Hi Guys,

I'm a new member. I bought my 914, which was/is my first car, in 1985. I drove it as a summer car from 85-95. I would bet that I only put 10,000 kms on it over that time, if that. Then my education and career got in the way and it hasn't been licensed since. It was driven to the spot where it now sits (in a shed on the farm where I grew up, a couple of hours away from me) in 2001 after having not been registered since 1995. I've finally reached a point in my life where I can take time to work on cars. I started doing my own maintenance on my 928 a couple of years ago and love working on it (as long as I don't screw anything up). So, I'm just beginning but am eager to learn (yes, I can already see these coming : )

I'll attach pics of the car in its current condition below. I apologize in advance for the scores of questions that I will be asking in the coming months and years. I've been reading through a number of topics and see how helpful folks are on this forum, which helps to take much of the anxiety out of taking on this project.

This is going to be a long-term project as I'm still busy with work etc. My goal for this summer is to try to get it running and get everything working. Then over the winter develop a specific plan for restoration and give'er next summer. I spoke to the previous owner recently. He has owned many 914s and couldn't recall any specifics of this car. At the time I bought it I seem to recall someone saying that it came as a 1.7 but they had put a 1.8 into it. But the PO didn't recall changing the engine. So, question #1, how can I tell if it is a numbers matching car?

The car was mices free until last winter, and then last summer when I looked at it I found a couple of nests . So, my first order of business in the spring will be to don a P100 respirator and clean out the mouse remnants. I'll throw out the aftermarket carpet I had put in. I've seen on this forum somewhere that there are OE looking carpet kits available. I'm pleasantly surprised by the available of parts for these cars.

Problems with the car that I recall from when I last drove it:

1. when I would drive on a dusty gravel road dust would bellow in from under the dash (maybe rust holes in the longs and heater pipes?).
2. I think the car had been hit in the left rear corner. The left rear wheel always had a slight wobble to it. Maybe needs new wheel bearing? The trunk back corners never sat perfectly flat, and the rear left fender always had an odd bubble area (filler?) by the bumper. I had it repainted and the bubble was still there ). Rear bumper is black, front chrome. All indications for trauma to the back.
3. At the very end of driving it, the speedo started to make a whining noise. I think the car has about 86,000 kms on it.
4. The brake pedal had lost some tension and so after applying, I would pull it back with my foot.
5. The shifter was always a little bit sloppy.
6. The windshield wipers were never very good; couldn't keep up with a strong rain (this may be normal?)
7. Every spring, after sitting all winter, something would seize in the clutch and it wouldn't work. The technique my Dad figured out was to put the car in reverse and start it up. After the car would move back a bit the clutch would come free and work fine??
8. The only thing I ever had to have done to the car was move the fuel pump to the front due to vapor lock. It never let me down after that.

Any thoughts and advice you have on starting the process of fixing her up will be most welcome. Here she is:


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Hi Doug

First: Welcome to 914 World. This is my opinion and only my opinion: This car may very costly to get it the way you want. The body has a lot of rust and you did not show us the interior. The motor and drivetrain needs a lot of work. I am not trying to discourage because you sound really excited about working on the car but I want you to know that up front what you are facing. Just a thought, have you considering purchasing another but good running 914 and use this car for parts. You may come way out ahead and save a lot of money and heartbreak with this decision. This is my two cents.

Looking through the dust, it looks like a 1.7 but I could be wrong.

If you will look at my car (below link) you will see what I have done during the past 18 months. I have spent over $5,000 parts and labor and I had a good 914 to start with. No body work, no painting, no rebuild.

Good luck and welcome again.

Terry

, but it is your first car.....if the memories are there go for it...that is what I did.

Thanks, guys, for the welcome. It is disheartening that you think it's that bad. The resto threads I've looked at suggested to me that this one was in comparatively good shape/all there. But, I have no experience and can imagine that when it's disassembled it will be another story. What are the big costs associated with this? I'm planning to do all of the metal work myself. Yes, I am a novice welder. Just bought a MIG before Christmas and have been having fun practicing. My first project has been to refurbish my 33 year old 928 muffler; learned lots about burn through etc.

My attachment is sentimental, but budget constraints put a limit to how far sentimentality can take me.

Doug

Please don't get discourage just because of my opinion. There may be others on this forum that will say go for it. Your welding skills will definitely be a plus. There is someone on this forum that has been working on his car with a college budget and his car was just painted and it looks great. Follow your dream and heart.

Terry

I see a crusty battery tray and some rust bubbles... Where are you seeing "a lot of rust"? Without more/better pictures, we don't really know how bad this car is and its a little soon to be calling this car a goner Some more pictures underneath the car will tell more of the story.

Need pictures of the longs, trunks, hell hole, floor boards, etc. to see the full extent of the rust. Only then will you know what you are facing!

Terry, no worries. I'm a firm believer in the value of a good dose of reality.

I have one or two pics of the interior I will search for tonight and post.

I don't have any pics of underneath. Next time I'm at the farm I'll take some pics and will post. It's definitely going to have significant rust as it's never been touched under there.

