You may be correct in stating that none of us who has posted here has a PhD in chemistry, but that's not the point.

For those of us who aren't PhDs (apparently, including yourself), we will have to rely on the information provided by the product's manufacturers as to the benefits of their composition, or from end users' experiences, just as you have provided.

I do have a 'dog in the fight' ... I want my new engine to run for many miles

this is very timely topic since I just got my car. The PO did an oil change using 20w50 Castrol.

I'll be looking at my options going forward.

Turk

Brad Penn 10-30 in my 1.7 w/232K

.....Back in the day, Valvoline was my main DINO(good chit)
don't know if they changed formula(recipe)??

Everything with a API certification has changed their formulations. They had to due to the new requirements. I haven't seen an API rated oil that met the standards we need. Even the diesel oils scare me.

I just did an oil change this weekend. Swapped in some Joe Gibbs Aircooled oil. Nothing scientific yet, but I did note right away that it smelled like the oils of the past. That can't be a bad thing.

Diesel oils are also changed and no longer good


Carlos,
this isn't a synthetic versus dino debate
this is about the anti shock properties of the additives that used to cusion the contact points of the cam and lifters....


All of the oils with API certification (dino and synthetic) have had these additives removed now because over a 100,000 life span these additives damage catalytic converters.

so to improve the life of emissions equiptment the requirements have changed to be certified.

This changed happened about 7 years ago
your cam/lifter failure probably happened on the old and good stuff
now modern oils will not protect the metal to metal contact of flat tappet engines

I have seen a recent lifter wore through.. yes with a hole wore through
more commonly you will see cam lobes wore down
ask the chevy v8 guys... heck ask any true performance car guy from any marquee....

I agreee with the above
all of the API certified oils with modern certification are missing the correct additives.

We had a cam go flat in my dad's Ford... Directly attributed to oil. It now runs hot rod oil, and a roller cam and lifters. You can't be too sure.

I've been reading this thread with interest, and I thought that I would email Castrol and see what they recommended for air cooled engines. This is their response when I asked about what oil I should put in my 82 911 SC.


This ticket has been updated by IC - Castrol Representative



Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the original engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

We do not have oil recommendations based on a specific type of engine. We have specific recommendations based on year, make and model of a vehicle. According to Castrol's lubrication guide recommended for the 1982 Porche 911 is the following:

For Mineral based oil:
Above 14F: 20W-50
Above 5F: 15W-40, 15W-50
-4 to 95F: 10W-40, 10W-50
-13 to 68F: 10W-30
-22 to 32F: 5W-30
Below 14F: 5W-20

Synthetic Based Oils:
32 to 105F: 10W-30. 10W40, 10w-50
All temperatures: 5W-30, 5W-40, 5W-50

Thank you for contacting Castrol.

Castrol Consumer Relations




I imagine that they don't want to stick their necks out too far, and that is why they have made the disclaimer for reading your manual. I would like to know from an oil engineer what have they done in modern oils to replace the zinc and other materials that made the old stuff "good" for air cooled engines. I'll see if I can get a response. Wish me luck!

Every now and then I get a little strong with my words when I get fired up about some posts that have bad information. I apologize for the way I came across. I was actually more calm than it sounded - I probably just had a couple beers too many and lost my online tact, forgot the smileys, etc. But it wasn't trolling. And I don't argue just because someone doesn't agree with me.

Hey, who knows, many of us won't put enough miles on our 914s to even notice any potential difference. Run Wesson oil if you want.

The points I do want to be clear on though:
1. Today's dino oil ain't the same as it was when they printed the owners manual. Maybe it's good enough. For some it isn't.
2. One should not believe a blanket statement like straight 40W is the only way to go for everyone in every climate.



Hey Thestigz06: Thanks for your service.

[quote name='Rand' date='Aug 13 2012, 07:25 PM' post='1723473']
[quote name='Thestigz06' post='1721836' date='Aug 10 2012, 10:56 AM']
Oh and calm down we all have our own opinions based off what we have heard, seen, experienced, etc. We're all friends here so there's no sense in trolling on anyone who doesn't agree with you.
[/quote]

......Hope to see you at 1 of our south Cali gatherings, so I can thank you
personally for your service sir!(Thestigz06)

Hey Thestigz06: Thanks for your service.

