OK...I thought about putting this in the wanted thread (Apologies to the mods if this breaches rules, please delete if inappropriate)

Does anyone know where I can get an engine cradle for converting my 914 using the WRX engine and transmission?

I know you can buy from a few sources and mod to suit but my fabrication skills are lacking and i'd need to pass an engineering check here in Aus.

Any info/leads appreciated.

Renegade Hybrids for a nice drop in cradle or copy someone other custom design if you trust your fab skills.

Custom mounts for the suby transmission shouldn't be difficult. Custom axles will be required though. Search suby axles on here.

Thanks but I believe even the renegade one needs modifying when using the subaru transmission.

Wasn't a member here working on those? Maybe it was precision chassis?

I'm sure this guys work will pass any engineering check. Some of the best work I've seen yet. Don't know if he has done a mount for the subaru engine and transaxle yet.

precision chassisworks

Bob

I am just about to start production on the cradles, below is a shot of the prototype, its just tacked together and missing a few laser cut pieces, but just to give an idea of what it's going to look like. This cradle will work for both the 901 and Subaru transmissions, with no cutting to the rear trunk (unless you have a turbo mounted in the stock location).
Also in the photo is a back plate for the 2wd conversion of the Subaru transmission, which are at the machinist getting pretty. not pictured is the 2wd locking spool and custom Sway-A-Way hybrid axles that will complete the drive train kit.
-Ian M.

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Finally!! Someone is doing this!! No more RH as the only off the shelf option.

Competition makes your competitors more focused on their product as well as their bottom line

Thanks for doing this.

914World Group-By discount??

Ahh, nice.

I was wondering, what is it about the subaru transmission that prevents the stock turbo location with your cradle? Does the renegade up-pipe provide enough of a move to allow your cradle to work?

It does, but one thing to look out for is that the cradle doesn't block something important (like the oil filter) when installed. The renegade one does not and the one posted above looks to have plenty of clearance too. I want to say that there is/was a cradle from smallcar that had this problem, but don't quote me on it.

I'll be modifying my renegade cradle when I get around to the suby trans, but that is only because I already have it and I have some fab skills. I'm definitely not knocking on the cradle posted above, it looks good!

Just waiting on delivery...

Or group buy

I have built two bars that bolt in and allow use of the 2wd Suby five speed trans. Since I now have a 4wd trans in the shop I can modify the bar to use the converted 4wd trans. Is there really that big a demand for one of these? Figured everyone was buying the RH bars.

Competition makes your competitors more focused on their product as well as their bottom line

A 3rd player.

As long as quality is never an issue, uhum, like some Hotlanta theoretical players, then this is a win win for the vendors who just jumped in.

Labor and prices are next

Brett, RH makes you buy the whole package and not individual pieces. That alone will create interest, especially with ability to use the stock transmissions.

I will be making an official release thread and a spot in the member vender section so I will try and keep this short.

Brett W: I really am not too worried about a massive demand; I didn’t get into this with dreams of grandeur trying to make my millions off of the 914. I was, and still am planning a Subaru build myself and figured if I’m going to do the fabrication anyway, why not go the extra couple of steps and make it repeatable, cause it seems like people would be interested in a complete bolt in solution (I know I was). Invested enough to make 15 cradles, right now and am going to be pricing them as low as I can, while still getting my money back, + enough to build more/expand if all goes well. This is kind of going to be like a 914rubber style set up, cheap prices, excellent quality, for the love of 914’s, not money.

76-914: I hadn’t really considered group buys because I figured I would just price it as low as was feasible to begin with, 500$ for the cradle, mount plates and isolators. But then again I may have to raise that price with the cost of the last couple laser cut pieces.