Look for the thread on my car (started by scottyb) and you can see how bad "typical" rust can actually get. More cars on this site than we would like admit have similar issues...they just don't know it.

Here are all of the additional pics that I have of its current condition. Now I'm really curious to see what it's like underneath. I won't take pics of the floor boards until I clean out the interior, but that won't happen until the spring; not looking forward to that job. You can see in the pics how the mices, which I hate to pieces, have brought in kernels of wheat to munch on, and undoubtedly left lots of remnants behind. The sheets of fabric softener were intended to keep them out. The glove box is in good shape, just opened. It always had that GM red light in the back pad. Can't wait to put a proper one in there.


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The interior does not look bad at all!

Those damn rats can chew wires too! It is amazing where they build nests.

Did you relocate the fuse box to the front trunk so you wouldn't keep kicking the fuses out of it or was that done by someone else? (or is that just a normal second fuse box arrangement that I cannot remember since I haven't seen my car bone stock since 2008)

Sentimentality plays a big part in a lot of these cars. My '71 was my first car and I've had it since new so it will always stay in the family. I have two boys who have inherited the "car" gene from me and their grandfather ( a previous 914 944 owner) so I'm in the process of restoring a '73 2.0 I've known since 1974 since it was owned by one of my best friends growing up. We autocrossed against each other throughout the '70's. When he died of a rare illness, his widow gave me the car to bring it back to life like he had wanted.
Spent a lot more than the car will ever be worth but it's worth it to us, and it will look amazing when done.

The day we brought it home from the body shop. Have a set of Fuchs from Weidmans waiting...Click to view attachment

Welcome Doug!
Do not be discouraged at all. Take your time and do it when you have the time and money! I still have my second car and my first Porsche. 32 years I think? You may find the task at hand daunting at times. You may never run out of things to do to the car but if you can get it to run then drive thats a start. Enjoy it. You have something that many of us do not have, we just dream of owning our first car.

Two great p-cars - the 914 & 914+14!

I hope it will clean up nicely. The dash is cracked by the ash tray, the seat has a bad seam, and the driver's window handle needs the black plastic trim piece. I hope the mice haven't done more damage this winter. The wiring scares me more than the rust. I don't know much about electrical and I know mice like to chew on wires .

No, the fuse box came like that. I never had to change a fuse in the car. I always wondered why they did that. Was it a common problem in the stock location?

It becomes an addiction!


Realistically, the rust you can see is only 20-30% of what is there. You will find the underside of all the painted panels showing bubbles to be much worse than they appear. This does not mean it cannot be fixed. It just means you have much more rust repair than you see.

In my opinion, fixing it yourself is the only economical way to do it. At a glance, from your pictures, I would expect to pay a shop $10k in labor and parts to fix that car. Then you would still have to paint it (California prices). I may be cheaper to find a nice California or Arizona roller and import is to Canada. Only you can decide what your time and budget will allow.

Yeah, paying a shop to do the work is out of the question for me. And, I really want the experience of doing it myself. I never thought I'd take a car apart, fix it, and (hopefully) put it back together. I'm sure there will be lots of frustration, but it sounds like fun to me.

The only problem with the original location is it was easy to dislodge a fuse when you got in the 914. The plastic fuse cover usually broke and would not stay on.

Interesting, thanks. Can you tell by the pic if the fuse box that's bolted to the fender well is the original one? There's also a second one that cannot be, I think it has three fuses, and it's just a piece of painted plywood, IIRC.

I don't think your upside down. The rusted front lid can be changed. There are lots guys on the forum with wiring harnesses they can toss in a box and ship to you. There are sources for rust repair panels. If I were you I would get a bunch of good storage bins and start taking the car apart in preperation for repair.

Thanks, Rick, for your encouragement, and thanks all for the stories of the role of sentimentality in some of these cars.

Rick, are you saying that it's better to just find a replacement hood than to fix the rust in the existing one?

Something I've been wondering about as I read through resto threads concerns the welding warping the chassis and then door gaps changing. It seems some guys use a rotisserie, some use jack stands, and some are able to leave the car loaded on its suspension. If one does the latter, does one still need to use some kind of bracing or does having the car sitting on its wheels keep it in shape? Is it possible to do all of the metal work with the car on its wheels, and then remove the suspension components?

Rick, are you saying that it's better to just find a replacement hood than to fix the rust in the existing one?

Hell yes!!!!

Doug:



I completely understand the sentimental attachment to your car. A lot of patience and a decent amount of ca$h can bring it back to its former glory. Multiple times I thought about bailing out and buying a rust free tub, but couldn't bring myself to do it.

If there is a lot of rust on key structural areas (longs, etc) you absolutely want to brace the car to keep the door gaps right. I don't think it matters much whether its on a rotisserie, jack stands or on wheels.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Bob

Are there instructions for how to properly brace a 914? Also, are there instructions for how to build a car dolly that would allow metal work but also support the tub in the correct position?

There are tons of build and restoration threads here. Many that were in much worse condition then your car. I say go for it! Especially since it was your first car. Make it the way you had always dreamed. It will be worth about 8-10K all cleaned up and running. Priceless to you at that point.