Brad Penn or Mobil 1 are my oils of choice

Its all good brother, i get the same way at times as well. Ive got thick skin and just enjoy a good debate every now and then. I dont want to and make a bigger issue then it is, just all in good fun!

Now back on topic:
Granted i did not account for the quality of oil today and I 100% agree that maybe folks in different climates have had better luck with different weights. My impression was that colder climates pulled their cars out as summer toys. I have hotrod friends in WI that refuse to take their toys out only in spring/summer time to avoid water and salt on the roads. I know it gets hot there but this was more of a statement that i seem to of pulled out of my !

Much appreciated man! But you'll notice "aspiring". Plenty of paperwork still, but keep a lookout, il be posting some things in the sandbox with my progress before too long!

I just read an interesting tech article on oil testing and the results.

This is a good read and explains some of the "myths" about modern engine oils and their use in flat tappet motors (reader beware - I have not done any fact checking about these claims)

Does anyone know much about 540Rat?
He claims to have no affiliation with any oil (or oil additive) manufacturer, but he sure seems to like "Oil Extreme" additive.

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20...r-test-ranking/

I tend to believe Jake (if for no other reason than sheer numbers of engines that he has run) and use Brad Penn Racing oil.
But if you believe what 540rat is explaining, then castol GTX with the "oil extreme" additive is even better.

I am on Brad Penn 20W-50 now. Prior engine was on Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50. The switch was mainly due to a change in mechanics vs. a specific decision.

Translog GT put SWEPCO 15W40 in mine after an Engine rebuild and I continue to use it. Tony use Brad Pen for the break in Oil, first 500 miles, replacing it with the SWEPCO.

Here's what I've been using!Click to view attachment

Interesting how many people are running "Penn's oil", Sorry couldn't help myself.

On a serious note. I know a lot of people have noted that oil technology has changed a lot, even in recent years. I took a class at De Anza auto tech,(Circa 1987),taught by Dema Elgin,of Elgin cams fame. He told us DO NOT run Castrol GTX as it aerates far too much, and certainly do not run it in a turbo engine. He has a pretty impressive cam portfolio including Porsche so I've stuck with that advice.FWIW

There are a lot of good oils out there. Speaking in very general terms, the promise of synthetics when they were introduced was that their additive packages were superior to those in dino oil, so you could run more miles on an oil change. So, oil changes could be postponed for 10k miles or more, without seeing major loss of protection from the additives.

That being said, most of us who own these older cars don't put a lot of miles on a car in a year, and we usually change our oil once a year or at a predetermined mileage of about 3000 miles (plus or minus). So, for those of us that adhere to that type of schedule, a synthetic is not necessarily superior to a dino oil.

What DOES matter, for cars that use higher lift cams and rocker cam followers, is the amount of ZDDP in the formulation, whether it be dino or a syn oil. The ZDDP forces oil to remain on the cam lobes longer and provides an acceptable degree of lubricity. So, ZDDP is important. And, unfortunately, approximately 10 years ago, the US EPA and IDOT imposed new regs requiring that platinum catalytic converters must have a life double what had been the case previously. I don't remember the exact mileage, but cats were regulated to have a life of approximately 80K miles. When the Feds essentially doubled that requirement, the oil formulators found that zinc in the ZDDP would kill the platinum catalyst sooner than the regs permitted. So, to meet the new regs, oil formulators cut the ZDDP levels essentially in half on their oils.

Over the last 5-6 years, there has been an step change in the amount of valve train failures in high performance engines due to lubrication related issues, including Porsches.

Valvetrain design and metallurgies have been altered by the engine designers to compensate for the lack of ZDDP in oils. So, new engines should be OK. But, how about all the millions of engines out there that were designed to use high levels of ZDDP? We are essentially screwed.

But, there is a "work around". The reduced ZDDP level oils are those for road usage ONLY. So, if you find an oil that is for "off road usage", more than likely it has the old elevated levels of ZDDP. So the oils will be branded as "for off road use only" or as "racing oils", which means they are intended to be used on a track, where catalytic convertors are currently not required.

If you use 20W50, you can get a high ZDDP level synthetic in Mobil 1 formulated for motor cycles. Since current laws do not require cat convertors on motor cycles, oils formulated for them still have the proper level of ZDDP.

In addition to Brad Penn, racing and off road usage oils made by Motul, Joe Gibbs, and Mobil 1 are all good oils.

