I have a new 1911 with L-jet. It was formerly a 1.8L stock engine that ran good. Trying to do the break in cycle but have no fuel.

I have spark and air, but injectors won't fire.

I can however jump the relay and get the fuel pump to run. I can also move the flap manually at the AFM and that will also trigger the pump to run with all the stock wiring in place.

I tried all the tests at the manuals.type4.org website. It passes all the tests.
Only one test is questionable though.

** Measure the resistance between ECU plug terminal 20 and system ground at terminal 17. The reading should be 52-78 Ohms. Mine reads 5.9 Ohms. That would suggest the dual relay is bad, so I install a brand new relay and that one reads 6.9 Ohms. WTH?

What am I missing?

The L-Jet system doesn't pressurize the fuel loop like the D-Jet does. The L-Jet pump only runs when the starter turns and causes the flap to open in the air flow meter. If you can open the flap while the key is on you should hear the pump run constantly. Of course after the engine starts the pump continues to run.

Alright, I checked it out a little more after the wife hit the sack.

Injectors are not firing. Pump is working. So I'm down to the ECU and the resistor pack. The resistor pack is in great shape. No broken wires. Any info on how to check an ECU? I've searched all day long and can't find a thread that answers my dilemma.

I found this a while back when considering converting to L jet.
http://www.bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Man08.pdf

Youve got waaaay more patience then me for that stuff. I was having runability issues with my FI on my 2.0L... and after 48hrs I ordered a set of Webers....

Hope ya figure it out dude!!

L Jet is pretty reliable. You should consider the trigger points may be bad.

No trigger points in L-jet. It goes off the ignition signal.

Speaking of which: All the wires connected? There should be an "extra" one on the coil to pick up the ignition signal for the injection.

How's the dual relay doing?

--DD

Yeah, no trigger points.

All wires are connected. The "extra" wire is connected to (-) side of coil. I originally thought the dual relay was the suspect. I installed a new in box dual relay with the same results.

I think I'm down to the ECU or the Resistor pack. Both of which are in good shape and worked prior to rebuild.

Hope you kept your old FI pieces. After a few years of putzing w/ carbs you'll feel differently. Especially those moisture trapping Webers. Good luck!

while not l-jet, my 1.7 had the same issue - no signal to the injectors.

ended up breaking down and taking to a real mechanic. after hours of checking the basics, he swapped ecu's with another car in his shop and it ran! perhaps someone local has an extra you could try?

I saw an ad in the classifieds for and ECU.

Do the part numbers have to match? His is a 74 and so is mine but my P/n is 280 000 103 / 022 906 021G

His is 280.000.090 and 473.906.021

Will these swap?

Mine didn't start up at first. Same issues your saying. Although the double relay was fine, it was the 2 connectors that plug into it. I'd double check the condition of the DBL relay connectors before you start replacing parts. Also, make sure the 3 white wires are attached to the gnd terminal on the engine tin. In addition to that, make sure your tranny ground is making good contact.

Double relay is good. I also have a 2nd brand new one that was of no help. Contacts at the relay were all checked and manually seated.

Grounds are connected and even better I ran an extra line from the common ground for the FI directly to the battery ground. No help.

Trans area ground point was degreased and wire brushed before engine install. A small amount of dielectric grease was applied before the strap was fastened.

I was very detailed in the prep and install of this engine. That's why I'm stumped.

I was thinking of just ripping the harnesses apart and rewiring them...but that might take a while.

I believe you, I'm sure the dbl relay is good. I played this game last week, after the car sat for 15 years. I ended up soaking the 2 connectors that snap onto the double relay in a glass of coke cola. The reason I keep coming back to this, is due to what you said earlier. You had different resistance's when trying different relays.

i'd search around as i seem to recal seeing a compatibility chart from Jeff Bowlsby. if you do end up replacing the ecu, i'd look for one with an adjustment knob for the idle mixture.

sorry, i was unable to locate that chart...

2 more silly questions. Is the yellow wire attached to the right terminal on that relay board?
When you jump out the fuel pump, and the pump stays on, have you tried starting the car?

No questions are silly at this point.

Yes, Yellow wire is attached to the correct point on relay board. #II on 4 pole FI connection at relay board.

I did jump the fuel pump and tried to start, but injectors did not fire. I had them connected and firing into a jar. Dry as a bone.

Supply line was disconnected at fuel rail. Lines are circulating fuel when pump is jumped or AFM flap id held open.

