True, however the 500$ (more for exchange rate) flanges, require the use of a 2004 or older transmission (ones with the stubs on the front). Or for 100$ more they sellouts the Subaru adapter to convert the later transmissions to the old style, however you have to open up the transmission to do it, which I know I'm not comfortable doing myself, so extra labor to install.

Where as my custom sway-a-way axles will be 375$ a set, usable with any of the 5mt's and the added bonus of being upgradeable. For example if you started out running an NA ej25 in a narrow body with 4 lug Fuchs and 914 cv's. Later you get bit by the HP bug and upgrade to a turbo ej25, just upgrade to 944 hub/stub/CV and your set.

So basically less money and more versatile..
-Ian M

Why not use modified 911 axle shafts? Dutchman Axles will turn them down for $135/pair to fit Subaru tri-pod joint on the inner side, and they will fit 108mm Porsche 911/930 CVs on the outside. Both are cheap-n-easy to source (Subaru for the former and EMPI/GK/etc for the latter). The 108mm CVs bolt right up to 911 stubs/hubs for a 5-lug conversion, and the setup should be bomb-proof and be way cheaper than the SAW custom axles. See post #179 of Suby-Engined Rustoration for details.

I've been doing other things but just got back to see whats new. It's either here or club narp that there is a long thread about building cable shifters. Also before it's over and done you will probably want the obx lsd so you will be in the tranny anyway to switch the stubs. Also I think the starter and slave cylinder is in slightly different orientations between the push and pull clutch trannys. The turbo tranny in the earlier subys clutch is different from the na trannys clutch, I do know the 05 legacy turbo tranny is like the earlier na trannys with the pivot instead on the shaft. For me the short wide pan and short custom header is the way I will go. Lower center of gravity and more oil capacity. Turbo subys use oil. Still need to change the firewall in the trunk though but mine will look factory thanks to donor trunk parts from Mark Heard. If you ever go to a larger turbo the extra room will help with additional space and for cooling.

Glad to see someone stepping up to make a suby cradle for the masses though.

The axles will work fine BUT... be careful Subaru has a lot of different splines on their inboard CV. I've done 4 transaxle now with 3 different splines needed for the Subaru CV joint.

Which joint is the axle cut for? The tripod type with the sealed ball bearings or the older ones with the ball and socket set up.

Also when you get your transaxle pick up the axles if you can get them. If you have to buy the CV joints I think the only way to get them is with the complete axle.


Bob

Bob, drive that car over here so I can see it running.

Brett it is sweet with the EZ30. I even think it faster than the EG33. I'm putting the EG33 in a LE creamsicle I just got.

Enough of this hi jack. Sorry

Bob

Wouldn't it be easier for you to use Subarugears.com output shafts? They sell the whole kit to convert to FWD and use it mid engine.

Strawman:
Several reasons I decided not to go in that direction. My goal for this project is to try and make the most universally usable system, while also keeping the costs down for guys on budget builds. While the 911/108mm set up is strong that would force someone to run with that set up only, which would be an unnecessary cost for someone doing an NA/ ej22 or 25, and keeping it narrow body 4 lug. Also some guys have intentionally stayed with 914 CV’s opting for a “lighter fuse” for the drivetrain system. Furthermore the added logistical headache of constantly sourcing the axles from random places, shipping them to me, sending them to Dutchman, picking them up, and sending them off, is just time spent that I could be using for development.
Furthermore I’d be interested as to when you got that price, as more recently 2011 there prices have gone much higher (according to my friends and former employers at Metaltech 4x4, a fab shop had used them for years). Also the lead times for a product would be up in the air, for example last time I tried to get a quote and something that they already had made from them they said it would be 4 weeks for the former and 4+ for the latter. I couldn't just say to a customer, oh they out of stock, SAW say it will be a week more.

On the other hand with the SAW axles I get a set up that I can order and pretty reliably 2 weeks later get 10 sets delivered, that while probably not quite as cheap as re-splining, is less than the flange style, just as strong with and with more applications than both. Also the 108mm CV’s are bomb proof, however with the 944 set up you get 6 CV bolts vs 4 and for proof of their strength I would point you in the direction of Britain’s yellow monster, which has been running the 944 gear with no problems in full race condition, sticky tires, huge HP, for a couple of years now, (though I don’t know if he changed due to the recent lotus upgrade, that guy is nuts! ) But clearly enough strength for pretty much anyone.

Thanks for the question though and your build is amazing btw, awesome fabrication work!
-Ian M

charliew:
I have some good ideas brewing with the cable shifter, just need time to prototype but ill look for that thread, thanks.
I have several different style transmissions, the starter is in the same position, the slave is different, one is on the front lip of the transmission, push style, used pretty much universally except in the early usdm WRX, 2002-2004 which is located on toward the back of the trans behind the clutch fork by about 4”
Either way that shouldn’t make much difference. As to the obx, yes it is a great thing to throw in but some guys with lighter hp and less budget it is an unneeded expense.

Also if you want to go really low center of gravity, get a dry sump set up and I will sell you one of my two prototype cradles (that are too low for normal systems) for cheap. it would be insanely low!