Pktzygt: The reason the stock position of the turbo doesn’t work really just has to do with the placement of the engine as compared to the axles. If you go low enough for the turbo to work, the engine will have a forward tilt to it and basically require a flush dry sump oiling set up to clear speed bumps. Move the engine forward and, at least with the Subaru trans, the CV will be at too much of an angle for me to be comfortable with. It may work, but you would be munching through CV’s pretty often.
Anyway, it’s a problem more easily/properly solved by a custom exhaust then a cradle shift. I don’t know if the RH up-pipe would fix it, as I’m not familiar with that set up and I’d really have to have one on hand to test fit before I truly know.

Oh and people, please don’t judge too hard on that prototype picture, it’s pretty rough, just needed the important clearances and bolt holes in the right place to make a fixture. It's a little embarasing looking back at it, but hey proof is in the pictures. Anyway, I will make an official release thread with prices and pictures.

-Ian M

Ian - you should visit Camp914, in your area.

Is there a decent shifting solution for a subaru transmission?

Rich

Thats my next project, cable shift set up for both 901 and subaru. But more importantly im going to custom make the shifter assembly to (hopfully) have a stock look/placment.
-Ian M.

Looks like a nice product.

Can you run the stock AC with this cradle?

I'd like to do a subaru engine for reliability, power and well integrated AC.

John

Yes. For fit/non cutting porposes I recomend that the intake is flipped. This usually means loosing AC/power steering but if done correctly AC can be retained... Ill post a video sometime in the future... just another project to get done... anyone know a good cloning program?

I just bought my Subaru EJ205 Engine and it came with a transmission which I thought was superfluous till I read this thread. Was going RH but now I think i may procrastinate as this looks very interesting. Great work, any timeframe in mind? No pressure ....

Being a true southerner, I'm for an A/C solution as well.

I'm really interested in this one as a one fits all solution.

I read a while back about a gent who had installed and was building 914 cable shifters, haven't heard much from him lately though.

Will this cradle allow one to use the stock shift rod with the 901 trans and Subie engine?

my928s4: The ETA is two weekends from now, at least on the cradles, the plates should be ready by then, but the spool and axles may be a little longer.

Partwerks:
No the stock bar wont work and honestly I have not even modified and tested a bar. I've eyeballed it and it looks like with some modification it should work. Figured if someone is going through the modifications necessary for the Subaru conversion, keeping the stock shifting would be a waste.

Again, this is why the cable shift project designing will begin asap.

I understand the reasoning for placement of motor due to cv axle angle, but I definately didn't ask my question properly. But i've since figured it out.


How are you moving the turbo? Custom up-pipe?

I have not done any building/testing in that regard yet, I have ideas though and there are options out there...

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There is a good amount of room in the front of the engine and Britian Smith has already done a good job of showing how it can be utilized

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Similar to Britian, but strait from subaru is the new turbo location for the Legacy GT. above is the stock header/turbo set up. however it needs a scavenge pump I believe.

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Above is more of a guess but I believe that a rotated set up could work as the turbo "just" clears the rear trunk, but the DP gets in the way (and you need one of those).

The last picture also shows a flipped intake manifold while retaining the AC by the way.

Again with exhaust it is pretty easy to come up with a custom solution that mounts anywhere.

-Ian

i have emails from RH that say the suby trans won't fit - they are closed minded to the fact that it does fit - thus this thread/vendor is very welcomed - i am disapointed in RH, and for RH, for dropping the ball on this. kudos to IM101 : ))

** AS FOR TRANSAXLE FLANGES FOR 108MM CVS
http://www.subarugears.com/ - and jake raby is a dealer of their stuff.

I think you're in for a lot of extra work and cost if you intend to re-position the turbo, that plumbing is more complicated than it might seem. Your cradle looks a lot like mine, so if you have any questions about clearances, dimensions, or want photos of anything specific let me know.

Build thread is in my signature.