Have you checked the temp sensor? Do you have a way to test the fuel loop pressure? I feel for you considering this L-Jet system worked before the rebuild.
A lot of things can happen to the fuel system and the injectors if much time passed during the rebuild, especially with today's gasoline

Temp sensor:good
3 of the four injectors are NOS
Engine has been down for 4 months. All stored items had Marvel Mystery oil run through them prior to storage.
New SS fuel lines in tunnel and engine compartment
New fuel filter
Fuel tank cleaned out and new sock and copper washers installed
All fuel lines replaced with 30r9

You have fuel pump action, while depressing the AFM flap. However, you can't hear the fuel pump when the ignition switch is in the crank position? Can you verify this by measure voltage at the pump?

Correct. I don't know if the pump is working during cranking. I can't hear it over the motor cranking and can't imagine how anyone could.

Voltage at pump with key in ON position is 12v.

You can determine if the pump is running with the key on start position by looking for voltage at the pump while cranking.....you may need to get a partner to crank the engine while you look for voltage at the pump connector.

Will do...What will this info tell me (other than if there is voltage present)?
More specifically, what will that point to as suspect?

Correct operation of the double relay would be zero power to the fuel pump with the key at the on position. 12vdc present at the fuel pump while turning the key to the crank position. 0 volts back to the "on" position. However, at the "on" position, you could manually press the AFM flap, then you would get 12vdc at the fuel pump.
By performing this test, tells us that the fuel section of the double relay is working right.

I'd be careful how long you keep the key at the "ON" position. Depending what position the points are at, it could fry the points, or even ruin the ignition coil. If you have electronic points, you would definately destroy the module by leaving the key in the "on" position for more than a minute. It would be good to have a partner check the voltages while your manning the ignition switch. If you don't have an extra hand, maybe disconnect the point gnd wire going to the coil. Or if you have a good multimeter, you could use the "hold" feature, which will document voltages.

Thanks, I'll have to test it again.

I have the pertronix module(no points) and only turn the key on long enough to perform one test at a time. Never more than 30 sec.

If the pump runs when you manualy open the AFM flap with the key at the on position, this test will verify that fuel pump will also run with the key in the cranking position. (since it is hard to hear over the starter)
When the ignition switch is turned on it energizes the dual relay which provides battery voltage to the control unit and injection valves. When the key is further turned to the crank position the relay gives voltage to the fuel pump, If the engine starts, voltage continues to be provided to the fuel pump through contacts in the AFM. If the engine fails to start and the key is released to the on position the voltage to the pump is opened by the AFM flap contacts.

Cool, good to know that. He has already stated earlier that when he depresses the AFM flap, the fuel pump does indeed turns on. So the fuel half of the dual relay seems to work. I think the next step would be trouble shooting voltages on the dual relay that feeds the Brain (ECU). Looking at the schematic, I would keep the dual relay in their electrical sockets and check pin (88z) to gnd. It's tied directly to the battery, and you should have 12vdc at that terminal at all times. If you have power at that pin, then go ahead and turn the ign switch to the on position and check pin (88b) to gnd. Again you should have 12vdc with the key switch on. If this is the case, then continue to the Brain ECU connector. Check pin 10 on the connector to gnd, (with the ign on). You should have 12vdc. If you have power there, then put your red multimeter lead on pin 10 on the ECU connector, and put the black meter lead on pin 5, then pin 16, then pin 17. Those last 3 pins are all grounds, you should have 12vdc on each. If you have voltage on everthing I just said, then I think your brain is faulty.

[quote name='pilothyer' date='Apr 16 2012, 08:23 PM' post='1667786']
[quote name='Black22' post='1667731' date='Apr 16 2012, 09:09 PM']
[quote name='pilothyer' post='1667686' date='Apr 16 2012, 06:25 PM']
You can determine if the pump is running with the key on start position by looking for voltage at the pump while cranking.....you may need to get a partner to crank the engine while you look for voltage at the pump connector.
[/quote]

Will do...What will this info tell me (other than if there is voltage present)?
More specifically, what will that point to as suspect?
[/quote]

[/quote]

If the pump runs when you manualy open the AFM flap with the key at the on position, this test will verify that fuel pump will also run with the key in the cranking position. (since it is hard to hear over the starter)
When the ignition switch is turned on it energizes the dual relay which provides battery voltage to the control unit and injection valves. When the key is further turned to the crank position the relay gives voltage to the fuel pump, If the engine starts, voltage continues to be provided to the fuel pump through contacts in the AFM. If the engine fails to start and the key is released to the on position the voltage to the pump is opened by the AFM flap contacts.
[/quote]

It does run when I manually open the AFM

Operating voltage is present on both sides of the dual relay on terminals 88z & 88b ( per L-jet mauals-Type4.org)

So this means that after failing to start I should turn the key to the OFF position and then turning the key back to the ON position before taking a reading at the fuel pump terminals, because after cranking and releasing the key to the ON position will give you power at the pump due to the AFM contacts?

