It's a vanagon westy conversion, but it should be close enough for the guys who have done the 914.
Just need some ballpark costs right now.


What's the best engine(s)? cost ballpark high/low?
What should be done on engine (belts, maintenance) while it out?
Conversion parts needed (KEP, etc.)?
Time to get everything done (with a equipped shop and "get 'er done" mindset)?
What am i missing?


I see on the net the pro full meal deal with a fresh rebuilt 1.8T VW engine is $12K, $6K for a very complete install kit (no engine) with new heater core and lots of new engine bits as well.
I'm trying to compare (ballpark) high/low costs.

Thanks

Hi Mark --

I'm currently doing a Suby-914 conversion, but I have completed two Vanagon conversions in the past: 1) Converted a 1982 Vanagon Westy Diesel to 1985 Golf 1.8 8-valve gasoline engine in 1998-99, and 2) Converted a 1986 Vanagon Syncro Westy to 1994 Subaru Legacy in 2003-04.

By far the Subaru conversion was superior set-up of the two, and Suby parts are easy to find and relatively cheap. Kennedy Engineering sells kits that include as little as you need to make it work, or as much as you need to even pass California emissions. I selected the minimalist option 'cause I'm a CSOB. I paid Kennedy ~$900 for the conversion parts, paid Small Car Performance about $500 for various parts, bought a wrecked 1994 Subaru Legacy sedan for $450 (with ~110k miles and sold unneeded parts for ~$500!), and then cheap-assed my way through the conversion by obtaining stuff on Ebay, Craigslist and newspaper ads (remember those?). I didn't skimp on the Small Car exhaust header, which I had ceramic-coated.

The plain-Jane Subaru EJ22 engine from the 1990-94 Legacy only has 137 hp, but it is the easiest-to-pass-smog conversion in California, but I don't know your rules in Canada. The higher horsepower options (EJ25 has 165hp, the EJ33 six-cylinder has 240hp, turbocharged range from 160 to over 300 from the factory) are much more spendy and complicated. Regardless, my 137-hp "monster" would pull my loaded Syncro Westy (two kids, wife, dogs, camping stuff, etc.) over the steepest parts of Donner Pass in the Sierra Mountains at 50 mph with slightly oversized tires... the stock VW engine was lucky to keep 30 mph on the steepest parts. And it was quieter, more reliable and got better fuel mileage to boot!

If you're considering this conversion, I strongly recommend you become a member of Yahoo Suby-Vanagon Group. Once a member, you can download all kinds of files that detail wiring harness cuts, pics of DIY modifications, etc. I bought the Syncro Westy in 2003 for $6500 and sold the Wasserleaker engine for $1100. I ended up selling that converted Syncro Westy for $10k in 2006, but now wish I woulda kept it (they're worth their weight in gold now!!!).

Cost of the engine depends on what you're looking for, and if you've got time to look for a replacement or need one NOW. From the time I located the wrecked Legacy until I had the converted Vanagon on the road took about three months of weekend work and some evenings. If I bought everything first and had it ready to go, it would probably have taken three weeks, but I spent a lot of time scrounging for parts and making my own parts (i.e., modified wiring harness, brazed my own coolant pipes, made my own brackets, etc.) I completed it in my driveway in Tahoe City, CA without any cover in the fall weather, so there were days of rain that I just stared at it through the window. I spent around $300 for a new OEM water pump, new seals/o-rings and new little connector hoses from Subaru -- and I'd definitely recommend doing that while the engine is out and easy to access.

Best of luck!

Geoff

Cool Geoff
That's sort of what I'm up to, one for myself but I also have a customer who wants me to do the same to his Westy. To speed up install time I'd interested to see what was ready built.
3 weeks =120 hours so I'm in the ballpark on labour.

If the westy is 25 years old + there is no smog here.

We have a JDM store local and they have ej25 for under $1k with 3 months. It's a complete engine but will it run like that or do I need bit (wiring and/or ECU) off a donor car?