Hey, Thank you for the kudos =), I don’t know the reason RH didn’t do this and is deigning its possibility (though I feel like it would be better just to say, we are not going to offer that, than stick your head in the sand), but a guess would be that the ROI of the 914 Subaru market is not very high, too many industrious guys who love to do work themselves and do things as cheap as possible. Kind of like Jake not offering air-cooled kits anymore, too much headache not enough return. The difference for me however is I’m not trying to make this a career, I’m just a 914 guy building the parts I need for my conversion, and doing it in a way that if others want them I can help them out too. I care less about ROI and more about sweet 914’s and contributing/growing a community that is pretty damn cool…





And this is why the 914 community is awesome, thanks DB Cooper I would love to get some insight; I will send you a PM. It does seem like there would be a bit more work involved, but some people really don’t like cutting the 914 to make it fit, I was more of saying it could be done. I should add to the above options, you can just cut the rear trunk, or a custom up/down pipe would probably be easiest.

Also, I am familiar with your thread, it and a handfull of otheres were the original inspiration for this project . Yes our cradles are very similar, there are only so many ways to mount the Subaru engine efficiently, I actually really like the design of your transmission mount, very smart. I was going to go a similar direction but with the added variable of needing a 901 to work I put the isolators at the body mounts (like the original mounts) and made the trans/engine mounts solid.
-Ian M.

For our project we used the Small car engine mount, we only used the two arms that attached to the motor and then connected them together with some angle iron and then bolted it to the stock engine bar. it required a 1/4" spacer to clear the shift rod hole b/c of the thermostat housing, but then we still had to grind down the top of the shift rod hole for more clearance. We could've just added a thicker spacer, but then the starter would've hit the bottom of the trunk. Here's a picture of our car from underneath and the small car engine mount:

Here are a couple of shots from my first run to get that ugly prototype out of peoples minds and give an example of the weld quality. Im really close, just need to tweak/finsih a couple of things and ill be ready to sell.

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any idea what shipping will cost - west coast to east coast.

i know via ups with them boxing - a set of sshe's run about $60 - and this is much larger.

im101 - nice contribution to the members here : )

Hey thanks man, for shipping UPS quoted about 75$ to Florida, I would assume it'll be similar for the rest of the east coast.

I bought those Smallcar mounts too, but ended up not being able to use them. They'd be perfect for N/A motors, cheap, simple and strong, but when you have a turbo motor you need to collect all the exhaust into one location as close to the intake as possible. With that mount you basically block the space in the front of the motor for the exhaust to cross from one side of the motor to the other in the front, and of course the transmission makes it impossible to do it in the back. I shouldn't say impossible, just more difficult, with a lot of custom tubing. Just a heads-up for anyone considering a turbo motor.

DBCooper. Do you have measurements for your cut out?

I was just hunting for a thread where someone else cut out the complete section welded in a brace then boxed in. (Can't find it at the moment, if anyone has it bookmarked i'd appreciate a link)

I am thinking this would give the best clearance in there plus could stiffen the chassis for all those extra horses going through the rear.

I was originally going to get a custom exhaust made up but i need to run cats for engineering cert to keep emissions down and being able to run standard exhaust would make that aspect much easier.

I am short on room in the garage at the moment and am hanging off getting my front cut delivered until I am ready for it. So if i could get the mods done to body ready for it, it would be easier.

Nope.. Return was fine but the hand holding was just too much. (and I had to free up capabilities to move forward into the Suby market in 2012 :-)

Hi,
With the cradle in the car, does the axle from the trans make a straight shot across to the hub?
Also, does your cradle use the stock trans mounting points with the 911 style engine mounts?

If so, I am interested in just the cradle since I already have the other misc parts.

Awesome work!

Nate (Pm me if you want to discuss further)

hopefully not as it is my understanding that some offset is what is needed to move the grease around in the cv.

Hi Nate,
It depends on the transmission that you go with. The 901 is located in stock location, the Subaru transmission axle outputs are positioned a little further forward, about 1.5” difference. This should not cause an issue as a slight angle is usually necessary for proper grease flow.

