I'm wrapping up my current 4-year 914 project (3.6, 915, GT flares, 993TT brakes, etc), and thinking about the next... Seriously, I like how my car is turning out, but there are things I'd do differently next time. My car will be nice, but pretty heavy as far as 914s go. The 3.6, 915, headers with heat, big brakes, roll bar, chassis reinforcements, leather, have all added significant weight. The only weight discount I've used is carbon fiber front and rear lids.

So, in an attempt to start an interesting thread, and in converse to my current project, how light could a streetable, but strong autocross and occasional track 914/6 be? 1600 lbs? 1200 lbs?

1200 lbs might seem ridiculous, but why not? Start with a 914, build a full tube frame, cut away nearly all the metal (basically just use the donor car for dimensions) and add back a carbon fiber body. The carbon fiber work at GT Racing is so nice, you probably wouldn't even need to paint it (and save more weight in the process). What's the best (lightest/strongest) material to build such a frame out of? What would be the best engine of choice? Something like:

early chassis
2.7 six
901
ERP-style suspension
15x7 and 15x8 Fuchs
fixed headlights in front bumper
small fuel cell
stock seats, aluminum floors, minimal dash
all lexan windows except for windshield
carbon fiber body parts, no paint

Any ideas?

-Steve

Sete,
Let me be first.
This is a good "what if' but the car you discribe will not be street legal. You can't take a 914 cut all the sheet metal out, replace with a tube frame, add a cf body and call it a 914. It stops being a 914 somewhere and it becomes a car shaped like a 914.

My car currently weighs less than 1600 pounds and I hope to get it to 1500. And there will be those that feel my car stopped being a 914 when I hecked it up. So it all comes back to what degree or at what point does it stop being a 914.

What does everyone think?

Paul

Brad, how much does your tube frame car weight? It looks like a 914.
Geoff

It weighs 2050 I *think*... it is SCCA GT2 class wieght legal with me in it and a 1/4 tank of gas.

It has a more floor in it than I think it needs (full steel belly pan that is perfectly flat and a aluminum floor in the cockpit) the entire car is fiberglass except the windshield hoop and the tail light section.

There is a certain point of "unsafe" and "flexy flyer". Oh.. its made from chrome moly which is a tad lighter than mild steel.


B

> This is a good "what if' but the car you discribe will not be street legal
Why not? What part is illegal? Carbon fiber hood or aluminum floor?

>It stops being a 914 somewhere and it becomes a car shaped like a 914.
Is that bad? The closer it gets to being a 914-shaped DOOM II the faster my pulse gets.
Go for it Silverson, I like it already!

-Ben M.

The other consideration would be what autoX class would let you do all that to the car. Would it be competitive in that class?

2100 lbs is minimum weight for a 2.7L 914 in SCCA F Prepared. The Modified class is a BIG step up.

Also,

Paul's car is a 4...
to add a 6 and necessary oil tank/lines/cooler?
has got to be another 100 lbs minimum with the heavier motor (probably 200lbs).

brant

My 914 weighed 1775 lbs complete with Chevy V6 engine. This is with no fiberglass parts except for GT style flares.

In SCCA E-Modifed class (over 2L engine size) to weigh the minumum, 1500lbs, you are required to have only the original floorpan intact. The rest can be tubing and carbon fiber and still be considered a 914 as far as the rules are concerned.

Mike T

What part is illegal to be a street car?

How about the whole car. You need a VIN number get a tag. Your insurance company will want to see it before they'll insure it. And they may have something to say about it, like go get it crash tested first to see if it meets the Fed's regs.

Now if you want to ask "How light can a 914 get and still be a 'street legal, class legal 914'"?
I would say it would be hard to get a -6 to 1700 lbs. It would depend on time and money-like everything else.

Paul

here's a pic of Brad's tube car ...

Now if you look REAL close at Brad's car you'll see some rust, so you know it is a 914.

Paul

Ha ha... we laugh about the windshield hoop and the tail light section..


IT DOES HAVE 914 rust....


B

I agree with Paul....
I think it would be tough to get a 6 down to 1700 lbs.
Also, I think more bracing is necessary for a road race car than Paul is using.. (ie: thicker roll bar tubing, etc) thus making it very tough.

I can't wait to get my car done.
I will have an all-metal (only fiberglass bumpers are legal in my vintage group) narrow bodied car. A small-6, and no tubing allowed to be connected to be welded to any suspension points (no semi-tube racecars allowed)
I honestly think it will be very close to 2000lbs. I believe this to be extremely good, and hope to get there through attention to detail.

can't wait to weigh it and see.
brant

Brad,

If you didn't have to follow the rules per the weight, what could you get your car down to?

Anybody know how heavy the tube framed 914 w/3.3L turbo (won the OTC last year) was? As far as I know the OTC doesn't have weight regs...




Personally I don't think it would be that hard to get a tube framed car legal (well, maybe in California, but not in Texas)...I see home built dune buggies running around with plates and stickers all the time...and in my book, as long as the car looks like a 914 then it counts...

Tony C.

bump...still curious

I understand this car weighs close to 1500lb.
Those in PCA Zn7 (or Boise Parade) who have seen Steve AutoX this car know it is quite speedy for a 4 cylinder car.

http://www.dleong.org/2002/ax/ggr5/imagepa...ges/image16.htm

You have to click "stop the show" to get a decent look, or it will keep scrolling beyond image #16

Regards

Hayden PTBT

Wow, is that what the Nieslony car wound up as? Jeez, I gotta get out more often...

The Newlin car ("Ol Number 22") was, I think, 1400 lbs wet. No driver, though. Bill was really fanatical about weight, though, and it took a heck of a lot of effort to get it down that far. It was absolutely minimal as far as "what constitutes a 914" in PCA Zone 7 rules. Mostly tubes and 'glass, and no more of either than it needed. Four-cylinder motor, because that is lighter than the Six setup.

I think it had a 2.2L four putting out over 200 HP. Not for long, mind you...

--DD