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-a...QAdIdZ361531056

That's a sweet N/A choice. Tons of torque, too!

I have that same motor in my Legacy wagon. While it's out put on new head gaskets, timing belt, etc... They have a tendency to develop external leaks on the head gasket. Did mine in my driveway about 2 years and 20K miles ago.

Remember that the heater lines are the control for the thermostat... On all Subaru motors that means the heater lines supply hot water to the thermostat. That one catches some by surprise.

Haveing done the vanagon to suby conversion, I would stay with the 2.5 gen2 or 2000 and later. The dohc 2.5 are problamatic do to there funky rods and the use of a too small oil pump. I would stay away from the 2.2s and the 3.3 svx. 2.2 is short on power but if you get a doner one the heads and intake and wire harness can all be run on a 2.5 short block and makes a ton of tork. google frankenmotor subaru. The 3.3 have to much power for the gears in the vanagon boxes. They are a fabuuuuluuus motor just wrong for the gearing.

Venders. Rocky mountain westy or Kennedy for hardwear. Metric motors in Ut. did my harness but the yahoo group has step by step instructions. I would avoid Small car. I had issues that involved fire and his work! And his exahust WILL crack within the first year! Look at Stan's headers. The stinger is the wrong ecu for the vanagon conversion as there is no input for a knock sensor. Given the vanagon can change weight by 1200 lbs over night you need a knock sensor. Stock seems to work best.

$$. Jdm is a good way of going but you should be able to find a good motor with harness for under 1.5k or find a beat or highmilage 03 and do the heads and rering it cheap. Hardwear anouther 1.5k stuff is starting to pop up used
to so maybe cheaper. Dont pay for a reversed coolant manifold, stock is best, but you should get a turbo pump and plumb an extra line in to work the thermalstat as listed above.

With everything ready to go to swap out could be done in a weekend(2 6hour days or less) But with adding chevy springs to the front with Konis and 16 inch rims and tires , better gearing for the tranny, rear disks, bigger front brakes, new fuel lines, SS coolant lines, ect You could be at it for a year or more!!

Check out the samba as well.


And ya it is worth every penny!! thats why im putting the 3.3 in the 914.

Been reading up on this myself ... I have an '84 Westy that I'd like to pop a Subie into.

I live in Los Angeles County where smog regulations are pretty tough. From what I've read, the pre-'96 2.2L OBD-1 engines are CARB approved for this type of conversion here

I'm not in a hurry, so I'm still reading stuff ...

I have lots of time as well.
For me I'd have to sell my '67 bus first and for the customer it's a late summer/fall project. It's for his retirement 1-1/2 years from now, he and wife are planning a major North and maybe South America tour and wants a super reliable camper.


a914622 thanks for the advice. But what I don't want is to be spending a year on the other guys conversion. Bigger MB wheels would be used.
I'll check out the yahoo group.

On another way at this I was offered a 82 vanagon diesel which would give me a lot of gear for a VW conversion, but I don't think I want to go this route.
I could sell the stuff for a profit, but I also could be stuck with a lot of it.
Pics in this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=198453

I've had the potential plan to do a flat-6 WBX swap & related brake/suspension /cooling upgrades into our 88 Westy when the time comes, in order to make it a tow capable vehicle for my wife's "new" restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 travel trailer (sim. to Airstrams of the day).

But at the all in prices I'm seeing in these links everyone has posted above, it almost sounds like and early 996/986 flat 6 waterboxer & transaxle swap with the brake & suspension goodies from a wrecked one with good bones would be as good a engine swap for either 986>914 & 996>Westy/Vanagon as existing mid or rear engined hotter powerplants.

.... i.e.: $15-20k to have a shop do it right & warranty it for a reasonable time, as I don't want to fuch it up nor do I have the time & interest at this stage of life.

