fiber usages. A targa top would be a great usage. You could have a stronger, stiffer, lighter roof. And, since it is so high on the vehicle, it would have a greater center of gravity benifit compared to, say, a set of rocker panels that sit below the car. Plus the fact it would be easier to take on and off.

i want a cf windshield, and carpet. and some cf seatbelts. and tires, too.

> do it. make a 914 cf frame for us.

And I want it at half the price of whatever you're asking.

(I can't believe I'm still participating in this thread.)

-Steve

Sorry Jeroen, but that is how they do it. The plys are "clocked" on a 45 degree bias from the adjacent layers, and the strength requirements of the part determines the number of layers. If there are extreme tension and compression loads in a structure, they throw some unidirectional plys in the mix for added strength and stiffness. An AV8B Harrier (hovering jet...cool) wing is entirely made of carbon graphite, including the internal structrural supports. The only exception is the fitting where the outrigger wheels mount, and the flaps and ailerons attach.

Amazing stuff carbon graphite. Light, stiff as hell, and a real bitch to drill unless you have carbide spade drills. It'll dull a regular drill bit in nothing flat.

Hey Nathan...they do have Carbon Fiber rims now.

-Britain