Did I follow you correctly?

BTW, Thanks for taking the time to respond to this thread EVERYONE. I appreciate it.

Sorry! My quote separating didn't go as planned.

I'll try that, Thank you. I was looking for a thread that had a test for the ECU.
I do have voltage of 12v on 88z and 88b as you stated above.

Good to hear that you have voltage at 88b. Now check at the ECU pig tail pin 10. This is the same as 88b. If you have voltage at 88b, then you should have voltage at pin 10, otherwise you have a open in the wiring harness.

After verifying pin 10, check the 3 ground pins on that pigtail. These test will need to be carried out with the dual relay plugged into their connector, and the ignition switch to the "on" position. And, you'll need to pull off the connector on the ECU to gain access to these pins.

Got it. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until tomorrow to do this. I really appreciate the input.

OK, results are:

pin 10 to ground = 12v
pin 10 to pin 5= 12v
pin 10 to pin 16= 12v
pin 10 to pin 17= 12v

Cool, that sounds great.
Now check pins 14 to gnd,,then 32 to gnd,,,then 33 to gnd,,,and lastly 15 to gnd. You should have voltage on each of them.

Alright....where to continue from?

1911 with L-jet. Yet to break in.

Harnesses gone through...every contact checks good.
AFM: ohms out good
New Double relay
Rebuilt ECU
I've gone through everything at manuals.type4.org. and all but one items checks out.
It says I should have 12v from ground(pin85 on dbl relay) to pin 88c on dbl relay. I have 0 volts. This is a NEW relay.
Pump runs with AFM flap manually moved and while cranking engine over.
Every wire is accounted for and hooked up properly.

Engine will start if starter fluid or gas is squirted into throttle body.

Everything check except my injectors will not fire. I have jumped from ground to pins 14,15,32 & 33 and can hear each injector click. tim_nd has spent alot of time with this on me and we cannot get it figured out.

PLEASE!!! Anyone else have any ideas? Would a bad relay board cause this?

Deleted

L-Jet doesn't have trigger points

You should only have 12V to 88c when the engine is trying to start or running.

Here are a few diagrams that help to understand the double relay. If yours is new though, then it should be good but it doesn't hurt to check.

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Doug, I don't have that ground wire in your last picture. I never had it and the car ran. Necessary?

Manuals.type4.org said 88c should have 12v with key on, but this is the only time it mentions 88c at all. it's not in the other trouble shooting tests. It does look like 88c is the power for the fuel pump. That does rum while cranking, so 88c must have power when cranking.

Um, not sure Its been a while since I played with L-Jet

I skimmed through the rest of this thread but if I understand correctly, you aren't getting fuel out of the injectors right? Have you tested the fuel pressure when cranking? No fuel through the injectors seems like it would be no pressure, the resistor pack, or bad injectors and I know you have near new injectors.

3 NOS injectors 1 that was previously on engine running. Resistor pack checks good with key on and using a wire grounded from battery (-) and jumping to ECU pigtail connection 14,15, 32, 33 you can hear each injector click.

Fuel pressure is 29psi.

Mike,
How many wires do you have going into the left plug on the last pic. 85C should be ground, can you check that with a multimeter and get back?

The dual relay has a brown ground wire. Usually attaches to a spade on the engine case near the center. If it is in place, check it's continuity.....this is a common L-Jet issue

6 wires. One at each terminal listed on the diagram. 88d, 86c,88z,88y,86(a) and 85 which is a ground.

You might have misread my post 88c should have power. 85 is ground.

At the car right now with meter & computer. What do you want me to check?

Yes, all grounds are connected at grounding point underneath intake plenum on block. Continuity good.

I admit that I don't know L-jet.
I see you have a petronix, was it running with that before? And are you running a Bosch blue? Could you have the wires hooked up wrong. My Bosch blus has a+ and - terminal and I hooked it up wrong at first, but I have points and D-jet. Not trying to point fingers, just saying sometimes we try so hard, we get things mixed up.
Tom

Okay I figured it out. That isn't a ground wire. It is a jumper wire that connects to the battery(+). In Bowlsby diagram it connects to terminal "6" and then there should be a jumper between "6" and "2"

http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/Har..._74-75L-Jet.pdf

Click to view attachment

Pertronix has less than 600miles on it before rebuild. I have the Pertronix Flamethrower coil. I have a new coil and an old of the same make. Car will fire and run with starter fluid and/or gas in throttle body.

Yeah I have that diagram. 2 & 6 are jumpered. My harnesses are all in spec per Jeff's diagrams