So it sounds like all of the mods needed to add a Suby FWD which sits on top of the side-slinger transaxle into a Vanagon with less mods/parts may be close to a wash on a more costly Porsche waterboxer 6 & have the Porsche transaxle capable of handling the added power.

And I really don't see much advantage to doing a 137 HP 2.2L WBX-4 Subie that would be CA smog legal for $10-15-20K with only a 6 month warranty.....

....when GoWesty sells a plug-n-play VW bored/stroked/built 2.1L Vanagon to 2.5L WBX-4 with 125 HP & 175 Lb/Ft TQ & a 4 year/48 mo. warranty for $7000 + $500 for the warranty = $7500 + whatever installation & coolant repair costs would be needed (& coolant redo probably needed anyway by that point) -

http://webmail.earthlink.net/wam/printable...mp;x=-124570940

So I don't get the Subagon thing, unless it's just to do it, or you want to play with swaps in your own garage. ....nothing against Mark doing this work for his client, but from my perspective in CA with our smog limits - I just don't get it.

For us - wanting something to tow my wife's trailer little 2800-3000 lb loaded TTW braked trailer, & she asking me if her Westy could tow it or modified to do so - I don't see an advantage in throwing $10-20k at the project, when we could buy a separate tow capable car/SUV in a 928 or early Cayenne for that money!!??

So Mark's topic has helped make my decision....
...well, for now anyway, cuz I still think a Porsche 996/997/991 flat 6 WBX + AT would be a cool Porshagon!!!!

I don't know about Westy conversion prices, Tom, but those seem really high. Subaru engines tend to be a quarter or less the price of Porsche, and the other conversion costs are about the same. But you're looking to tow a full-sized camping trailer with a Westy? Really? I didn't know people with VW vans towed anything big, but if that's the criterion then yes, you'd probably be better off with a Cayenne, or even a cheap used Econoline on the side. I have one for motorcycles and camping (it's lockable), and towing, and it works great.


EDIT: I just looked up conversion prices, and a turn-key 2.5 Subaru conversion is quoted at $9800, including the engine, at http://www.vanaru.com/prod2.htm. I don't know them, just the first hit in a google search, but they appear reputable. That's at least 165 N/A horsepower (more if you want it) and a LOT better reliability and longevity than a waterboxer. That WBX engine wasn't VW's finest hour.

Vanaru does great work! He is on the east coast if i rember right. There is a small cottage ind that has grown up around the vanagon swaps. Northwesty , small car , vanaru , tom shields.

But for 9 grand i would think you would get a factory zero miles long block. Last i checked they ran about 3500.00 from subaruparts,com. I was going to stuff the same engine in the 914 as in the vanagon but desided to go suby big block.

Of course you could always buy a none westy already done and swap out the drive train OR get a westy done and just wory about gas,destination and radio station.

jcl

Well IMHO towing a 3000lb trailer with a 3000lbs vanagon isn't very wise to begin with, no matter how much power it has. If I wanted to haul a big ass trailer I'd just buy a pick-up truck and trailer. (no offence to big ass trailer/PU owners)

Our old '78 westy was great, a daily driver that at a moments notice you could go nomad. We want a vanagon westy because I plan to add a bunk heater for winter camping and skiing. I want to be able to jump in and drive to the rockies for a ski week...in the summer I'm looking for totally remote areas ... but I'm cheap and I'll camp in walmart parking lots on the way if I had to.
I want a very small, totally reliable camper I can drive all the time including the winter. Most of the time it's just me and my two athletic tween kids, the customer is a active retired couple that plan to tour the US and maybe parts of Central America.

I have a '67 bus that I could make fit the bill, but it's to nice to ruin with Canadian winters. I'd rather see someone else enjoy the old bus and I don't give a crap if the Vanagon is totally toast in 15-20 years time.

DB & all....