On your second question Yes the cradle should work perfectly well with the stock 914/911 style engine mounts, however the cradle will include 4 aftermarket mounts. I had to design it to fit both the 901 and the Subaru transmission, using the original 914 mounting points seemed the best solution to me.

thanks,
Ian M.

any concerns with the amount of cantilever or thickness of steel used for engine brackets. i ask because the the small car mount appears much thicker.

The pictured cradle is a prototype and the mounts have since gone through several revisions, they are now 1/4" with gussets to give lateral support and spread the load. I would bet the reason the small car mount is so thick is that their "cradle" and engine mount is the same piece that spans around 18" unsupported on one side. To make that span possible they had beef it up 3/8" thick.

Just to update, I’m still in process and hit a small snag. The original prototype ended up being a little too low, leaving the header and oil pan vulnerable. Basically it’s looking like to use a Subaru transmission will require some cutting to the rear trunk, not massive amount but a little. The overall height of the Subaru drive train is just too much to fit seamlessly. it could probably be done, it would just require a dry sump oiling set up and a really short header, which increases the cost quite a bit.

How I have it set up now the stock pan/header is tucked up enough to not be an issue, while still maintaining the ability of an NA Subaru>901 to be installed no cuts necessary, if you add a stock location turbo, rear trunk cutting will be required. If a Subaru transmission is chosen cutting of the rear trunk, to clear the slave cylinder and the starter, will be required.

Hopefully that solution will be acceptable; it is the best I could think of within the parameter of making it as universal and as easy to install as possible.

-Ian M.

Can't wait to order one and since no one else has said it, "Dibbs", I'll pre-order one if it helps with your R & D. I'm sure more will want to as well.

I don't want you spending to much money on your own dime for R & D when we all have plans to convert in the near future.

It just makes perfect sense to utilize a more attainable engine with more attainable replacement parts as well. I love the Subi Trans but I can't understand why it cost 500 for a cable shift solution from Cable Shift? The cost can't be that high when there are so many wrecked MR2s. If they would just lower the price then more would convert.

Is there any way to mock up the trunk cuts or theoretical bump that will be added to provide clearance for this retrofit? I have an old 72' part whore out back, I can make the cuts and paint some cardboard and mock that part up for images if someone can get me some numbers.

Measure twice, but, I can only cut steel once

falconfp2001; Thank you, I am doing ok with capital right now (as a college student I may or may not have access to lenders that offer low interest rates and a long payback period… to enable my education of course ). Also I don’t like to accept money until 24-48 hours before shipping, otherwise messy situations can arise.

I completely agree with you on the engine, really the only drawback I see is the cutting that is required but in regards of power, MPG, reliability, aftermarket support, maintenance costs, it’s pretty much a no brainer…

Wingnut86: I don’t have any pictures myself yet, but here is one from DBCooper’s to give you an idea, you may ask him to measure? When I get all the fabrication done I plan on making instructions for conversion for the exact measurements.

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Look what just showed up! Super amped to finally get these test axles in from Sway-A-Way, they are Subaru DOJ (inner CV) and 914 or 944 outer, 4340 chromoly, and the signature Sway-A-Way free floating style. All I need to do now is a test fit to make sure they are correct length and I’ll be ready to sell them.


(fresh out of the box)

BTW, on our conversion cradle you don't have to cut the trunk. This is using the Suby FWD only transaxle. As for the oil pan. Cut the oil pan down and use wings to make up the capacity. Its common in the off road world. If I can finish a few other things here at the shop I will grab this 2.5RS trans I have and compare it to the FWD trans in my cradle.

Those are good lookin' axles-- can't wait to see them complete !

I Think http://www.subarugears.com/index_files/Products.html offers the output flanges to adapt to the CV of your choice so you don't have to upgrade your axles. But of course that means the possibility of snapping the axles later. They were only designed for 200 HP not the possibility of 300 HP.