I'm trying to change out a snapped off 4cylinder exhaust stud
its snapped off pretty short... between the head and the push rod tubes... nothing sticking out.

I can only get one nut on, not two

I've tried heat, pliers, etc...
I have a set of metric stud extractors.. but they are too big of diameter to fit on the stud. (the stud is pretty close to the side of the head)

I'm going to try and borrow a welder tonight and weld a nut on
does anyone know of any other trick or tool that would work in such a tight location?


brant

Brant,

I have a MIG welder and a set of bolt extractors.
Jim has a TIG welder (what you should use), but it is in Aurora.

Is the head still on the engine? If not bring it by.

Stu

it is on the engine
but your close enough, I could still bring it by
It would take 30 seconds to zap it


I'll knock on my neighbors door and see if he has a stick welder tonight
If not I'll get some help to throw the motor into my truck and bug you some night this week.

I think I still have your phone number... I would call first
thanks for the offer.
brant

You are fighting electrolytic bonding between the steel stud and the aluminum head. If it is bad, and sounds like it is, the best weapon is heat. Problem is it gets pretty scary. The old guys who say to get out the acetylene and heat the nut or bolt to glowing red know what they are talking about. BUT with gas and oil it is DANGEROUS. One good thing is you can work up to it by heating to the limit of your comfort zone and then trying the stud - just don't break it. If it seems like it won't move, try more heat. Also after heating, spraying with penetrating oil works well because it soaks into the hot joint better. Again DISCRETION, because what works is also at the oil flash point. An advantage is that the aluminum carries heat very fast so it is fairly hard to damage the aluminum by heating the stud. There are electric stud heaters too, but most people can't afford them.

Welding blankets from harbor Freight, a full bucket of water in case your hand gets hot, and fire extinguishers.

If all this sounds like pyromania, it isn't meant to be, but it has worked for me.

[quote name='worn' date='May 15 2012, 09:54 AM' post='1675890']
[quote name='brant' post='1675822' date='May 15 2012, 08:29 AM']
I'm trying to change out a snapped off 4cylinder exhaust stud
its snapped off pretty short... between the head and the push rod tubes... nothing sticking out.

I can only get one nut on, not two

I've tried heat, pliers, etc...
I have a set of metric stud extractors.. but they are too big of diameter to fit on the stud. (the stud is pretty close to the side of the head)

I'm going to try and borrow a welder tonight and weld a nut on
does anyone know of any other trick or tool that would work in such a tight location?


brant
[/quote]

In re reading it sounds like your problem is more about grabbing the stud. I had thought at first it was an issue of it breaking off during turning so it was stuck on.

This sounds stupid, but I would have thought that a big - @ss vise grip would lock on with a torque powerful enough to break the stud. Guess not. Your stud extractor if cam action might work if you added a small bolt parallel to the stud to take up space. Good luck. I have a small jar that I put the victory extractions in - drilled out, or some other heroics. Not that full I am afraid, but fond memories to build courage.

I used something like this when I had a similar issue:

http://www.toolup.com/proto_j69x00_10-pc-b...ELAID=780491787

Weld the nut on and be prepared to stick a socket on it as fast as you can before it cools down...
If you cant get it after that short amount of heat from the mig gun, use a tig or torch to get it cherry hot...

Go in and out, try both directions gently...it will eventually give up.

If not, borrow an exhaust stub pipe, bolt it down to the other stud and rung a drill through the side that is broken to start drilling it out.
If you use bushings around the bit to keep it centered...and youa re very carefull, you can get the job done.

Remember the hole has a bottom to it and you dont want to go to far or you will blow a hole in the head...

I have done more than a few on my back with a hand drill...just take your time, use a jig if you can...even a piece of aluminum or steel with the right size hole it it will work to help you keep it straight.


rich

SORRY!

Jason..

don't be
I'm going to take a crack at it tomorrow
don't sweat it...

all is fine.

I think GINT wrote a whole thread about this once.