Having owned our 88 Westy since new, I'm only too aware of it's design & materials shortcomings ...... read blown motor (rod thru case top) 1999 at about 130k & top end of the replacement 2.1L WBX4 in `05 at about 190k.
... it's now at about 240k & still running strong....for now!

So an imminent engine rebuild/replacement wasn't what drove me to look at any immediate Suby replacements, but more comparison to the GoWesty 2.5 option or an upgrade to a WBX6 or ?? - mostly driven by my wife's asking if she could tow "her trailer" with "her car" - the Westy.

Between my researching at the KEP & Small Car at the links in the 2nd post here above.....

http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/SubaruVanagonGen.aspx

http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch...&page_id=11

I'm seeing $6000 + $7450 for a low mileage Suby 2.2 - the one that KEP says has the California CARB/DMV waiver for conversion - that's $13450 + incidentals & options to get a CA smog legal Subagon of only 135 HP & only a 6 month warranty on work done in the PNW - 2000+ miles away from SoCal.

They do also list a 165 HP 2.5L Cal OBDI Special for about the same out the door total which I think requires the more complex DMV/CARB "Referee" route.

Unfortunately, here in CA we're more restricted on what we can do with engine swaps on the post-75 cars - vs 75 & older cars which are smog test/compliance exempted.

There is some guy out here who has a Porsche WBX6 powered Vanagon who tows an Airstream, which I've not seen, but he's a buddy of the vintage Airstream restorer here in Orange who did the PPI on our Avion.

I also looked at the Suby 3.0 & 3.3 WBX6 options to see if they were less or less hassle/cost to get Cal DMV/CARB (Cal Air Resources Board) approval, but it's neither straightforward nor cheap. Plus it really requires a transaxle upgrade for the WBX6 of any flavor, upgraded suspension, trailing arms, etc. & bigger disc brakes all around for both the power increase & any serious towing.

So like I said, I'd rather sink $10-15k in a 928S/S4 to tow our trailer, plus have a fun car to drive "the other 350 days/year" we're not towing!

So - tow this...
Click to view attachment

with something like these seems better to me....
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

rather than with our 88 Westy & keep it stock....
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment


BTW - the above was the original paint as of this summer, & it's currently getting a full exterior windows/trim/top-off repaint now, with all new seals & key trim bits. If you think the full factory rubber seals set for a 914 is expensive, try doing a Westy with the hard to find window seals with the groove for "chrome" trim today!

Mark,

The late WBX Westy like ours is 3670 lbs curb wt. & our owners manual oddly enough rates it to tow up to 2000 lbs of braked trailer (1320 unbraked). That would be foolhardy though, due to both limited brake capacity & a wheezy 95 HP motor!

Tow vehicle weight has nothing to do with what you tow, since a 6000 lb. pick-up/SUV can safely tow a 10-15000 lb trailer, as my neighbor does all the time with his diesel 3/4 ton Chevy Silverado "big-ass truck."

I agree with you on the big ass truck thing too, since we're not fans & a Cayenne mid-size SUV (4000 lbs with a 7800 lb towing capacity IIRC) is as far as I'm willing to bend.

The Vanagon's that I know of towing a big assed trailer

And before you go to the 928's towing capabilities, it's 3505 lb. curb weight & the Porsche factory rated them all to tow 3527 lbs of braked trailer - which you can see from the pix WAS in fact done in Europe. Porsche even sold the OEM towbar/hitch (ORIS mfgd) & electrical kit through dealers, and it's listed in the 928 PET parts manuals (downloadable pdf for free at the Porsche website).

Moreover, Porsche never spent the money to update the factory manual's towing capacity from the 4.5L 246 HP 1978 928, so the later 300-345 HP 928S/S4/GTS would be more capable. Although, the later 1985 factory ORIS hitch tag lists it as 4189 lbs TTW capacity.

The current 3900 lb Panameras have a factory towing capacity of about 4900 lbs. & offer an electrically retractable hitch (in Europe/ROW at least now).

