Now that i've got my microsquirt-based induction system sorted out (see the link in my signature), it's time to plan on building my big 4. I'm currently in the planning phase.

I've never built a type 4 or any other engine before, but i'm confident I can succeed with all the help and resources available. Based on my available time I may have someone build it for me but right now I'm planning on doing it myself because I want the experience.

I've read Tom Wilson's book, reviewed Van Svenson's amazing website a few times, bought and watched Jake's video a few times, read many threads on Jake's forums and many threads here.

The goal for this motor is something that's fun, reliable, has excellent longevity, very streetable, and DOES NOT LEAK... This may be a lofty goal for a first time build but I'm going for it. My car is going to stay 4 lug for now.

Target CR between 8.5:1 and 9:1. Intake will be the stock 2.0L airbox and intake runners, exhaust will be SSIs and a bursch or perhaps Chris' SSI muffler.

I'm going to build this motor on a separate GA case which I purchased from a member here...that way I can leave my existing motor in my car and keep driving and enjoying it during the build.

My current plan:

• Source some stock cylinders and bore them out to 96mm
• new 96mm KB pistons
• Jake's 9500 "super" cam kit -- cam, gear, springs, solid lifters, adjusters
• A welded 78mm x 96mm crank
• RS+ style heads
• New pushrods
• sealants + seal kit + front main seal + rear main seal + windage tray seals
• German Bearings

On to my questions:

• For machine work, I need to get the case checked and align bored, the stock cylinders bored, the rotating assembly balanced, and I think I'll have the machine shop cut and assemble my rods once I determine the lengths. Anything I'm missing?
• Van's website and some threads here reference a need to clearance the case for a 2270...is that required or only for certain combinations?
• Obviously there's a billion parts I need that aren't listed here -- bearing dowel pins, pushrod tubes, various fasteners, tin, etc...should I just purchase a core motor to pilfer these parts from or try and source them new / used individually?

Comments welcomed and more to come!
Rich

Just a few things to make life easier and make this stroker 2270c more fun with less fuss and muss. . .

- When you order a crank (or send yours out for stroking and C/W), be sure to have it done with VW beetle (T-1) rod journals. This will enable you to use readily available light-weight and strong, 5.4" T-1, H-beam rods. These rods are usually around $280 a set and come clearanced/balanced/pinned and with ARP bolts. This will also give you 22mm wrist pins (lighter). DO NOT even think about using a stock T-4 rod. . .

- Get the case decked and bored if needed first. You will likely have to do some internal clearancing of the case during mock-up, but if you use the H-beam rods, that can be kept to a minimum.

- Get the KBs with the 22mm wrist pins. . .

- It will be a LOT cheaper to source a core 1.7L motor and use that for all the little bits that are needed rather than buy the parts individually.

It may or may not help, but I have developed an engine build parts-list that is on my site here. There is also a down-loadable MS Excell of it here. It was designed for a T-1 style Beetle engine, but virtually everything is similar for these motors as well so it may be helpful to you.

You will LOVE the power of this motor when built. Hope this helps. . .

Go for an Elgins cam. Seen problems with Jakes cams (poor running). Elgins has much better drivablity on otherwise same motor. Elgins can give good advice on the build over the phone. Jake is spotty on advice. I have been thru the Jake system of no advice unless you buy from him,he dosen't want the resposibility of designing your engine so he said, so he will only advise on parts you buy from him.

The Elgins website has good tech data and the advice when you call is great. That alone makes a huge differeance, plus Elgins cost less. win win.


LINK:

http://elgincams.com/

Thanks Nate! I wish you were closer...you look like you have a really nice program and setup out there on the left coast.

"TOTAL ENGINE COST: $ < This is typically not a number you want your mate to see for obvious reasons!"

so, so true.

Can 1.7L cylinders be bored out for 96mm pistons, or is it preferable to source 2.0L cylinders?

Exactly. Why should I support the products of some other company? Also, all of our engines are ONLY created with our products and the experience we have with the products of others is limited to what comes into our shop as a broken engine, or core.

No free lunch, Unicorns or Rainbows here..
Rwilner, if you'd like to come our way we'd be pleased to assist you, but if you don't there are no hard feelings at all :-)

Thanks Jake. As you preach I'm still "doing my homework." Your store, sites, and video have been very helpful so far.

What's the saying...there's never time to do it right, but always time to do it again?

I'm very interested in doing this right the first time!

If I get into a jam I'll make Towle get his lazy butt down here and bolt some stuff together...

Rich

Actually there's a fair bit of internal clearancing of the case, you must mock-up the engine (with and without cylinders) a few times to get it right. There should be about .060 clearance from the crank/rods and the case, IIRC there should be no less than .040 clearance. At the same time you don't want to remove too much material from the case.

It usually takes me 2-3 mock ups before I'm happy.



No, you can use 1.8 or 2.0 cylinders.

Sounds like you have quite an issue with Jake...

That aside, I deal with a few people like him. My ATV race shop will not take in your bike if it's set up with other people's products. They don't know what Brand X products will work with their products. It just makes sense. If you follow their guidelines, the results are very predictable. They don't make everything in house, but they have their recommended suppliers, and specs for everything they use. Lots of specific part numbers as well.