And, that is the short story!

Whatever synthetic is on sale. I've only used synthetic in the Jetta, since break in oil, and 168,000 and still going strong.................

The link above explained in excruciating detail that the author does not believe as much in the ZDDP requirements.
I'll leave that up the reader to decide for themselves.
On that thread is his list of top ~133 oils based almost entirely on his “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” which gets a rating in PSI.

Of those 133, I cut a couple that are discussed on these forums for use in type IVs.
Lucas, Joe Gibbs, Valvoline VR1, and Brad Penn, are the most discussed.
Below is the ranking in the author's tests, in cluding the PSI rating, the relevant chem comp (Zinc, Phos, Moly, TBN), and any notes.
I was also focused on racing oils and not so much daily drivers.

I found it interesting that based on just these #s (not saying I believe them) that the Valvoline VR1 is almost identical to Brad Penn, but has a higher rating by the author.

Obviously LOTS more info if you read the link above.

Ranked 8 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phosphorus = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
calcium = 2,929 ppm
TBN = 9.0
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

Ranked 13 5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 104,487 psi
The bottle says it is formulated specifically for high output GM LS engines, and that no ZDDP or additives required. This is by far, the best performing Joe Gibbs oil I’ve ever tested. It is at the very top of the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, and fell just short of the INCREDIBLE wear protection category.
zinc = 1610 ppm
phosphorus = 1496 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
calcium = 3515 ppm
TBN = 8.8
This oil contains sufficient amounts of the components required (detergent, acid neutralizer, etc) for normal change intervals in street driven vehicles. But, it has way too much zinc/phos for use in cat equipped vehicles. However, it is well suited for Race Cars, Street Hotrods and Classic cars.

Ranked 16 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phosphorus = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm
calcium = 2,707 ppm
TBN = 7.6

Ranked 100 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

NAPA

Here's a link from Covette forums (sorry guys) that seems very well done on oil rankings.
Barefoot
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-pe...-test-data.html

Here's another:
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

BP - shipped to my door for free when I buy on Amazon

Royal purple still....

Don't you just love discussions on this subject...

http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesands...eweditions/oil/

http://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/80559...-motor-oil.html

Click to view attachment

Stock 2.0 D-Jet. I run Quaker State Defy 10w-30, a synthetic blend. It has the required zinc and is available at Wal-Mart for about $17 per 5 quart jug. In time, I hope they develop a 20w-50 formula, or at least 10w-40.

Click to view attachment

For the last year I've been using the VR-1, the car seems to like it.

Why? Because I received two cases from a friend who put a 6 in his car, and is now running Mobil-1. That, and I'm cheap....

I've been running Delo 400 15w40 diesel oil all summer with no issue, quite cheap as well. This is in my T4 bug engine....well north of $10K to build.

Delo is good enough for Henry at Supertec, I doubt he builds a single engine under $25K.

Here is the list with the oils mentioned above added: Royal purple (not sure which one, there are many in the list), Delo 400 diesel, & quaker Defy.


Ranked 8 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phosphorus = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
calcium = 2,929 ppm
TBN = 9.0
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

Ranked 13 5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 104,487 psi
The bottle says it is formulated specifically for high output GM LS engines, and that no ZDDP or additives required. This is by far, the best performing Joe Gibbs oil I’ve ever tested. It is at the very top of the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, and fell just short of the INCREDIBLE wear protection category.
zinc = 1610 ppm
phosphorus = 1496 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
calcium = 3515 ppm
TBN = 8.8
This oil contains sufficient amounts of the components required (detergent, acid neutralizer, etc) for normal change intervals in street driven vehicles. But, it has way too much zinc/phos for use in cat equipped vehicles. However, it is well suited for Race Cars, Street Hotrods and Classic cars.

Ranked 16 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phosphorus = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm
calcium = 2,707 ppm
TBN = 7.6

Ranked 51 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm

Ranked 65 20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

Ranked 80. 15W40 ROYAL PURPLE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4 = 76,997 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

Ranked 87. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm

Ranked 92 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM, = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
moly = 80 ppm

Ranked 100 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

114. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) synthetic = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
moly = 189 ppm

Lebanese olive oil. Extra virgin. Cold pressed. Also excellent on bread and kibbie nayyi.

Click to view attachment