Our 1960 Avion T20 has new in `07 electric brakes (as originally) & the factory & title list it at 2400 lbs. dry & probably 2800-3000 lbs wet & loaded as restored, so we're well within the 928's capabilities by the factory.

Cars & smaller vehicles can & do tow bigger heavier trailers, as the 1960 Avion brochure pic shows.

I don't have to worry about CARB. For emissions here over 25 years old is totally exempt.
I have a fun summer car and the wife has a SUV.
I'm actually thinking syncro for myself with winches, I plan to go places that rig will never ever see.

Sorry to get off track Mark, but my point was to your customer for whom you're doing this work, which you mention he wants full reliability & is obviously paying a shop (yours) to do the work for him.

So those mentioning the cost savings of DIY Suby conversions don't really fit your customer, since he's paying you.

My point is the Suby conversions I've seen only offer a 6-12 month warranty, & AFAIK they won't authorize that work at another shop while your customer is doing their round the country trip.

Whereas, GoWesty will sell their motors with a 4 year/48,000 mile warranty for an "extra" $500 over the motor, to be installed by a professional shop, & the warranty work/replacement can also be done at any professional shop that they approve. They do state that the coolant system needs to be brought back up to spec for the warranty to be effective, which is only smart for long travels anyway.

If I were in your customer's shoes, then I'd want to look into the GoWesty option for the warranty protection reasons alone.

And I am in his shoes - or will be, cuz I'd have my long time mechanics since 1975 at Hans Imports do my work, & even they now recommend the GoWesty rebuilds over other shops out there with only 12 month/12,000 mile warranties.

We traveled every year 1988-02 on a 4-6000 mile XC trip back east to IN/PA/OK or WA/OR/BC, etc. - which is how we got to 240k+/- when my wife only works 2 miles away & it's her DD. So I know about long trips in Westies, & I'd choose the 4/48 GoWesty over any other 12/12 Suby warrantied engine for the insurance of reliability! Nowadays we're only putting 3-5000 miles/year in CA/AZ/NM on the Westy, & are in our 60s, so that should last us just fine - even if we decide to go XC again.

I have no bones in the GoWesty operation, but have just been on the look-out for the inevitable "next engine needed" for our Westy! GoWesty is the FAT Performance or Raby/T-IV of Vanagon engines, but with a real warranty.

Here's some links to check it out....

Engine options -
http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=813

Warranty -
http://www.gowesty.com/view_page.php?name=...Engine_Warranty

Customer feedback on engines -
http://www.gowesty.com/view_customer_feedback.php?id=77

There's more at their website, but you can cruise around to get what you need, then call them to see if you can even do their shop program up in Canada, before you talk to your customer about them.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

It is still a Wasserboxer engine, which even the the most strident Vanagon owner I've ever met would readily agree was an inferior design and an underpowered engine for a vehicle that weighs as much as a Westy -- almost 5k pounds. The stock EJ22 Subaru ECU can provide simple troubleshooting codes by just connecting two plugs and counting the "blips," and the Select Monitor can be read by any Subaru specialist across the country to provide detailed sensor readings in real-time. I would be surprised if a Subaru shop in BFE couldn't figure out a problem with a Suby-powered Vanagon lickety-split.

I've put over 300k on Subarus and have always maintained my own vehicles. I've also owned two Westies, three other VW vans/Vanagons and countless other air- and water-cooled VWs (my parents sold their semaphore-equipped Oval VW Bug to pay my hospital bill when I was born!).

To each his own...

P.S.
I live in San Luis Obispo, which is less than 20 miles from GoWesty in Los Osos, CA. Yet there are three Subaru-powered Vanagons in my neighborhood!

Tow vehicle weight has nothing to do with what you tow.

Kind of does when your stuck in a mudhole a couple hundred miles from town.