Bob: Thanks for the heads up, I did do some testing in that arena before I went ahead on ordering the test axles. I made the Subaru joint 30 spline, which I tested to fit 05-07 wrx DOJ (wich will fit the trannies that need a CV inserted and is the tri bearing style) as well as early 95-2000 leagacy/impreza 5mt DOJ’s (the female style CV, which is ball and socket type). I didn’t get my hands on a 02-04 wrx DOJ but once I had a verified system for both styls of transmissions I went ahead and got the test axle made. I will test the wrx soon, but from what ive seen it looks like impresa/leagacy stuff is the same through the years. On the other hand I know at least a 2000-2002 forester DOJ’s will not work, as they are 29 spline and it can be assumed that all foresters may not work. However this should not be a problem as the DOJ itself is interchangeable through all Subaru years.
You are right Subaru no longer sells just the DOJ, you have to buy the full axle from them, however I don’t think that is necessary as used axles are cheap and the DOJ rarely goes bad. Plus I think 1st Subaru parts or one of the other online retailers for OEM Subaru gear still sells several of the DOJ’s separately.
Also can you drive over here too? I want to see it too

Falonfp2001: yes originally it would have been easier to just use Subaru gears stuff, but my goal was to make it cheaper more accessible/universal for me and the rest of the 914 crowd. Also read post #51 for other reasons.

Guys some new info on the axles, i didnt want to clutter this thread so started another, please feel free to weigh in
here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=185071

I'm interested in the Low cradle and would the low cradle be good for trying a EJ20TT install?

Well technically it will work for any subaru engine, just as long as it is set up with dry sump oiling system... which can be expensive... otherwise im planning on keeping the prototyps for future engine developments, like vw tdi or something.

something like this:
Click to view attachment

Wow, maybe the next car.

I'm very interested in this thread - I actually spent my afternoon today positioning my EZ30 for a cradle build, but if you're making something I can buy, I've got cash in hand.

I found that with the right selection of parts, you can position the whole system (EZ/EJ + modified transmission) very high and forward with no cutting. I can take pictures tomorrow if you'd like, but the gist is using '06+ parts, and a WRX starter.

It looks, as well, like we have the same ideas regarding axles. I want to keep the stock 914-4 outers and use suby inners. To date, I don't think anyone's offered parts that will allow this, as Porscharu's "magic flanges" require converting to the larger outer CVs. Again, if you've got parts, I've got cash in hand. Hell, at the point, I'll pay for your specs.

Anyway, I'm up for helping you do development if you're interested in a paying beta tester. Shoot me a PM.

Very interesting. I may not have to build my own cradle afterall. It would be great to see your final product. I am doing an EZ30 swap.
Awesome work!

Just a quick note - if you're planning on building the cradle to bolt directly to the engine (that is, use isolators between the cradle/chassis instead of between the engine/cradle), you're limiting your market to the EJ alone. The stock EZ engine mounts are liquid-filled three-bolt mounts, and are not interchangeable with the EJ's solid 2-bolt mounts.

The stock Subaru subframes, however, accept the same single bolt and locator pin across the EJ and EZ engines, so a cradle built to accept the stock engine mounts will enable either engine type (and presumably the BRZ/FR-S/FT-86's FA20).

Interesting, I’d appreciate a picture of the mounts (on the block and/or off) if you have one handy. If that is the case, I will have to whip up a little change in the design as I definitely want the cradle to work with the 6’s as well. Shouldn’t be too difficult, I can just make the engine mount points work with the stock Subaru mounts.

However that means that the production run on the cradles will be delayed until summer. I’m in my last two weeks of the term and what little free time I had, has evaporated into term papers and projects.

Actually now that I think of it, I think I like the dry sump system idea. Lets you go lower with the cradle and then you can have more turbo plumbing on top.

Actually you don't need to convert to larger outside CV's the 914's CV's work fine on the outside. I know DBCooper has his car setup with stock outer CV's - he calls them 'fuses'

Any updates? I just bought my roller yesterday and bought the suby a couple of months ago.

Awesome thread, you've got about a yr before I have paid enough debt down to start my project. I have ridden in DBCooper's car and that that thing is a monster. i hope in that yr you guys will haven ironed out all the kinks, I look forward to some advancements.

Im going to try and not jinx myself, but it seems quite close now... Im almost done with the prototype rev2 on the cradle. I had to go back and redo the mounts to be compatible with the 6 cyl motors. I plan to finish it in the next two days, and hopefully be able to set up for production next weekend, get all the laser cutting and tubing in early next week and do a production run of 10 the first weekend of august.

At that point i will be able to sell the basic drive line kit, including the cradle, axles, 2wd coupler (pictured below). The back plate is being a pain, the original machinist decided to move shops and had not gotten to the plates for months, so I pulled them and now am searching for another capable shop.

a shifting solution for the 901 and subi box is next on the list after that.

my apologies guys, going back and looking at my posts its laughable at how many times ive said, "really close, almost there," I promise at the time it really felt that way
Just seems like there's been setback after setback, starting a fab business is hard, who knew?!? but I'm still in this, trust me

Click to view attachment
single piece, high strength alloy, made here in the US (at the expense of any profit on the piece). really cool!

Cool deal. If the cradle is going to run about 500 then I'm in for the cradle. The drive line stuff can be purchased later but I think the cradle for the motor and trans mounts is the main concern of everyone here.

Frank

PS I'll even take one of the lower R n D cradles you made previously.

Any progress on the production run?

MAN IM PUMPED!

here is the update:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry1720249

Very Cool! Talk about upsetting the RH crew that said to me, " You can't put a Subaru transmission in a 914".