I vaguely remember a car ramp flying through the air as he worked on it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=49091&hl=

How about this,I used this to remove all but one stud on my 930.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopca..._WTD179_pg5.htm

Then had to buy this to get the last one that i broke off. Similar to the trick described above using the exhaust as a guide.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/...%2D%39%38%29%09

Kind of a pain, and expensive, while engine was still in the car, but cheaper than a tow and shop to fix.

This can help in the extream case where drilling it out is necessary

Another thing I just remembered.

I have a resistance welder.
It is pretty much just a transformer about the size of a big lunch box and weighs about 100 lbs.

It can output hundreds or thousands of amps at something like 1 volt.

It can heat steel to glowing red hot in a few seconds.

We could try that too.
Safer than a torch...

Stu

Pocket torch and JB weld the nut on. Wack it with a punch? Something with high speed vibration to break the bond. Hammer drill with a bolt in the chuck?

hey thanks guys!
I got it out last night with the welder...


it looks like the offending stud was a stepped one.

8x 1.25 on one end
9 x 1.25 on the other end


Where is a good source to buy a stepped stud?
I didn't see them on pelican
I went to the local import shop and struck out.

anyone have a good source for a stock length stepped stud?


brant

Brant,

I got some a while ago from belmetric.com

Matt

Try your local drit bike shop. Many two-strokes use stepped studs, especially for the cylinder head stud.

Andys

Belmetric I used S8X10X38 - Metric Step Stud when mine broke.
Had to double up the washers.

Mcmaster car

Brant,

I have a Helicoil M10x1.5 metric thread repair kit.
I have been hauling it around for ~20 years...

I seem to recall that when a stepped stud pulled out, I had to replace the threads in the head with that. Then another stepped stud.
If it helps at all?

Last I checked AutoAtlanta actually carried the stepped studs.

Stu

I actually have 4 - 9MM and 4 - 10MM studs for a dire emergency.

Never used them.

Best bet is to borrow a timesert kit or have a competent friend do an 8MM timesert and use the OEM studs.

That way things are normal. Worst case, call AA and order a couple of 9MM studs and drill/tap, but I don't recommend anything but a timesert. I actually used loctite on all 4 new studs and the timesert was one of them. 4 others were fine.

I wonder what others think about timeserts?

I love them!

John

My local VW shop had them in stock when I needed one. Worth a call.

Hey everyone
these are great suggestions.

someone told me that ace/tru-value carried these in stepped
I don't know if that is accurate, but I thought I would try them and the kawasaki shop today....



if not, then I'll just order one

I have a heli-coil kit if I have too
but I ran a tap through the 9mm and it cleaned up well
I really think I can screw a new 9mm back in and solve everything

hopefully I can install the motor/tranny this weekend even without the stud
I can always screw it in later and get some work done in the mean time

thanks for all the ideas and tips guys...
Stu you should come by and have a beer this weekend
its 1/2 mile away... come by.

brant

just an update for any future soul searching this topic.

the correct stud from a 1972-1983 transporter is a stepped 8m/9mm stud and just a tiny bit shorter...

however that stud is NLA and crazy expensive if you can find one.
I found some in canada, but with shipping it was going to be about $40 for 2 studs

what the VW bus guys are doing is using an aftermarket stepped stud. It is also 8m/9m and about 56mm long. This is perfect for us since we need 53mm

still expensive at about $8/each
and shipping in a US flat rate box is better than international shipping.

I had the option of trying to heli-coil mine. mine is already drilled out by the PO to 9mm so I wasn't sure if the 8mm helicoil would work or not. There is also the option of going to a stepped 8m/10m which is much more common and much more available.

just because mine is already drilled to 9m and the threads are intact
Also because I don't know how cocentrically (sp?) the last guy drilled it
I decided to order the 9mm stud rather than take the gamble of having drill problems. Finally I rationalized that I would be leaving the material in the head in case I have to drill it in the future.

brant

brant

That is probably why I have the 10mm helicoil kit ;-)

I'll see if I can stop by Sun or Mon, but today is birthday party day and help my bro put on a new awning on the camper before next weekend's race.

Stu