Wow. Not in my world. A month ago I bought that very same engine for $120 on Craigs List. Sixty some thousand miles, a hundred and twenty bucks, a whole lot less than $6000. No warranty, but that's the cost of a WBX gasket set, so if I'm buying engines for that little a failure isn't costing me much, either. I don't know what else to say about that except we apparently shop at very different places.

You linked to the Kennedy site. In a paragraph above what you quoted they say:

"The Subaru engine has proved to be an excellent choice because it fits the compartment like it belongs there and it provides a good increase in horsepower. The Subaru Legacy 2.2 liter displacement is only slightly larger than the waterboxer but it has most of the modern high performance technology including a counterbalanced crank, four- valve design, port injection and a hot wire air flow meter. Kennedy Engineered Products manufactures 81 different kits that fit a hundred different engines to the Vanagon transaxle but nothing fits as well and runs as smoothly as the Subaru in this vehicle. The same basic kit fits 2.2, 2.5, 3.0, 3.3, and EJ 1.8 Subaru engines."

That should explain people's reasoning. And then "Subaru Legacy engines are economical to replace. If you can do the wiring and bolting, then the initial cost is comparable to the price for having a rebuilt VW waterboxer installed. The average wrecking yard price for a low mileage Subaru Legacy engine is about eight hundred dollars, which depends what state you are in."

So it seems to make sense for other people, but I'd imagine a lot of them are at a crossroads where they need to decide to put yet another WBX in there or a Subaru. With similar prices the more reliable Subaru has a clear and simple advantage. You're obviously not at that place, but wait a minute, back to the basics, a Vanagon was never intended to tow a trailer like that. It might even be possible, but I personally would never use a tow vehicle that light for a trailer that big. Not a 928, either. Horsepower isn't the question, tow vehicle weight and stability is. Anything more than a strong breeze will be pushing that rig all over the road. Heck, you know that, you already get the same thing in your Westy on windy days, before you even put a trailer behind it. With two slab-sided vehicles you're making a huge articulated metal kite. Not prudent.

Forget towing much with a Vanagon/Westy.....I have!

Strawman - as I said, we've owned our Westy since new & know it's WBX shortcomings - ALL of them - only too well after 25 years living with the car & driving 240k including full cross the USA trips every year! I'm also not questioning the reliability of Subarus, as they're great little cars & drivetrains.

However, folks like me & Mark's customer have a need for something reliable & easily repairable by a shop - not by me/ourselves - if it breaks. So I suggest that the GoWesty 48/48 warranty on a new motor is worth the lack of headaches for some of us a bit older & not wanting to Fuch around on a trip or even around town.

No Suby nor Porsche nor ANY conversion will warranty anywhere near that - 6/6 to 12/12 individual shop warranty is the best I've seen - even on VW WBX rebuilds.

A customer like me & Mark's are "buying" the full gorilla completed key-n-go project, & if reliability is a concern - which it usually is for folks like us - then the security of 48 months 4 years or 48,000 miles is twice as good as the original VW warranty waqs when we bought our van new!

DB - The Suby engine prices I was using were listed on that Small Car link for an already fully REBUILT/reconditioned Suby motors which they listed, with the lowest mileage at $5725.

Again, we're not comparing what the individual shade tree/home garage mechanic does, but rather a customer who is having a shop do all of the work. So the $120 core motor from evil-bay is not gone thru & not the full price to a customer like Mark's or myself.

Apples & oranges....

Mark - if you're going off-road & want to pull out of a mudhole, then go for a 3/4 - 1 ton pick-up with the biggest diesel V* with tons of torque. For the other 75-80
% of people who tow recreational trailers, the TV can & often is lighter than the trailer.

My neighbor has one of those 3/4 ton Silverado with the big diesel V8 which weighs about 6000 lbs, & he's towing a 15-20,000 lb 3 axle toy hauler fully loaded with a Jeep & 3-6 bikes out to the desert with no problems sand nor mudholes! That's a 3-4x trailer to TV weight ratio & it works fine!