Hi Doug.

Get it running and drive it a few times before you tear it down too far. Once you get hooked again, well...

I think that's a good plan. I'd like to know everything works before disassembling it so that it will (maybe) be less frustrating when putting it back together. I.e., knowing that it will work and I've just put something back incorrectly.

Doug:

I don't know if anyone has written up formal instructions, but most restoration build threads on this site will show some type of body bracing to give you some ideas.

I agree with getting it running before teardown...that way, you will have a better idea of additional parts you need for re-assembly.


Bob

Hi Doug,

Got your PM. I plan on putting insurance on the silver '74 this summer. This is the car I bought in Muskegeon, Michigan and drove home. It is an unmolested 914 so you can study where everything really belongs. The only thing out of place is the battery. The PO (unannounced) re-located the battery to the rear trunk as the original battery shelf had failed. After the weather turns nice we can get together for a ride. Drop me a note after the street cleaners have been out and remind me, (age = high - memory = low).

Then you can have a look at my black one that is still on the rotissere. You can then see an example of a worst case (possibly) starting point you might be looking at. There are, like it has been said, lots of examples of rebuilds with tons of information and encouragement here on the world. Kudos to all these people here. I have had many different cars over the years and I don't think there are that many imports that someone is actually reproducing new body parts.

Jim

That would be terrific, Jim! Great that you have one that is unmolested. What motor is in the 74? I've never seen a car on a rotisserie in real life; that will be cool! I will PM you in the spring (my memory is not what it used to be either, but this I won't forget ).

For Easter weekend I went to the farm to visit my family and did a little work on the 914. I'd like to say I was pleasantly surprised, but I was unpleasantly shocked by the condition of the car . I began by removing the rocker panels. The body shop had riveted them at the door sill so I had to take them off with a hammer and screw driver. I'd never seen the longs, and they are a disaster. Filled with mouse nests (you can spot one in one of the pics . I got as much out as I could reach, but I'm sure there is much more in there. I also removed as much of the mouse remnants as I could from the interior and removed the carpet and vinyl that was covering the structural members in the floor pan area. I didn't get a chance to take a screwdriver to the floors and inner longs. The inner longs looked pretty good, but the screwdriver test will tell the tale. The doors open and close as well as they ever did, which is not perfectly but they do work.

Below are pictures that are not for the faint of heart. I'm hoping that the gurus here will study them and give me their opinion on the feasibility of fixing her up. I know I can get new sheet metal from RD for the longs etc., but I'm worried that the metal is rotten where I'd be welding the new panels to. Is the general rule, if it doesn't punch through with a good tap from a flat head screwdriver then the metal in that spot is probably okay?

Here are the pics of the brutality:

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Doug:

Sorry to see these pics. It looks at least as bad as the train wreck I bought about 4 years ago. I have a build thred on this site so you will get an idea of what you are in for - mouse nests & all.

There is hope...and I do not mean to discourage you...quite the contrary, as I like seeing teeners come back to life. If you are looking for a project, you got it! If you are looking for a teener to drive and enjoy with minimal work, I would bail out and look elsewhere.

It's becomes all about sentimental value for you. This project will try your patience and put a strain on your wallet.

Good luck with your decisions & keep us posted.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. I did a scan of the build thread page and didn't see one with your name as the initial poster. Can you please let me know the title or provide a link? I'd like to check it out.

I have to think

Here, here! With all the amazing rebuilds on here. I can't believe there could be a single naysayer on this site. Take this car and kick some a55! the discuragers must have weak stomachs when it comes to rust. Build your dream man!

Lots of rust repair/repalcement panels to save this one. Probably best as a rotisserie candidate, and would require sentimental value to justify.

Whats this engine support bar? Not stock.

Here is a link to my build thread.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=123957&hl=

Hmmm...what you see is how it came when I bought it in 85. In fact, I suspect the longs were already rusty back then.

Does anyone know if these empty connectors are the ones for the additional gauge cluster?

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Those connections are for the center console gauges. All 914s are pre-wired to that point.

Good luck with this car, It will be a long road, but just the journey will be worth it.

Bob,
I checked out some of your thread, amazing work. If more had your skill a lot of these teeners would be saved instead of scrapped.

Dave

I'll be perusing Bob's thread as soon as I get a chance.

In the pic above of the right rear trailing arm, is that a rust hole or an intentional drainage hole?

Looks like a pipe?
OOCH!

Are you referring to the engine mounting bar?

Yes. That's not stock from any year 9 1 4 (trying to bypass the April Fools Filter) and probably is not good news...

--DD

Yikes! What does that imply? The engine looks to me to be a stock 1.7L.

I tried to locate the engine numbers when I was there but I didn't see them. I was in a rush to try to get as much mouse feces out before I had to leave. I'm curious, what is supposed to connect to the hole on the right side of the engine tin that is plugged with foam (circled in red in the pic below).

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Also, is the hole in the trailing arm (also circled in the pic below) supposed to be there?

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