For those who don’t know I’m starting to produce the items necessary for a Subaru conversion. I just got some prototype axles in from Sway-A-Way(SAW) and test fit them last night. While they fit both the older and newer style Subaru transmissions (different axle output style, male or female CV’s) as well as both the 914 and 944 CV’s I have stumbled onto a bit of a problem. The way Subaru designed the later/stronger 2005+ transmissions (with the male DOJ) the hub assembly must be removed to get the axles off. Translated to the 914, it makes installation/removal much more of a hassle than the earlier weaker transmissions.

What I need your opinion on is the viability of the SAW axles, originally at 375$ a set they were meant to be the most inexpensive/universal solution for the axle portion of the Subaru swap. Providing a cheaper alternative to the 600$+ the annoyance of needing to open the 2005+ box up and install the older style male stubs, that Subaru Gears offers. However now with the necessity of the male stubs for the Subaru transmission in the 914 it one of the advantages of the SAW system has been eliminated. It is still less expensive 375 (2004- trans) or 475 (w/stub for 2005+ trans) vs 500$ or 600$.

So anyone considering a “suborsche,” let me know what you think, is this something you would be interested in? I am ready to order 10 sets and they would be ready in 2 weeks, just pending your opinions on the matter.
Thanks
Ian M.

I truly appreciate your willingness to take on this project. However, I believe the biggest challenge you're up against is using the term "universal" when talking about the Subaru transaxle conversion. There are many variations (i.e., male vs. female output shafts, push vs. pull clutch, etc.) of the Suby trans, and I am in the camp that you should develop a solution based on the transaxle/outputs with which you're working. In my case, I'm using a 1998 Forester tansaxle, I put an OBX limited-slip in it, I used 108mm 911 CV joints on the outers and the Suby inners that came with it, and had Dutchman cut/respline a set of 911 axle shafts to make it work.

Your other challenge is trying to find an "inexpensive" solution. To do anything correctly that will make your customers happy, I believe you need to find customers that are ready to spend the time and money necessary to do it right. To truly make a universal kit, I believe you'd need to supply everything from transaxle (with and without LSD), to axle shafts for various setups (914 for narrowbody or for widebody including 911 hubs and bearing spacers?), new hub bearings, CVs, shifting mechanism (shifter, in-car shifter mount, cables, grommets), transaxle-to-body mounts, engine mounting bar and new Suby engine mounts, hydraulic clutch setup (modified pedals, hydro lines, master cylinder mounts), speedo conversion (I strongly recommend the Suby electric setup & modified VDO speedometer), wiring harness, cooling setup (radiator and mounting system, fan setup, hoses, templates for cutting holes, grommets, etc.), weld-in trunk box for starter/turbo/clutch actuation ... OMG, did I really do all that and my car is still not running after three years of weekends and late evenings? And I've already spent a boatload of money for which my wife would divorce me if she only knew!

YMMV... and sorry to hijack your thread (back to another glass of delicious Central Coast wine). It takes a lot of planning, trials/tribulations, and patience to do a conversion correctly -- and a strong desire to "do something different." My Suby-powered Vanagon Syncro took a year to get everything right, and I sold it because I needed a new challenge.

I see what you are saying, maybe I need to use a different adjective, but it seems like the best one for what I am trying to do: make a system that leaves the options open for the choice of parts. The cradle for example, works with the Subaru or the 901 transmissions; the axles leave the option of original 914 gear, or a more robust and easy to source 944 gear. So maybe the most flexible system possible? Basically I’m just trying to leave the options open for people to decide.



Again I see your point(s), I guess where I’m coming from is this, if a bolt in system (at least for the drivetrain) was out there, for less than what it would take for you to pay a welder, to one-off something or Subaru gears, I think people would be interested, (I know I was) even the guys who were planning on paying more to get it done right are not going to complain… and maybe some folks who are on the fence about costs and time will decide to jump in. I mean it is not as cheap as if you had fab skills, and equipment necessary to get it done, it’s kind of a mid range, if you pay a shop to build it, its going to be bucks, if you do it yourself it could be a bit less. I mean I remember reading on here about some one doing chump car or 24hr lemons with a sub914?