Good Luck with your customer - it sounds like an interesting project, & an even more fun & interesting trip!

Tom
///////

Good luck Tom. All of my neighbors are cowgirls with horse trailers with sleeping quarters. The trailers are aluminum, but they usually haul at least two horses to play at barrel racing. They all use BIGASS trucks with goose neck hitches and they still have early repair bills. My friend hauls these little boxed in trailers all over the 5 state area as a living with a 4x4 new chevy and has already had both front hubs replaced under warranty. Towing trailers is expensive and the heavier the tow vehicle the better as far as reliability in my country boy experience. The old guys around here prefer the early 12 valve cummings diesels and manuals for every day trailer hauling of heavy stuff.

A very unsettling experience is tailwag where the rear vehicle starts trying to pass the front one. Once it starts in my experience the only way to stop it is by speeding up, try that in a underpowered tow vehicle.

My mom and dad were in the central texas travel trailer club for over 25 years and for what I remember the trailer never weighed more than the tow vehicle. My parents were also very conservative on speed.

I use a 91 4x4 3/4 ton 5.7 gas suburban with 1ton rear springs and rear ff axle. It is marginal for pulling my 1600lb electric brake car trailer with a 5000lb tractor or 8000lbs of concrete blocks for short distances.

How well does a warranty work on the side of the road three states away?

You have done a lot of studying though and I hope your traveling and camping experiences are good.

This is one of the reasons the VW 1.8 turbo engine conversion is in the running, except for the conversion bits any VW shop should be able to repair the vehicle. The van would have full documentation on all the special conversion only bits.



Not at all interested.

Mark, if that VW motor would be covered on a warranty at those VW dealerships & independents, then that would be another good option. I can't speak for your customer, but if so, & it's a comparable length 48/48 warranty, then it would fulfill my needs.

Charlie, that's what AAA 200 mile towing is for....on ANY vehicle!

In fact we were in San Diego in `05 moving our daughter out of her dorm for the summer when the Westy top end fried a valve & we had it towed 100+ miles up to my guy at Hans Imports in Huntington Beach for it's last top end rebuild!

AFAIK the GoWesty warranty covers the cost (maybe on a reimbursement basis) when you're on the road & you can have a breakdown serviced at a VW dealer or a qualified indy shop, but GoWesty may need to give you the okay on it in advance.

However, I haven't read the fine print on their warranty nor talked to anyone who has had to use it "off Rez" with them. I would certainly read it & check it out further with their past engine customers, & have my mechanic do so too (he looked at it preliminarily & AFAIK he's using their rebuilds now over his former LA engine shop with only a 12/12 warranty).

Of course in any case - you're depending on the warranty company staying in business & able to honor those warranties, which is another thing to check out, because I'm pretty sure that GoWesty & most others are using 3rd party warranty insurers to cover their work/products.

I'm not close to pulling the trigger on anything now, but I would certainly suggest Mark do so with his customer as one of the alternatives to explore for their adventure.

We also spend a week in beautiful Kingman AZ on an early trip in `90, when my wife dropped the AT into 1st instead of 2nd to make that big I40 grade & bent a valve. It was still under factory warranty back then, but it doesn't cover those types of user errors - nor would any warranty!

Charlie, you & I are both old enough to remember seeing all those cars towing travel trailers back in the `50s & `60s!

....& I do recall seeing many a jack-knife accident back in the days of Lucy & Desi towing! Note to self: make sure the wife doesn't load rocks into the trailer.

I agree, that any heavier use of a vehicle as a TV adds stress & advanced wear, just as does AutoX, DD, TT, DE & other tracking....heck even, street racing - which is which vehicles need maintaining & care. We may tow 2-4x 200-400 mile round trips a year in this vintage trailer plan of my wife's, so it won't be more than 10-15% of our 3-5000 annual use (& again, not in the Westy).