Sounds like Jake's program.

PLEASE STOP! I don't want this to turn into a Jake vs. xxxx thread. If you don't like Jake, don't buy from him, I'm sure he's ok with that.

Anyway...clearancing the case is a bit intimidating. Can the machine shop do this or is it something I can do in my garage with a grinder / stone?

Maybe it would be better to do a 2056 for my first build?

Don't ruin this guy's thread. If you don't like me just call me up and tell me to kiss your ass. Its that simple and it won't bother me at all, I promise.

back on topic:
rwilner, a 2056 is a great first time build because you can use most of the original engine and not have to deal with the intimidation factor or depend on others as much.

The 2056 is a great all around engine and they are simple enough for a first timer to complete successfully in most cases. I'd recommend going 2056 and then in a few years stepping up the game a little bit. This way you have the confidence, knowledge and experience to do the job with better chances of first time success. Most first timers choose the 2056 and thats always my recommendation.

Hot VW's magazine did 4 articles on a Jake 2270cc build. They were

June, July, August and September issues back in 2006.

I've clearanced type 1 cases, but I let Jake handle this one for me.

I gotta agree with jake on the 2056 as a first time build. Maybe even with a stock cam. I spend as much time getting the valve train geometry right as I do on the rest of the engine. And my first time doing that was very intimidating, even as an experienced builder.

And the whole series was updated and included in this book released in 2011... We still have a few of them in stock at the Type 4 Store.

Get one of these cutters for clearancing the case. It's made for aluminum and fits a Harbor Freight air die grinder. Just use slow carefully pressure. When you're first getting used to using them, they have a tendency to skip.

Mark- that cutter looks to be for cast iron. Try one of these with finer flutes and always use oil when cutting aluminum so they don't clog up.




Mondello Head Porting

Ya got that backwards. The finer tooth burrs are for steel/etc. The coarse tooth burrs are for aluminum. I have MANY hours of using these guys on steel and aluminum projects.

When cutting aluminium try WD-40, one of the very few things that it's actually any good for.

That, and cleaning floor tile adhesive off your hands.

A friend runs a shop that builds custom canoe paddles from aluminum.
He uses only bees wax on all his blades and new gets clogging.
I used it after he showed me and finally found something that works.

Rich,

Do a stroked motor, the costs are about the same, and you just wont be happy with a 2056....it will only make you smile for less than 6 months.

Go big.

Clearancing a case is not terribly difficult if you can see....its a small area that needs to be dealt with, I can show you a case that is all done so you wont get scared...plus I have all the tools to do it.

For balancing with, use the guys in Boxboro, and balance everything you buy from different vendors in one shot...so its all balanced together...

Elgin has been making camshafts for what....40 years now...he knows his stuff and he is a specialist...

DPR Crankshaft.

If you really want it to last...get LN Engineering cylinders...just step up and do it...then the pain will be less over time with rings, oil etc...

I like to shop around once I know the parts I need and honestly Jake is competitive in pricing so do your homework on the price and you will be fine.

The LN engineering cylinders will be the largest $$$ decision you make...along with the heads.

Lots of shops local to deal with if you need.

rich

Yup, I got some hours with them on my heads for the bus.

You need to know the cam spec you're going to use in order to calculate the CR. The cam timing changes the dynamic CR.
Else, any number is as good as any other one.

I wouldn't say the costs are about the same. Just depends on how tight the budget is.

And I love the 2056 still. Easy and reliable. I'd be happy with either engine.

I'd have to agree with McMark on this point. A 2056 built right is the most reliable and satisfying Type IV motors I have ever experienced.

I could probably afford either but it's more an issue of trashing all that time and $$ if I screw something up...

Maybe a 2056 for round 1 and the 2270 for round 2...

Rob...coming from your with your monster 4...that's saying something!

A complete 2056 engine can be built for close to the same money that a set of proper heads for a 2270 cost.

I love the 2270 and today its basically all we create, but I kept a 2056 in my 912E for some good reasons, mainly because it was easy and because that same combo lasted me 160,000 miles and 8 flawless years of driving.. Its simple, effective and versatile.

I have had a lot of people asking me to sell them engine combinations now that we don't sell engine kits anymore and I might do that under some conditions.

Van has a nice web site http://www.ephotomotion.com/914engine/ that will show you exactly where to grind for the clearancing.

Hope this helps

DAvid

David
Thanks...I did see Van's incredibly thorough and helpful website and have clicked through it at least 5 times...I linked to it in my first post.

Van used his bridgeport about 15 times during his build and makes reference to rebuilding at least one engine prior...a 944. He's clearly someone who has the rare combination of talent and experience.

So I think I got hooked up with a core 1.7L motor, just need to find some core 2.0L cylinders to bore out now

the journey has begun!

I might have some extra core 1.8 or 2.0 cylinders.. They are equally usable for boring.

thx Jake, PM sent

Cleaned this thread up a bit ...

I'm only going to say it once: If you can't play nice, ya'all can stand in the corner for a while.

Thank you Andy

yeah. seriously

Like!

I have some 2L 96 mm KB pistons that are in great shape:)