And maybe I will in the future, I already have plans for a cable shifter on the 901 and the Subaru trans being formed. Next will probably be something with the radiators. The thing is, I’m also building this for myself, I have a roller that needs everything. Like I have said before this whole thing started out of the idea that hey if I’m going to make/do this myself why not make it repeatable, including tracking what I’m building make instructions become a dealer at the places I’m getting my parts to get deeper discounts for guys. What is to stop me? I’m about to graduate college, I have the small business experience, I want my own 914 done, and people seem interested. If I’m going to try my hand at starting this, now is the time, no family to provide for, manageable bills…

Well I’m starting to fly off on a tangent and that’s not what this thread was intended for. Maybe I need to change how I’m asking this as well, would anyone be interested in a group buy of the axles? Does anyone want these axles or do you just want to stick with the flange style, or do a re-spline yourself?

Let me know people.. I’m not going to drop 3k on axles if people are not interested…

another note, people have asked me several times now why I didn’t go with 108mm CV’s. Because in a drivetrain system the CV joint also acts as a fuse, when too much force is applied, you want the CV’s to go not something in the transmission. So for people who want to error on the safer side, I figured why not let them use the 914 gear. For the high HP guys there is the 944 gear, which Britain Smith has been running without any issues on his monster… why then if those two CV’s happen to have the same spline count would I need the 108mm? How many guys are going to be running higher hp/tq numbers harder than Britain does?

here is a shot of the axles fresh out of the box from SAW
Click to view attachment

Ian,
As you know this is something I need to do more research on. I will be running a 'stock' 05 STI engine on an V3 RA Gearbox. I am converting the hubs to 5 bolt (because I don't have enough other things to do! )

What hubs would these fit to? Are any of the 911 family the same number of splines? (one option for me is to go complete 911 rear hub/brake)

I do have a set of 'converted' 914 5 lug rear hubs but I'm worried that they wont put up with much punishment.

Cheers,
Ian

Wow Ian, that will be a stout transmission, the RA gearset is nice, cant wait to see some pictures. As to your question…
There are two options for the stronger 100mm joints. One is 944 stubs, cheap and easy to find used. However these require a spacer to work correctly. It would be easier, to find a set of 100mm 911 stub axles/ 75-79 I think, but pelican is listing the axle for a longer span...
75-85

The 911 100mm stub will fit perfectly, but you do need 944 joints, as I don’t know if the 100mm joint is the same 33 spline pattern. FYI here is a great write up Sir Andy did.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=59486
The only thing that would need to be changed to convert that to Subaru with my SAW axles is:
Subaru DOJ
SAW axle
944 100mm CV ->
911 ('75 - '79) 6-bolt 100mm stub axle ->
911 ('69 - '73?) hub

I'm on board with what you are doing. Unless this is going to be sold as a "complete kit". If the parts are going to be sold individually, it still allows us the options of doing our conversions to however it fits our needs and or budget. For me the SAW axles and cradle are exactly what I'm looking for. The conversions do take allot of fore thought and an extensive list of things to purchase and fabricate. These items just remove a major portion of the list, ie; fab time, trial and error time (and money), waiting on outside services, etc.

I am interested in this, but I am emphatically not interested in axles that require upgraded CVs mostly because those require 911 hubs and those require new wheels and those require 911 front end parts and etc. It adds a complete suspension and rolling part rework onto a relatively simple conversion. If you're talking about supplying axles that will allow me to use the subaru inner and the stock 914 outer, well, sign me up. As I said in the other thread, I'd be willing to pay for just specifications at this point.

Thanks for the feedback; I had no intentions of selling anything in “kit only” form. I agree completely, with all the different options on this conversion it would be counterproductive to try and force people into one way of doing it.



That is what I am saying, glad you appreciate the idea.

Any updates? I plan to do a subaru swap once i find the right 914....

I'm curious how the engine cradle is doing (saw in another thread). I'm local to you too, wouldn't mind checking out your work.

Things have been going slow, but are ticking up again. I was done with the cradle and pretty much ready to start production but was alerted to the fact that my original system would not accommodate the subi 6 clys. Unacceptable... so I went back and redrew the mounts, got em lasercut, now re-prototyping, just need to adjust the jig and finally start production.

Sorry its taken so long guys. As I'm sure you know life has a way of getting in the way sometimes..

Any news? All this buying other people xmas presents... it's time for me, now.

I'm looking to get the entire kit, including axles. The early trans should be fine for me.

Spoke with Sway-A-Way, they said the axles have been done machining for a while its just their heat treat company that is lagging. In any case if you hang with me one more week they should be here!