Both TVs on my "preferred list" are heavier than our TT at 2800-3000# loaded & that is less than the TVs, 928 is 3505# CW w/ 3527# towing capacity & the Cayenne S is 4800+# CW with a 7700+# TW max, & both have a similarly powerful 4.5 - 5.0+ L & 300+ HP & TQ motor. & with a great independent suspension & big brakes at all 4 corners. Certainly superior to

Our TT would be mated with a Hensley Cub WD/anti-sway hitch & the TV hitch reinforced for the torque of the WD hitch, in order to avoid that jack-knifing you mentioned. And yes, my Dad had taught me that trick to "speed up" to out run the jack-knifing trailer - rather than what most people do - hit the brakes.

Happy & Merry to All!

PS - One of the reasons I decided on getting my used 914 in 1975 after college - over an older `60's 911 or 912 - was it would be my only car & DD, and I'd have to use it on long trips. So I figured that the 914's VW 411/412 based Type IV could be serviced anywhere in the country - even deep in the heart of Charlie's TX - by a VW dealership or independent. In 10 years of DD & trips over 130k miles 12/75 - 5/85, my `73 914-2.0 NEVER failed to get me home & able to get serviced by my guy Hans since `75! Once the clutch cable broke just as I got home from a 1000+ mi trip up north, & I was ready to move it into the garage after unpacking, so I pop-started in 3rd & drove the 1 block to where Hans Imports was from my HB apartment in those days! Cannot beat that kind of reliability!

Hey Mark & other Vanagon/Westy types -

Not Subie related & so somewhat OT, but interesting to Vano/Westy owners - just for fun info., so enjoy!

I don't know if you've ever seen these VW instigated flat-6 WBX6 versions before, which Oettenger/Okrasa eventually bought the rights & took over engine production from VW, & offered them as aftermarket mod kits to Euro Vanagons. I like the bigger/later 180 HP 3.7L version with 226 TQ. There are a few imported over here to North America.

It was started as a VW engineering project to basically make a WBX6 version of their 2.1L WBX4 (so many parts interchanged), in order to better compete against more powerful USA & Euro mini-van makers' cars, but VW decided not to build them - & this was in addition to the Porsche B32 ABX6 3.2 version, which was also to offer a flat-6. Too bad, cuz they probably would've sold many more Vanagon WBX6's vs. the Dodge, Ford & GM alternatives here!

The Oettenger conversion included: larger 4 wheel disc brakes, bigger tires/wheels, heavier duty cooling system, HD AT-transaxle & AT cooler, larger gas tank, body skirting kit & the bits for the selected WBX6 motor, as in the pix below.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

.

More info can be found at these links & by googling for: Oettenger, WBX6, etc.:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=115681

http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Custom_Cars...-Kombi-20071008

http://www.sleepydubs.co.uk/VW-T25-T3-History.html

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2557

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...asc&start=0

http://achtuning.com/tag/oettinger-vanagon/

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...asc&start=0

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...asc&start=0

http://insyncro.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/v...ettinger-wbx-6/

http://www.jokeristi.it/e107_plugins/forum...topic.php?45514

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2557

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpecifi...nfo/special.htm

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/oettinge...topic21911.html

http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_%28T3%29

Hi again Mark & All,

I just wanted to clarify based on a PM someone sent me, that I was just offering the above VW/Oettenger co-designed flat-6 WBX6 info as a FYI for Mark, knowing that he's a VW'er & mechanic who might find it interesting, as well as anyone else reading about alternative Subie engines for Vanagons/Westies.

However, I did wait until this thread died down for a couple of weeks & Mark got his input on Subie's for his customer, before I added that FYI stuff - this Oettenger WBX6 thing was just of interest, & not a viable DD/XC option for anyone but a collector.

It was not intended to hijack this, but just to offer some interesting info. on the OT Vanagon-Subie motors topic.

Merry & Happy
Tom
///////